eburgio
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Location: SF, CA Joined: 07.18.2011
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The Hawks do not use an umbrella. If they used an umbrella like say Pittsburgh they would score considerably more.
If Toews or Hossa took the puck from down low cut towards the crease and started ripping low hard shots or stuffing the puck then they would score considerably more. If Kane moved off the boards, walked to the middle of the circle and started ripping shots they would score considerably more on the power play.
They play this BS back door home run crap that is maddening. Have zero movement down low, through the crease or at the blue line. That is zero player movement and pucks directed towards net movement. And to be perfectly honest I think the guys on the ice are idiots for continuing to do the same stuff game in and out that doesn't work. It is absurd. At a certain point you need to be a player if the stick is on your blade (Toews, Hossa, Kane) and stir stuff up.
An umbrella looks like this and it works real good:
- fattybeef
I love pictures. The one thing you haven't addressed is their zone entry. Hard to set up any scheme when you can't with the faceoff or enter the zone cleanly |
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AL SEC0RD
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: Chicago Stadium Joined: 09.19.2005
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The reason that the backdoor Sharp play used to work is the defenseman in front of the net would be so concerned that Toews was going to stuff it in that he'd commit to Toews coming off the goal line, this would leave Buff (or whomever) open in front of the net, forcing the weak side winger to come collapse on him, which would leave the back door cut wide open for Sharp. Part of the problem is Toews (or Hossa or Kane) seem to be more reluctant to take the puck right to the blue paint to force the defense to react. If they insist on running the same scheme, it should be Hossa and Seabs on the point, Kane on the half boards, Toews on the goaline popping out, and Shaw in front (needs to be a righty) - rollpards19
Absolutely correct--nobody is taking the puck to the net hard like you describe. That backdoor play hasn't worked in forever. |
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eburgio
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Location: SF, CA Joined: 07.18.2011
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The Oilers run a 1-3-1 (like the Caps) and what the Hawks should run. Its the best way to score on today's PK's, but you need shooters, and the Hawks don't have a one timer guy - rollpards19
I was discussing this with someone yesterday. Who on the Hawks has a cannon of a slap shot, especially on the Power Play? Hossa and Sharp would be the best answers, but I still don't think they have howitzers, like Buff did. |
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rollpards19
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: Where ever doesn't get me hit, IL Joined: 05.03.2012
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I agree with you for the most part.
The thing is, you could make the argument that the Hawks got INSANELY lucky in game 1. Oduya's tying goal was a fluke that obviously won't happen 99/100 times. Then in the OTs the B's had chance after chance to end it. I know they didn't, but the pucks gotta start going their way eventually.
So there is a tad cause for concern if you use the argument that the B's still outplayed the Hawks in game 1 as well as game 2.
As you said, these are the 2 best teams and it's still going to be an exciting series but it could also explain why there is negativity here. It's one thing to dominate one game then drop the second but both games in this series leaned in the B's favor IMO. - teh_HAWKZ
You're argument kinda collapses when you say pucks have to start going the Bruins way, but the Hawks goal was insanely lucky. You get lucky bounces when you're team directs 51 more shots on goal than the other team. The Hawks dominated the first half of game 2, then things were even, and the Bruins got the better of the third and OT. And since most people hate when I mention possession numbers and say the score is the only thing that matters (like when I used those numbers in game 1 as a reason they were going to come back, and they did) the score of the series is as even as even gets |
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AL SEC0RD
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: Chicago Stadium Joined: 09.19.2005
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I love pictures. The one thing you haven't addressed is their zone entry. Hard to set up any scheme when you can't with the faceoff or enter the zone cleanly - eburgio
I think you hit the nail on the head--what zone entry? Maddening. The Bruins have four guys lined up on the blueline daring the one guy to try to beat them. The Blackhawks are so disinclined to dump it in and go work their tails off to get it. |
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philco28
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: Mississauga, ON Joined: 12.06.2011
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Agreed. I would submit that the odds of either team taking both games in Boston are about even...both can if they play up to their potential. - andru2797
Both for us would be Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr8t
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andru2797
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: Laval, QC Joined: 10.11.2011
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I was discussing this with someone yesterday. Who on the Hawks has a cannon of a slap shot, especially on the Power Play? Hossa and Sharp would be the best answers, but I still don't think they have howitzers, like Buff did. - eburgio
Not so much about that as the vision and puck distribution on the PP...Brian Campbell was the difference there for the Hawks IMO. |
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philco28
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: Mississauga, ON Joined: 12.06.2011
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I think playing on the road can help this team, simplify and play solid team D. - droe411
Usually has in the past...the Detroit games 3-4 the exception
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rollpards19
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: Where ever doesn't get me hit, IL Joined: 05.03.2012
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I was discussing this with someone yesterday. Who on the Hawks has a cannon of a slap shot, especially on the Power Play? Hossa and Sharp would be the best answers, but I still don't think they have howitzers, like Buff did. - eburgio
Can Sharp take a one-time slapshot? I know Toews and Kane can't, but can't remember Sharp ever doing it. Hossa's is pretty good, but can't wire it like an Ovie, Malkin, Stamkos, or Yakupov |
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philco28
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: Mississauga, ON Joined: 12.06.2011
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It doesn't have very much to do with mental mindset and a lot more to do with moving your feet for 60 minutes and clearing the puck out of your own zone as fast as possible to disturb the Bruin forecheck. If they don't do that, the defence corps gets ground into mush. - RickJ
Playing in a very hostile environment is IMO a lot about being strong mentally. If Boston scores 1 or 2 early...all the foot moving in the world won't mean shhhhit.
