And - what if - Hayden busted his hand up with that punch - fair trade, Foligno for Hayden?

I know - he didn’t get his hand busted up - so it’s OK, I guess.

I may be wrong - but my guess is (quoting my words of wisdom at the end of the last blog) - hard, but legal and appropriate, hits have more of a deterrent effect than fights between fighters who will not back off from a fight.
- StLBravesFan

Fair point, different kind of deterrent against a different kind of chicanery.

YThis may sound counterintuitive, but when Bouma and Wingels are outht there with 88, it's not just double-shifting Kane (I mean with those guys why bother?), and it's not just Q pulling names out of a hat. There is a reason. There was a lot of dirty and rough stuff and a lot of chatter last night and . . .

Kane.

Gets.

Targeted.

I will also add that Burish's comments about the Hayden fight were bang on, in spite of the genius blogger(s) at other sites who say that fights are stupid and don't matter.

Sometimes, though not always, they do. Marcus Foligno is in a world of pain this morning. getting punched in the face by him or a guy Hayden's size HURTS. So having a guy like Hayden who can skate a regular shift and join the play AND take care of business. HUGE. Because having him on the ice or even dressed and on the bench, gives guys second thoughts.

Hey, rule fighting out of the game completely Different story. but as the rules stand, while fighting is not the "on-ice" immediate deterrent it was before the instigator rule, it still can be a deterrent to a large extent.
- John Jaeckel

That is why I want to see Hayden on Kane's wing for a few games. He has shown the ability to maintain possession and he has some skill. His skating is better too. His hits leave a mark.

The best part of his game so far is that he does not go out of his way to make a big hit and he does not engage in all the dirty bull poop after the whistle.

>A few things I see that cause the Hawks to struggle:
>Forwards attacking opponent blueline all at same depth -- need more "layering" when attacking -- especially when the puck is turned over = odd man break the other way
>Power Play: making the puck travel too far when in the OZ -- too many passes by a Hawks player wind up 50/50 pucks Hawks lose -- need much more player movement without the puck in the OZ, better support, much quicker, shorter passes
>Young Hawks assuming they've "won" the puck battle -- NHL players give a more determined, sustained effort than any league in the world -- some young Hawks win an initial puck battle only to lose it by relaxing a bit thinking the opponent "gave up"
>Tempo, tempo, tempo -- Hawks DZ D to D passes, shuttles, or chips -- when on time and on target -- get everything going in the right direction -- when done mindlessly -- all hell breaks loose
>Less aircraft carriers skating turns to change direction, more "stop and start"
>NHL is a pretty even league -- many games will be decided by one team missing a scoring chance, the other finishing theirs
>If #12 scores on his wide open look, and #15 bunts his into an open net, it's likely a Hawk win
- SnapitUpstairs

Blues under Hitchcock were very, very good at attacking in layers. Just one example.

Agreed on tempo, Hawks had it in games 1 and 2, lots of push up the ice. Anisimov I'm afraid in a top 6 role not longer fits what they are trying to do with this team since last year. Getting Saad back was for more than just marketing reasons. Push, pace, tempo, speed. Promoting Schmaltz to L2, same thing.

Also agreed on finishing the chances. Couple of bad bounces, at least one turnover in the back of your net, you lose 5-2.

That is why I want to see Hayden on Kane's wing for a few games. He has shown the ability to maintain possession and he has some skill. His skating is better too. His hits leave a mark.

The best part of his game so far is that he does not go out of his way to make a big hit and he does not engage in all the dirty bull poop after the whistle.
- bhawks2241

\

Hartman is there right now for similar reasons though. And he has more of a scorer's tough right now anyway than Hayden. Though that's also whjy you can see the argument for Hayden, so yes, good point.

