Who didn't realize?
- Cptmjl

Well ... me. Everyone but Wang saw how much damage he did the the Islanders. But I didn't realize how much damage he did to the farm system.

Not to split hairs but it was 6 out of 8 and i wouldn't. If 6 of those 8 were even servicable NHL Dman let alone solid it'd be a shock to me. We would have to have quite a bit of luck with that one. Hamonic is already a legit NHL Dman so it's actually 6 out of 7! 90%
- Cptmjl

5 out of 7. Hamonic is one of six, not to split hairs. I just think these kids all have high ceilings. We're not talking about mid to late round picks. The reviews these kids they've drafted are great. Pokka and Mayfield were considered steals by the Isles where they were drated. The point is, when these kids hit their prime, the Isles should have a formidable "D", one that will be among the tops in hockey.

Well ... me. Everyone but Wang saw how much damage he did the the Islanders. But I didn't realize how much damage he did to the farm system.
- JimmyP

Milbury didn't have a farm system. The best prospect in the system when he was let go was Frans Nielsen. What's telling is that besides Frans, nobody else on the Isles roster was selected in a draft by Mike Milbury.

5 out of 7. Hamonic is one of six, not to split hairs. I just think these kids all have high ceilings. We're not talking about mid to late round picks. The reviews these kids they've drafted are great. Pokka and Mayfield were considered steals by the Isles where they were drated. The point is, when these kids hit their prime, the Isles should have a formidable "D", one that will be among the tops in hockey.
- Jethro09

I don't disgree. They picked enough Dmen over the last few years that if developed properly have high ceilings. I just think it's more of a numbers game in the end. I think when all is said and done we will have a nice blue line.

Milbury didn't have a farm system. The best prospect in the system when he was let go was Frans Nielsen. What's telling is that besides Frans, nobody else on the Isles roster was selected in a draft by Mike Milbury.
- Jethro09

Exactly. He traded everything before it made it to the farm

5 out of 7. Hamonic is one of six, not to split hairs. I just think these kids all have high ceilings. We're not talking about mid to late round picks. The reviews these kids they've drafted are great. Pokka and Mayfield were considered steals by the Isles where they were drated. The point is, when these kids hit their prime, the Isles should have a formidable "D", one that will be among the tops in hockey.
- Jethro09

I think trading for Franson could help the development of the young d-men on the farm because if you get Franson, you don't have to rush your quality prospects...

Who didn't realize?
- Cptmjl

Honestly, I think a lot of people didn't. They knew the shape of the Isles themselves, but it was evident by how people just couldn't comprehend how slow this rebuild would take given no real UFA options existed. It's evident when someone coplains that Snow doesn't trade...while we can complain about that right NOW or beyond, but expecting it 1-2 seasons ago tended to show a lack of understanding for just how bad things were. Sure we may have had a few guys that were tradeable, but we didn't have enough behind them in the pipeline to make then expendable.

Certainly Snow isn't close to being perfect, but I do think even some of the biggest critics are starting to realize that things are coming together and sticking to 'the plan' ultimately was better than skipping steps. Of course that only comes with a more profound understanding of just how things were left by MM as opposed to the perception a few years ago.


Xxkeaner17xX

I think trading for Franson could help the development of the young d-men on the farm because if you get Franson, you don't have to rush your quality prospects...
- kear20

I'd hold off frankly. We already have a 'better' d corps right now and are just getting to the stage where we'll see the addition of 1-2 defensive prospects per year for the next few years. Figure Donovan and maybe de Haan this year. Perhaps Mayfield and Pedan next year. Reinhart the year after. Poluck the year after. We have a pretty good pipeline in place. While I'd love to add a FA that could make us deeper, I don't think dealing anyone makes sense knowing the influx of talent we're going to see on the blueline over the next few years.


Xxkeaner17xX

Honestly, I think a lot of people didn't. They knew the shape of the Isles themselves, but it was evident by how people just couldn't comprehend how slow this rebuild would take given no real UFA options existed. It's evident when someone coplains that Snow doesn't trade...while we can complain about that right NOW or beyond, but expecting it 1-2 seasons ago tended to show a lack of understanding for just how bad things were. Sure we may have had a few guys that were tradeable, but we didn't have enough behind them in the pipeline to make then expendable.

