Sure, so you believe that Saad and Richard Panik are carrying Toews? Do you seriously believe that?

You talk about slow starts, how about the Nashville game where in period 1 Toews and his line were the only ones going early. Toews had 2-3 attempts from the middle of the ice in the first period. Where were the rest of the team?

Look, I get it. People remember some highlights of the glory days of the this team and you want to think Toews was making those plays night after night, but that isn't reality. Some of you will appreciate what Toews brings to the team when he is actually declined or is gone.
- breadbag

>You are not going convince me Toews is the impact player he was, and that includes "all the little things" he did so well
>I'm not going to convince you Toews play is subpar for the roles he has on the team
>I'm hoping the Toews that passes the eye test returns
>Whether Toews is +5 or -5 tonight, I will wait another 20 games before any more comments on him (if I can)
>Off to a meeting, hoping for a Hawks W

If you have time today, rewatch game 7 of the 2015 WCF. Watch Toews carefully the entire game.

You can't seriously say that the same Toews was out on the ice last night, or at any point these past few seasons.
- SimpleJack

He was player of the month Feb 2017, not that long ago. His last quarter leading to the playoffs was elite. It's just less common than it used to be

I fully expect the Oilers to go ham tonight and score many goals. I also expect the Hawks to score many goals as the Oilers have some injury issues and their defenders are baaaaad.

Could be a 6-5 mess.

Anyway, I'm going to stick with my assessment from yesterday. The talent pool is super diluted and some games are going to go like this. Some games are going to go like the Penguins game where they blew the barn doors off. Got caught on a change, Crow made a mad read and lol Seabrook, again.

Onward,

>You are not going convince me Toews is the impact player he was, and that includes "all the little things" he did so well
>I'm not going to convince you Toews play is subpar for the roles he has on the team
>I'm hoping the Toews that passes the eye test returns
>Whether Toews is +5 or -5 tonight, I will wait another 20 games before any more comments on him (if I can)
>Off to a meeting, hoping for a Hawks W
- SnapitUpstairs

Exactly correct, my friend. Toews used to be an explosive player with "jump" in his stride AND that grit. Now, Toews is all grit, and no high end skill/speed. He is NOT worth $10.5mil based on his play the last 2+ seasons. We all watch the games every night. I've played, coached, officiated and watched hockey on TV for the last 20+ years and I know when a guy has the "IT" factor. Toews used to be a guy that could control the puck for extended periods of time in the O-zone. Now, he loses possession of the puck very easily, and does not have the speed that made him a threat off the rush. Telling everyone here who sees the same thing that "you remember a few highlights" is an insult to our intelligence and our ability to assess hockey players and the game itself. Toews, Keith, and Seabrook have all regressed significantly in their overall playing ability since 2015.

Apparently Troy Murray ripped the "veteran leadership" of this team after the game. I didn't hear it but saw a scribe quote him. Very interesting.

All 3 Hawks letter wearers are showing downward trend. I caught Pierre last night making some off the wall comment on Keith unprovoked as if to defend him and build him up....nationally. Found that amusing this early in the season, those are truly reserved for Foley.

You would think, hope playing a huge rival after a long break you would come out flying, but Hawks were badly on their heels and I was just waiting for the blues to score and some blown coverage gave Schwartz a gimmee.....on goal 2 a bad change gave him another one, on goal 3 AA couldn't receive a pass that may/may not should have been given to him if Seabrook recognizes 91 lurking........

A brutal game.......
- SteveRain

Anyone have a link to Troy Murray's comments, either video or an article?

JJ or anyone who like to chime in at what point in the season do we start looking for change? Is it now , after 20 games, christmas because this has been going on for 2 years plus lack of urgency not showing up for big pivotal games who is to blame coaching staff yes bowman yes players yes so they are all to blame the window to me has closed just my opinion yes they are playoff team but thats it. What changes can be made fire the coach and gm should ve been done after nashville seris but didn't. Its time for Q and bowman to go bring in a new voice and new gm who isn t riding his daddy's name. Thoughts!