>A few things I see that cause the Hawks to struggle:
>Forwards attacking opponent blueline all at same depth -- need more "layering" when attacking -- especially when the puck is turned over = odd man break the other way
>Power Play: making the puck travel too far when in the OZ -- too many passes by a Hawks player wind up 50/50 pucks Hawks lose -- need much more player movement without the puck in the OZ, better support, much quicker, shorter passes
>Young Hawks assuming they've "won" the puck battle -- NHL players give a more determined, sustained effort than any league in the world -- some young Hawks win an initial puck battle only to lose it by relaxing a bit thinking the opponent "gave up"
>Tempo, tempo, tempo -- Hawks DZ D to D passes, shuttles, or chips -- when on time and on target -- get everything going in the right direction -- when done mindlessly -- all hell breaks loose
>Less aircraft carriers skating turns to change direction, more "stop and start"
>NHL is a pretty even league -- many games will be decided by one team missing a scoring chance, the other finishing theirs
>If #12 scores on his wide open look, and #15 bunts his into an open net, it's likely a Hawk win
- SnapitUpstairs

Seems to me we’ve said all of this in past seasons - especially the bolded.

Coaching / teaching issues?

Not one but two untimely empty net goals. It all started from unfortunate challenge . More of a coaching staff loss than a team/player loss. Stash seemed to want the wheels to fall off after that challenge. Well they fell off alright. Rookies need to tell coach 'don't let it happen again.'

I'd like to see Hayden get a shot. Might not be able to keep up in transition all the time but once that line establishes possession in the o-zone that would be fun to watch. He has shown he can hold the puck down low.
- bhawks2241

Been saying it since the preseason.

Sharp AA Hartman - 3rd line

Best 12 guys aren't on the big club.

\

Hartman is there right now for similar reasons though. And he has more of a scorer's tough right now anyway than Hayden. Though that's also whjy you can see the argument for Hayden, so yes, good point.
- John Jaeckel

I feel like there are times that Hartman plays really good hockey. Borderline Top 6 guy but then he disappears for stretches or is too busy gooning it up (for lack of a better term) or just doing dumb stuff.

Hayden just seems like a pros pro. Just goes about his business.

Think we can agree that having a guy with speed carrying the puck makes it a lot easier for Kane to operate. Gives opposing D something else to think about.

IF the Hawks are in the Stanley Cup contender pool by the trade deadline, James Neal is a perfect rental forward to add to the hawks Top 9 forward group. You can disagree, but you don't need to be offended or make a mockery of the post. Again, like JJ always says, "Did Stan Bowman tell you that himself??". The Hawks have some good prospects and picks to send to Vegas or anyone else who is looking to sell assets before/at the trade deadline. Forsling had a really solid game last night with the exception of a brutal and costly turnover to finish the 3rd period. IF Forsling and Rutta can play 20 minutes a night against the opponent's 2nd line (as they have to start the season), then Kempny-Murphy are a more than adequate 3rd pairing at 15 minutes a night. The real issue is the rapid decline in play from Seabrook and Keith (neither of whom are going anywhere). I'm a big fan of Nick Schmaltz, as well as Ryan Hartman. However, adding a proven NHL player like Duchene or Neal would be a huge boost to the 2nd line and slot Hartman or Anisimov on a very responsible and offensively capable 3rd line with Sharp. Again, I'm trying to start a dialogue on an off day, I'm not sorry if you don't agree with my post. You can either have an educated and civil debate, or you can mock me, your choice but we both know which choice is the most productive and beneficial to the blog.
- EnzoD

I explained why the Neal idea is -at this time-a waste of time to even discuss. Your argument is full of holes. You talk about a "boost" to the lines by adding another winger, but don't feel "a boost" to the D is necessary, "IF Forsling and Rutta can play 20 minutes a night against the opponent's 2nd line". So right there you are not even sure they can. No one can be sure. We don't know. Yet you want to add a to a position where the Hawks are already pretty strong to "give it a boost". Meanwhile, we have center depth issues, can't win draws and a whole bunch of "IFS" on the blueline. Assuming Stan is even looking at making a move, which I doubt he is at this moment, those are the priority areas, not adding to a position of strength, which I argue we're pretty good at wing considering John Hayden is playing fourth line, Tommy Wingles was a healthy scratch and Vinnie Hinostroza is in Rockford.