Certainly Snow isn't close to being perfect, but I do think even some of the biggest critics are starting to realize that things are coming together and sticking to 'the plan' ultimately was better than skipping steps. Of course that only comes with a more profound understanding of just how things were left by MM as opposed to the perception a few years ago.


Xxkeaner17xX
- keaner17

I'll speak for myself on this one because I've always been one of his biggest critics. I wanted him to add through FA for the most part to help in the tutoring of our prospects. Help with their growth into NHL players. There to me has been a lack of leadership on this team. I don't consider Marty Reasoner or Brad Boyes real veteran leadership I can care less what Snow or Capuano thinks. He shat the bed in that sense.
I never wanted him to "skip steps" or trade the farm for an aging veteran but him not being able to get any key veterans on this team save Streit(who to me was a bit of a wild card)slowed the rebuild. These kids had to learn on their own or at least it seemed that way at times. Maybe they'll be better for it? They seem to be coming around now. For all of his faults Snow's one strong suit to me at least has been his reluctance to trade picks or prospects. I've never been big on that idea especially since the Milbury days. The flip side to this is we are going to have to start trading the right prospects soon if you know what i mean? Trading the O'marras and holding on to the Hamonics. These next couple seasons will tell us just how good a GM Snow really is. Addressing needs that may or may not be able to be filled(goaltending, defense) with our home grown talent? Though huge, holding onto picks and drafting to me does not make a GM. What comes next does.

Honestly, I think a lot of people didn't. They knew the shape of the Isles themselves, but it was evident by how people just couldn't comprehend how slow this rebuild would take given no real UFA options existed. It's evident when someone coplains that Snow doesn't trade...while we can complain about that right NOW or beyond, but expecting it 1-2 seasons ago tended to show a lack of understanding for just how bad things were. Sure we may have had a few guys that were tradeable, but we didn't have enough behind them in the pipeline to make then expendable.

Certainly Snow isn't close to being perfect, but I do think even some of the biggest critics are starting to realize that things are coming together and sticking to 'the plan' ultimately was better than skipping steps. Of course that only comes with a more profound understanding of just how things were left by MM as opposed to the perception a few years ago.


Xxkeaner17xX
- keaner17

I think after watching our players success on other teams you'd have to be pretty numb not to realize it. Christ, people were chanting his name at the Coliseum for years to get the ax.

I think after watching our players success on other teams you'd have to be pretty numb not to realize it. Christ, people were chanting his name at the Coliseum for years to get the ax.
- Cptmjl

Keep in mind we're referring to whether fans knew how bad shape the farm system was in. While everyone knew the Isles club was in bad shape, there seemed to be very little knowledge in regards to our farm system a the time. Guys like Bertuzzi, Luongo, Chara, Connolly, McCabe etc were all traded from the big club, so I think there was a natural belief that there were still SOME players in the minors. The reality was, there was not.


Xxkeaner17xX

Honestly, I think a lot of people didn't. They knew the shape of the Isles themselves, but it was evident by how people just couldn't comprehend how slow this rebuild would take given no real UFA options existed. It's evident when someone coplains that Snow doesn't trade...while we can complain about that right NOW or beyond, but expecting it 1-2 seasons ago tended to show a lack of understanding for just how bad things were. Sure we may have had a few guys that were tradeable, but we didn't have enough behind them in the pipeline to make then expendable.

Certainly Snow isn't close to being perfect, but I do think even some of the biggest critics are starting to realize that things are coming together and sticking to 'the plan' ultimately was better than skipping steps. Of course that only comes with a more profound understanding of just how things were left by MM as opposed to the perception a few years ago.


Xxkeaner17xX
- keaner17

Honestly, whether in hockey, politics or at your own job, I never thought it was a good idea to blame the guy there before you, especially years after the fact. How long do you keep that up before it becomes something you own and something you're responsible for? It's just too easy to keep falling back on that when good ideas are lacking, or worse, when new ideas aren't working. Happens a lot at my job after there's a re-shuffling and it's rarely productive to keep harping on everything the old person screwed up. We know...that's why he's not there anymore.

To Snow's credit, I don't think I've ever heard him do that. It's more in the debates among fans where it comes up. On that note, I don't think fans couldn't comprehend how long a rebuild should take. I think fans were (a) tired of rebuilds and (b) wary that, as seemed to be and probably was the case, "rebuild" could once again be an excuse for "being cheap."