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philco28
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: Mississauga, ON Joined: 12.06.2011
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eburgio
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Location: SF, CA Joined: 07.18.2011
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Can Sharp take a one-time slapshot? I know Toews and Kane can't, but can't remember Sharp ever doing it. Hossa's is pretty good, but can't wire it like an Ovie, Malkin, Stamkos, or Yakupov - rollpards19
In 2011, they had a pretty good thing going on the PP with Sharp and Seabrook up top. Sharp took a lot of one timers from about the top of the left circle and that seemed to be reasonably effective. |
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Lash8
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: Chicago, IL Joined: 07.30.2012
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I love pictures. The one thing you haven't addressed is their zone entry. Hard to set up any scheme when you can't with the faceoff or enter the zone cleanly - eburgio
+1. The Hawks tend to have a hard time getting set up in any scheme, especially with how aggressive the Bruins' PK forwards have been. If they could get set up properly, though, running a 1-3-1 might counter that a little. There's a ton of space between the forwards and defenders in such an aggressive penalty kill, but they can't seem to get a player and the puck into that space at the same time.
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philco28
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: Mississauga, ON Joined: 12.06.2011
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People on this board have a highly annoying habit of getting too discouraged after every single loss and micro analyzing every little single aspect of every single mistake like it is the end of the world.
Two best teams in the league. Both went to overtime. Both have made each other pay for mistakes. Both have missed making the other team pay.
Really could not have scripted a better finals.
Times of absolutely brilliant hockey from both teams. Times of lackluster play by both teams. It has been a joy to watch and this team has been great to watch for most of the year.
Unless Crawford gets chased or a major injury happens then this is going to be a tight and exciting series. I suggest y'all start enjoying it for what it is instead of getting pissy for what the Hawks may not be. Because.Its.The.Cup. - fattybeef
Good post Fatty...but don't tell Toronto Star legend in his own mind Damien Cox this...he thinks 'the finals are DRAGGING ON.'
But before i go any further lemme say this...
PHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHUCK HIM.
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AL SEC0RD
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: Chicago Stadium Joined: 09.19.2005
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Playing in a very hostile environment is IMO a lot about being strong mentally. If Boston scores 1 or 2 early...all the foot moving in the world won't mean shhhhit. - philco28
And you know what, keeping your feet moving is a function of mental toughness too--a determination to not be lazy, to stay focused, to continue competing, to what you have to do. To carry that out is mental. |
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John Jaeckel
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: www.the-rink.com Joined: 11.19.2006
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Agreed on the second part...the Hawks game is not finesse, it's speed and quick transition. If they play to those two strengths, Boston can't match them. - andru2797
Transition wil only work if their defensemen have some breathing room and confidence—which only setting a physical tone with a team like Boston will provide. Speed will not be a factor if all the forwards are pushed outside and lose pucks along the boards.
If they don't set a physical tone, if they are unwilling to go to and stay in front of the net, they will not win this series. If they do, then, and only then, the transition will open up.
Why is Kane typically a ghost early on in series and sometimes a huge factor late—every year it seems like? Because the opponent has been worn down. Physically.
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John Jaeckel
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: www.the-rink.com Joined: 11.19.2006
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I think you hit the nail on the head--what zone entry? Maddening. The Bruins have four guys lined up on the blueline daring the one guy to try to beat them. The Blackhawks are so disinclined to dump it in and go work their tails off to get it. - AL SEC0RD
But they're a "speed and transition" team, Silly Al. They shouldn't be expected to play Neanderthal hockey!!
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philco28
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: Mississauga, ON Joined: 12.06.2011
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AL SEC0RD
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: Chicago Stadium Joined: 09.19.2005
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Transition wil only work if their defensemen have some breathing room and confidence—which only setting a physical tone with a team like Boston will provide. Speed will not be a factor if all the forwards are pushed outside and lose pucks along the boards.
If they don't set a physical tone, if they are unwilling to go to and stay in front of the net, they will not win this series. If they do, then, and only then, the transition will open up.