You also fail to read it from the Vegas perspective. There is a great vibe over there right now, they look like they are going to be better than a run-of-the mill expansion team and while it's quite early if they remain in the playoff chase the very last thing they will do is trade a guy who is literally the face of their franchise at this time. Again, pointless to discuss and you concocted meaning from a Dregger tweet that was incorrect. Again, WHY would Vegas shop this guy? Period?

And lastly, another failed argument is you equate Duchene with Neal. Not that I think Duchene is in any way realistic either (for very different reasons), but they are NOT THE SAME position. Duchene fills a HUGE need, "giving a boost" to our center depth and adding a legit 200 foot player WITH SPEED who can win faceoffs.

All the factors added up make Neal a ridiculous idea at this time. But you love posting all these trade ideas. Which is great, you like doing it, fine. Try to ask yourself? Is THIS a need? And is the other team interested in moving this player? If you objectively analyze this you will realize the bit of cap space Stan has and the few prospects we have may best be held close to the vest right now until the Defense gets sorted out and our center play comes into focus.

If a bunch of factors come into play:
-Defense is better than we expect
-Center depth is great
-We stay healthy
-We have problems scoring
-Vegas fades into the night
-McPhee doesn't ask for the moon

Then a Neal idea has merit, but none of this will be sorted out for quite a while.

Stop fighting you're ruining thanksgiving

Blues under Hitchcock were very, very good at attacking in layers. Just one example.

Agreed on tempo, Hawks had it in games 1 and 2, lots of push up the ice. Anisimov I'm afraid in a top 6 role not longer fits what they are trying to do with this team since last year. Getting Saad back was for more than just marketing reasons. Push, pace, tempo, speed. Promoting Schmaltz to L2, same thing.

Also agreed on finishing the chances. Couple of bad bounces, at least one turnover in the back of your net, you lose 5-2.
- John Jaeckel

>Yes, Hitch/Blues very good example of a layered attack
>Yes, #15 just doesn't seem like as good a "team fit" this year as he has been
>Yes, better puck management at both bluelines, please

Stop fighting you're ruining thanksgiving
- kinigitt

Seems to me we’ve said all of this in past seasons - especially the bolded.

Coaching / teaching issues?
- StLBravesFan

>Yes, all has been said before
>Regarding coaching/teaching -- think players need to do a better job recognizing "where they should be when" -- both on the attack and on the Power Play
>My only coaching suggestion would be: on the Power Play -- give your best offensive player/passer -- Kane -- the most passing/playmaking options once the Hawks are set up
>The location for that is NOT on the half-wall -- it at the GOAL LINE corner on Kane's off wing side -- his "normal" wing side
>Kane then has a minimum of three places to pass the puck, maybe four
>PP possessions are killed when the puck possessor has no shooting or passing options
>Hawk PP as a unit also looks like it "thinks" -- one pass at a time -- instead of trying to use passing as a way to get a defender to move just enough to be out of position -- which then creates the space for a quality scoring chance

>Yes, all has been said before
>Regarding coaching/teaching -- think players need to do a better job recognizing "where they should be when" -- both on the attack and on the Power Play
>My only coaching suggestion would be: on the Power Play -- give your best offensive player/passer -- Kane -- the most passing/playmaking options once the Hawks are set up
>The location for that is NOT on the half-wall -- it at the GOAL LINE corner on Kane's off wing side -- his "normal" wing side
>Kane then has a minimum of three places to pass the puck, maybe four
>PP possessions are killed when the puck possessor has no shooting or passing options
>Hawk PP as a unit also looks like it "thinks" -- one pass at a time -- instead of trying to use passing as a way to get a defender to move just enough to be out of position -- which then creates the space for a quality scoring chance
- SnapitUpstairs

Shot and a goal right here by Snapper

I explained why the Neal idea is -at this time-a waste of time to even discuss. Your argument is full of holes. You talk about a "boost" to the lines by adding another winger, but don't feel "a boost" to the D is necessary, "IF Forsling and Rutta can play 20 minutes a night against the opponent's 2nd line". So right there you are not even sure they can. No one can be sure. We don't know. Yet you want to add a to a position where the Hawks are already pretty strong to "give it a boost". Meanwhile, we have center depth issues, can't win draws and a whole bunch of "IFS" on the blueline. Assuming Stan is even looking at making a move, which I doubt he is at this moment, those are the priority areas, not adding to a position of strength, which I argue we're pretty good at wing considering John Hayden is playing fourth line, Tommy Wingles was a healthy scratch and Vinnie Hinostroza is in Rockford.