As for how Snow has been as a GM, I think a lot is yet to be determined. For all the talk about his strength in drafting (which I agree with), that hasn't really been seen yet on the NHL roster. It'll take time before we see how the high picks like Strome, Reinhart, etc. pan out, which in turn will have a big impact on how Snow has done as GM, seeing how he has put a lot of his eggs in the drafting basket. Really, out of the Isles' top six forwards (Moulson, Tavares, PMB, Bailey, Nielsen, KO), Tavares is one of two Snow draft picks and the only one who has proven himself so far as a top-six player. I don't think that's an indictment of Snow or his drafting at all, just a signal that a lot has yet to be determined with the team Snow is building, when you consider that the GM's greatest strength has yet to really manifest itself yet in critical roles for the team he's building.

My biggest issue with Snow has been his job as a salesman. There again, it's probably too soon to make a final judgment in that area. He hasn't really been able to sell FAs anything other than a last place cap-floor team running everything on the cheap and playing in an old building on Hempstead Turnpike. That won't be the case soon, so it'll be interesting to see if that impacts players' decisions to come here.

So, long story short, Milbury or no Milbury, the job Snow has done should still get a big TBD. Seems strange to say that going into his seventh or whatever year on the job, but I guess that what "patience" and "rebuilds" are about.

I'll speak for myself on this one because I've always been one of his biggest critics. I wanted him to add through FA for the most part to help in the tutoring of our prospects. Help with their growth into NHL players. There to me has been a lack of leadership on this team. I don't consider Marty Reasoner or Brad Boyes real veteran leadership I can care less what Snow or Capuano thinks. He shat the bed in that sense.
I never wanted him to "skip steps" or trade the farm for an aging veteran but him not being able to get any key veterans on this team save Streit(who to me was a bit of a wild card)slowed the rebuild. These kids had to learn on their own or at least it seemed that way at times. Maybe they'll be better for it? They seem to be coming around now. For all of his faults Snow's one strong suit to me at least has been his reluctance to trade picks or prospects. I've never been big on that idea especially since the Milbury days. The flip side to this is we are going to have to start trading the right prospects soon if you know what i mean? Trading the O'marras and holding on to the Hamonics. These next couple seasons will tell us just how good a GM Snow really is. Addressing needs that may or may not be able to be filled(goaltending, defense) with our home grown talent? Though huge, holding onto picks and drafting to me does not make a GM. What comes next does.
- Cptmjl

I think it all does, but quite often the best moves are the one's not made. I still can't fault Snow for failing to bring in effective players via free agency since it seems history has proven that the circumstances of the franchise state probably were too much for any GM to overcome. Snow's best quality to me has been his patience and perseverance. He told folks from the beginning that we would no longer look to big contracts and trades as a means to make a quick fix but would instead build a homegrown franchise capable of sustaining attrition for years to come. At times where he's been beat to death in the media and through the public, he's managed to stick to the plan, take his lumps and stay the course. THAT does make a good GM IMO. Having a plan, staying focused on said plan and seeing it through.
I agree that from this point out will show how good Snow is at the other things that we've yet to give him a complete grade on and while he's certainly not an 'A' student, I do think he's on his way to a passing grade.

Xxkeaner17xX

agreed. I wonder how sold he is on Nilsson or Poulin?
- Cptmjl

Goalies take time to develop sometimes... and I think you can also sign a great one if you have to... and you only really need ONE top notch goaltender. Don't get me wrong .. I think the BIGGEST reason we have struggled in the past was that very reason.. BUT the feeling is we give Poulin and/or Nillson a decent shot to show they are up to the tast this year and the begining of next year. If not you have to make a move at some point early next year. .. 2 years ago the best goalie in the league was Tim Thomas (arguably) he is a UFA unsigned right now.

So, long story short, Milbury or no Milbury, the job Snow has done should still get a big TBD. Seems strange to say that going into his seventh or whatever year on the job, but I guess that what "patience" and "rebuilds" are about.
- UIF

And I think this has to be considered as a testament to just how bad shape our system was in. If you give a TBD out for 7 years of work, it can only mean that the project started from such low depths that a bit of a curve has been added.