Why is Kane typically a ghost early on in series and sometimes a huge factor late—every year it seems like? Because the opponent has been worn down. Physically. - John Jaeckel
Every once in awhile you see determination in all three zones from Kane, but only once in awhile. You tell me that's not mental--that's where the toughness comes in. The willingness to stick your nose in there--like Shaw, like a Marty St. Louis (both small guys). If Kane had half their guts . . . . |
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andru2797
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: Laval, QC Joined: 10.11.2011
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In 2011, they had a pretty good thing going on the PP with Sharp and Seabrook up top. Sharp took a lot of one timers from about the top of the left circle and that seemed to be reasonably effective. - eburgio
Perhaps the shoulder is an issue there. |
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eburgio
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Location: SF, CA Joined: 07.18.2011
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+1. The Hawks tend to have a hard time getting set up in any scheme, especially with how aggressive the Bruins' PK forwards have been. If they could get set up properly, though, running a 1-3-1 might counter that a little. There's a ton of space between the forwards and defenders in such an aggressive penalty kill, but they can't seem to get a player and the puck into that space at the same time. - Lash8
I was thinking about how the Bruins (or any team, really) stack up the line against the hawks on the PP. As silly as this sounds, I thought it would be funny(and effective?) if the Hawks approached it like the WR's in Arena Football. You know how they get like a 15 yard head start on the snap, and hit the line of scrimmage with speed.
How about you have a designated QB bring the puck up (Kaner) and then you have two other forwards barrelling a$$ into the zone, but it changes every time. Maybe it's Kaner, Toews and Bickell on one rush and next time you get Kaner, Toews and Keith, always leaving 1-2 guys back.
Of course, they should be doing an iteration of this anyway, so perhaps I just wasted your time w/my brilliant ideas. |
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AL SEC0RD
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: Chicago Stadium Joined: 09.19.2005
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But they're a "speed and transition" team, Silly Al. They shouldn't be expected to play Neanderthal hockey!! - John Jaeckel
I know--uggh. Why are the Blackhawks' strengths and hard work/determination/toughness mutually exclusive!? They don't have to be. |
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andru2797
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: Laval, QC Joined: 10.11.2011
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Transition wil only work if their defensemen have some breathing room and confidence—which only setting a physical tone with a team like Boston will provide. Speed will not be a factor if all the forwards are pushed outside and lose pucks along the boards.
If they don't set a physical tone, if they are unwilling to go to and stay in front of the net, they will not win this series. If they do, then, and only then, the transition will open up.
Why is Kane typically a ghost early on in series and sometimes a huge factor late—every year it seems like? Because the opponent has been worn down. Physically. - John Jaeckel
As AL SECORD said, with Kane I believe it's more mental than physical. I think whenever Kane plays better defense and dogs the puck more, he starts producing more. |
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rollpards19
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: Where ever doesn't get me hit, IL Joined: 05.03.2012
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Transition wil only work if their defensemen have some breathing room and confidence—which only setting a physical tone with a team like Boston will provide. Speed will not be a factor if all the forwards are pushed outside and lose pucks along the boards.
If they don't set a physical tone, if they are unwilling to go to and stay in front of the net, they will not win this series. If they do, then, and only then, the transition will open up.
Why is Kane typically a ghost early on in series and sometimes a huge factor late—every year it seems like? Because the opponent has been worn down. Physically. - John Jaeckel
Agree on the overall points, but disagree that only physical play will open up transition. The key is the first pass, when they hit it, they fly out of the zone as "the five man unit" they love to talk about, and are off to the races. Now one could say the ability to make a good first past is predicated on not being pounded physically, but the Hawks can't really make the Bruins stop hitting them unless they start moving the puck so well that the Bruins coaching staff starts telling their guys to be less agressive because they're getting burned in transition. Where the physicality comes into play in terms of transition is pounding their D so they are less likely to make a good first pass and the really good puck pursuit players on the Hawks can capitalize on turnovers, but I view those as separate issues, and if you didn't then I'm probably not making a lot of sense |
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Lash8
Chicago Blackhawks |
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Location: Chicago, IL Joined: 07.30.2012
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I was thinking about how the Bruins (or any team, really) stack up the line against the hawks on the PP. As silly as this sounds, I thought it would be funny(and effective?) if the Hawks approached it like the WR's in Arena Football. You know how they get like a 15 yard head start on the snap, and hit the line of scrimmage with speed.
How about you have a designated QB bring the puck up (Kaner) and then you have two other forwards barrelling a$$ into the zone, but it changes every time. Maybe it's Kaner, Toews and Bickell on one rush and next time you get Kaner, Toews and Keith, always leaving 1-2 guys back.
Of course, they should be doing an iteration of this anyway, so perhaps I just wasted your time w/my brilliant ideas. - eburgio
It certainly sounds like it would be more effective than 4 guys stopping at the blue line and expecting the fifth to set up in the zone by himself. Maybe Kompon is of the school of thought that the four stationary guys are acting as screens like an offensive line, so that the defense doesn't know which "hole" the puck carrier plans to rush through, but practice has shown that it isn't effective. It's time to try something new, IMO.
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