You also fail to read it from the Vegas perspective. There is a great vibe over there right now, they look like they are going to be better than a run-of-the mill expansion team and while it's quite early if they remain in the playoff chase the very last thing they will do is trade a guy who is literally the face of their franchise at this time. Again, pointless to discuss and you concocted meaning from a Dregger tweet that was incorrect. Again, WHY would Vegas shop this guy? Period?

And lastly, another failed argument is you equate Duchene with Neal. Not that I think Duchene is in any way realistic either (for very different reasons), but they are NOT THE SAME position. Duchene fills a HUGE need, "giving a boost" to our center depth and adding a legit 200 foot player WITH SPEED who can win faceoffs.

All the factors added up make Neal a ridiculous idea at this time. But you love posting all these trade ideas. Which is great, you like doing it, fine. Try to ask yourself? Is THIS a need? And is the other team interested in moving this player? If you objectively analyze this you will realize the bit of cap space Stan has and the few prospects we have may best be held close to the vest right now until the Defense gets sorted out and our center play comes into focus.
- kwolf68

'Legit 200 foot player' ???? Gee, I wonder why he is so available. Well guess who was tied for absolute last in plus/minus in the entire league last year. I mean dead freaking last number 982 or 983 with any stats in the NHL depends who you read. Nice item to have on your resume Matt. Colorado should choke on him.

>Hawk PP as a unit also looks like it "thinks" -- one pass at a time -- instead of trying to use passing as a way to get a defender to move just enough to be out of position -- which then creates the space for a quality scoring chance
- SnapitUpstairs

Definitely.

Pass Pass Pass meanwhile the defenders just have to do a light push to cover the lanes then it's one shot, either blocked or stopped by the goalie and cleared. Considering how hard it is to get a clean zone entry, they should be rethinking it.

And - what if - Hayden busted his hand up with that punch - fair trade, Foligno for Hayden?

I know - he didn’t get his hand busted up - so it’s OK, I guess.

I may be wrong - but my guess is (quoting my words of wisdom at the end of the last blog) - hard, but legal and appropriate, hits have more of a deterrent effect than fights between fighters who will not back off from a fight.
- StLBravesFan

It's not basketball, and it's never going to be. Sometimes you just have to go. Gets you a little more room if you don't just lay down. Staged fights - no. But a passionate round for a few seconds says more than any words can. Always been that way, always will.

It's not basketball, and it's never going to be. Sometimes you just have to go. Gets you a little more room if you don't just lay down. Staged fights - no. But a passionate round for a few seconds says more than any words can. Always been that way, always will.
- 6628

Always has been, yes

Once the concussion stuff gets sorted out, no more fights, no more head shots... One hopes

Too many dinosaurs at Nhl headquarters yet

IF the Hawks are in the Stanley Cup contender pool by the trade deadline, James Neal is a perfect rental forward to add to the hawks Top 9 forward group. You can disagree, but you don't need to be offended or make a mockery of the post. Again, like JJ always says, "Did Stan Bowman tell you that himself??". The Hawks have some good prospects and picks to send to Vegas or anyone else who is looking to sell assets before/at the trade deadline. Forsling had a really solid game last night with the exception of a brutal and costly turnover to finish the 3rd period. IF Forsling and Rutta can play 20 minutes a night against the opponent's 2nd line (as they have to start the season), then Kempny-Murphy are a more than adequate 3rd pairing at 15 minutes a night. The real issue is the rapid decline in play from Seabrook and Keith (neither of whom are going anywhere). I'm a big fan of Nick Schmaltz, as well as Ryan Hartman. However, adding a proven NHL player like Duchene or Neal would be a huge boost to the 2nd line and slot Hartman or Anisimov on a very responsible and offensively capable 3rd line with Sharp. Again, I'm trying to start a dialogue on an off day, I'm not sorry if you don't agree with my post. You can either have an educated and civil debate, or you can mock me, your choice but we both know which choice is the most productive and beneficial to the blog.
- EnzoD

Didn't he have a brutal and costly TO that led to the first goal?