To be fair in regards to drafting, we do have to look beyond the high picks in scoring his draft performances, which guys like Martin, Hamonic and Cizikas all look pretty good at this point, though I agree that due to the type of rebuild, most of the picks have yet to reach a point where they're ready to play a significant role. It appears this may be the first year where we can really begin to score his overall work (though Is till think 2015 is where the conclusions will be drawn)

Xxkeaner17xX

I'll speak for myself on this one because I've always been one of his biggest critics. I wanted him to add through FA for the most part to help in the tutoring of our prospects. Help with their growth into NHL players. There to me has been a lack of leadership on this team. I don't consider Marty Reasoner or Brad Boyes real veteran leadership I can care less what Snow or Capuano thinks. He shat the bed in that sense.
I never wanted him to "skip steps" or trade the farm for an aging veteran but him not being able to get any key veterans on this team save Streit(who to me was a bit of a wild card)slowed the rebuild. These kids had to learn on their own or at least it seemed that way at times. Maybe they'll be better for it? They seem to be coming around now. For all of his faults Snow's one strong suit to me at least has been his reluctance to trade picks or prospects. I've never been big on that idea especially since the Milbury days. The flip side to this is we are going to have to start trading the right prospects soon if you know what i mean? Trading the O'marras and holding on to the Hamonics. These next couple seasons will tell us just how good a GM Snow really is. Addressing needs that may or may not be able to be filled(goaltending, defense) with our home grown talent? Though huge, holding onto picks and drafting to me does not make a GM. What comes next does.
- Cptmjl

I will disagree with this a little bit... To have the ballz as a GM to NOT give up your future when you had 7 d-men get hurt at once or 3 goaltenders at once is astounding. 2 years ago the Islanders had both of those situations and Snow did not make a dumb move. He only traded a 6th rounder for Montoya.. in the meantime we had d-men and goalies that had no business being on the ice playing. THAT takes a ton of ballz to trust Your GM will not fire you b/c he bought in on the plan. .... now he is CLEARLY under a microscope the next couple of years to see if he can take this team to the next level but... almost all of us would have moved many of these guys before this point.

by the way... Great blog and I refuse to respond on D-chain anymore.

Keep in mind we're referring to whether fans knew how bad shape the farm system was in. While everyone knew the Isles club was in bad shape, there seemed to be very little knowledge in regards to our farm system a the time. Guys like Bertuzzi, Luongo, Chara, Connolly, McCabe etc were all traded from the big club, so I think there was a natural belief that there were still SOME players in the minors. The reality was, there was not.


Xxkeaner17xX
- keaner17

No offense but just about everyone I knew had an idea we had jack shat in the farm. Yeah the islanders always tried ti sell what we had but mist people I knew had an understanding the cupboards were bare.

No offense but just about everyone I knew had an idea we had jack shat in the farm. Yeah the islanders always tried ti sell what we had but mist people I knew had an understanding the cupboards were bare.
- Cptmjl

I think everyone knew there were no bluechippers down there, but I don't think (most) fans realized that the AHL team would have had a difficult time keeping up with QJMHL teams. Bear in mind, you and I aren't exactly typical fans. I'm referring to the one's who don't live on hockeyboards 24/7 365

Xxkeaner17xX

I will disagree with this a little bit... To have the ballz as a GM to NOT give up your future when you had 7 d-men get hurt at once or 3 goaltenders at once is astounding. 2 years ago the Islanders had both of those situations and Snow did not make a dumb move. He only traded a 6th rounder for Montoya.. in the meantime we had d-men and goalies that had no business being on the ice playing. THAT takes a ton of ballz to trust Your GM will not fire you b/c he bought in on the plan. .... now he is CLEARLY under a microscope the next couple of years to see if he can take this team to the next level but... almost all of us would have moved many of these guys before this point.
- niteislander

What you call ballz some may call ineptitude? Having a plan is one thing watching your team flounder with the wrong players is something completely different. We honestly don't know at this point(myself included)whether that was ballz or just not being capable of pulling off a trade(without giving up the farm)or signing a FA to help a team that needed it? Some can argue we lost with purpose but that's a tough idea to wrap your head around. Ballz? Maybe? I'm not sold on that just yet.