Because they wanted to roll with the guys they had.

They also have to be careful with Hinostroza because his waiver eligibility end in a little over 20 games. They might actually need him later in the season if someone goes down for more games and they can't risk him losing eligibility and then being in a bad place roster-wise.
- L_B_R

Is that an age thing, or a total games played thing?

Didn't he have a brutal and costly TO that led to the first goal?
- tvetter

Yes he did. Played well otherwise though.

Yes he did. Played well otherwise though.
- kinigitt

He's 21, not surprising he's making mistakes.

Yes he did. Played well otherwise though.
- kinigitt

I agree, and if he keeps playing, I think he can be a solid 4/5 by the spring.

Didn't he have a brutal and costly TO that led to the first goal?
- tvetter

I meant to type 2nd period. That is the turnover that I am referring to. With the exception of that egrigious error, he showed the potential and upside of a 20 minute per night 200ft dman. The growing pains are part of the process, but the loss last night can be pinned on Seabrook and Keith as much or more than Forsling's turnover, IMO. Seabrook getting caught in the mud on the review goal was embarressing, and Keith was getting beaten wide all night. If 2 + 7 do not improve their play, adding to this roster is simply wasting future assets for the inevitable (and fast approaching) rebuild.

I explained why the Neal idea is -at this time-a waste of time to even discuss. Your argument is full of holes. You talk about a "boost" to the lines by adding another winger, but don't feel "a boost" to the D is necessary, "IF Forsling and Rutta can play 20 minutes a night against the opponent's 2nd line". So right there you are not even sure they can. No one can be sure. We don't know. Yet you want to add a to a position where the Hawks are already pretty strong to "give it a boost". Meanwhile, we have center depth issues, can't win draws and a whole bunch of "IFS" on the blueline. Assuming Stan is even looking at making a move, which I doubt he is at this moment, those are the priority areas, not adding to a position of strength, which I argue we're pretty good at wing considering John Hayden is playing fourth line, Tommy Wingles was a healthy scratch and Vinnie Hinostroza is in Rockford.

You also fail to read it from the Vegas perspective. There is a great vibe over there right now, they look like they are going to be better than a run-of-the mill expansion team and while it's quite early if they remain in the playoff chase the very last thing they will do is trade a guy who is literally the face of their franchise at this time. Again, pointless to discuss and you concocted meaning from a Dregger tweet that was incorrect. Again, WHY would Vegas shop this guy? Period?

And lastly, another failed argument is you equate Duchene with Neal. Not that I think Duchene is in any way realistic either (for very different reasons), but they are NOT THE SAME position. Duchene fills a HUGE need, "giving a boost" to our center depth and adding a legit 200 foot player WITH SPEED who can win faceoffs.

All the factors added up make Neal a ridiculous idea at this time. But you love posting all these trade ideas. Which is great, you like doing it, fine. Try to ask yourself? Is THIS a need? And is the other team interested in moving this player? If you objectively analyze this you will realize the bit of cap space Stan has and the few prospects we have may best be held close to the vest right now until the Defense gets sorted out and our center play comes into focus.

If a bunch of factors come into play:
-Defense is better than we expect
-Center depth is great
-We stay healthy
-We have problems scoring
-Vegas fades into the night
-McPhee doesn't ask for the moon

Then a Neal idea has merit, but none of this will be sorted out for quite a while.
- kwolf68

If you don't like my posts, simply ignore them. It's very easy, but again, you apparently have an open line of communication with Bowman and know what his plan is, what player's are on his radar, and what acquisitions are possible and impossible. So, I'll leave you to it. One guy who would probably love to have James Neal on his line and his name is Patrick Kane...but that's "like, your opinion man...."