Goalies take time to develop sometimes... and I think you can also sign a great one if you have to... and you only really need ONE top notch goaltender. Don't get me wrong .. I think the BIGGEST reason we have struggled in the past was that very reason.. BUT the feeling is we give Poulin and/or Nillson a decent shot to show they are up to the tast this year and the begining of next year. If not you have to make a move at some point early next year. .. 2 years ago the best goalie in the league was Tim Thomas (arguably) he is a UFA unsigned right now.
- niteislander

Oh I get this idea BUT I would've been more comfortable having a truly capable netminder(Nabby has proven once again to be a disaster in the PO's) and gave Nilsson and Poulin some time as backups. IMO that's how you see what they have in a "safe" manner. In other words you always have a true number one to fall back on. Never give up on winning. That was my biggest knock on the offseason but it could've been worse. We could've lost Nabby and been really screwed. As far as the Tim Thomas comment I really don't think that is the best analogy considering the guy hasn't seen the ice in over a year? It's not that far out there that teams are reluctant to sign him even if he truly wants to get back in the game?

I think everyone knew there were no bluechippers down there, but I don't think (most) fans realized that the AHL team would have had a difficult time keeping up with QJMHL teams. Bear in mind, you and I aren't exactly typical fans. I'm referring to the one's who don't live on hockeyboards 24/7 365

Xxkeaner17xX
- keaner17

I agree to an extent... Guess it depends on what your idea of typical is? I remember it being pretty common knowledge to most that our farm was in the dumper . It could've been I knew too much for my own good?

What you call ballz some may call ineptitude? Having a plan is one thing watching your team flounder with the wrong players is something completely different. We honestly don't know at this point(myself included)whether that was ballz or just not being capable of pulling off a trade(without giving up the farm)or signing a FA to help a team that needed it? Some can argue we lost with purpose but that's a tough idea to wrap your head around. Ballz? Maybe? I'm not sold on that just yet.
- Cptmjl

Not to sound like one of those guys but I was told from a friend who is friends with a coach on the staff that they were very confident they were getting Schneider from Vancouver.

I think it all does, but quite often the best moves are the one's not made. I still can't fault Snow for failing to bring in effective players via free agency since it seems history has proven that the circumstances of the franchise state probably were too much for any GM to overcome. Snow's best quality to me has been his patience and perseverance. He told folks from the beginning that we would no longer look to big contracts and trades as a means to make a quick fix but would instead build a homegrown franchise capable of sustaining attrition for years to come. At times where he's been beat to death in the media and through the public, he's managed to stick to the plan, take his lumps and stay the course. THAT does make a good GM IMO. Having a plan, staying focused on said plan and seeing it through.
I agree that from this point out will show how good Snow is at the other things that we've yet to give him a complete grade on and while he's certainly not an 'A' student, I do think he's on his way to a passing grade.

Xxkeaner17xX
- keaner17

The bold is extremely debatable in my book. I have a hard time believing that if we had a GM with a resume and a history of winning that he couldn't have signed a few FA's? Whether that would've been the right thing to do or not is also debatable of course? We can't just ride on prospects unless we get lucky, really lucky. It just doesn't work that way as you know. I hope to see a change and his wait, see, and hope routine because this team is close to being a true contender in my book. He just needs to add the right pieces and if they don't fit from the farm then he's got to go shopping. He can't let this team stumble after what we saw last season. Time to keep growing and moving forward. I'll agree that if Snow is capable of taking this team to the next level through adding the right pieces whether through trade, FA, and or drafting he'll be OK in my book. All will be forgiven

The bold is extremely debatable in my book. I have a hard time believing that if we had a GM with a resume and a history of winning that he couldn't have signed a few FA's? Whether that would've been the right thing to do or not is also debatable of course? We can't just ride on prospects unless we get lucky, really lucky. It just doesn't work that way as you know. I hope to see a change and his wait, see, and hope routine because this team is close to being a true contender in my book. He just needs to add the right pieces and if they don't fit from the farm then he's got to go shopping. He can't let this team stumble after what we saw last season. Time to keep growing and moving forward. I'll agree that if Snow is capable of taking this team to the next level through adding the right pieces whether through trade, FA, and or drafting he'll be OK in my book. All will be forgiven
- Cptmjl

theirs plenty of big name gm's that have been making awful moves....