You cherry picking one game from late in the playoffs as a comparison? Is any player going to consistently match one of their best performances? Be realistic. Is there anyone on the Hawks roster putting in that kind of effort right now? Should they be? No.
- breadbag

I think that's a really good point. Context does matter and this was game 7 of the regular season, not the SC Finals.

To my untrained eye, Toews is better this year than he was overall since the last Cup season. There were those 6 weeks last season when he was truly "back." It seems like he's been playing close to that level so far this season, but it is early and hard to see the trends. I'd also add that he is older and has more miles on that body / brain / back so it is probably better that he is not playing with playoff level effort because the team needs him to be healthy when we get there. Even so, it does seem like he's engaging in more puck battles and net front presence this year - not sure if there are stats to measure that kind of thing - and his overall game seems back on track. Having 20 on his LW is helping a ton.

2015 and before you would get games like this too over 82...hell these guys are humans dealing with stress professionally and personally, travel, getting beat up every game...it gets to you and sometimes you don't have it

however they have ramped up in frequency since then...alot of hockey, injurys, aging, lost motivation,other teams getting younger and better...

JJ or anyone who like to chime in at what point in the season do we start looking for change? Is it now , after 20 games, christmas because this has been going on for 2 years plus lack of urgency not showing up for big pivotal games who is to blame coaching staff yes bowman yes players yes so they are all to blame the window to me has closed just my opinion yes they are playoff team but thats it. What changes can be made fire the coach and gm should ve been done after nashville seris but didn't.
- Scott1977

I've been wondering about how the front office is viewing this portion of the season. Has this been a try-out of sorts for DeBrincat, Hayden, Forsling, Kempny, and Rutta? What are they giving them, 10 games? It seems like ADB could use some time in Rockford and the Blackhawks could use a better 200 foot game from its 3rd line RW. Hayden has done what he's been asked to do and then some. The young Dmen? Okay but it seems like a second pairing Dman is still a need; especially a LD.

The overall problem with this roster has been the same as it has been the two seasons prior, $21m invested in the top two players means less to spend on the rest of the roster. As time goes by and the cap increases, the impact of that top heavy roster salary distribution lessens but it is still a thing. I read a rumor about an $80m cap for next season, that'd sure help.

In other words, this team needs more talent, especially in the second pair D and in the middle 6 forward departments.

But there is an unhealthy trend with this team that points to the coaching staff because it happened in the last two postseasons as well, the team too often shows up not ready to play. Q gives the players a lot of time between games, somehow the urgency is being lost. That needs to change.

And that's exactly why NHL coaches really want no part of young/rookie defenceman who haven't gone thru the wars at the AHL level at least. Forsling for one wouldn't be on this team were it not for the salary cap.
- RickJ

DING DING DING

>That's very interesting
>If Troy is saying that publicly, then "the room" is currently "not right"
- SnapitUpstairs

It was John Dietz.

Troy Murray "If you're going to grade the performance of any of the blackhawks you're going to be giving them a F. You can't accept this in any way shape or form.....you come in here and waste an effort. It wasn't good enough. The lack of effort from veteran players has got to be disturbing to the coaching staff."

I agree with your earlier post. Saad is no doubt carrying toews right now. That's why they made that trade and 19 better ramp his overall game up.......

>You touched every base, JJ
>And, have to agree with Rick, too -- whole team stunk -- team play structure is missing
>Lack of structure shows up in two very specific ways -- team passing -- which has not been good and team defending -- night after night -- too many Hawks "on the wrong side of the puck" when defending
>When was the last time a Hawk forward cut off an opponent puck-carrier in the neutral zone and created a turnover? (Game 2?)
>As far as passing -- those without the puck have to work much harder to be a real passing option -- those with the puck have to stop telegraphing every pass they make and take pride in making a good pass
>Everyone is on the "Hawk D-train of doom" -- I blame the center play
>#19 has yet to make a significant defensive contribution and his passing has been brutal all year
>#8 -- gets a pass due to injury
>#15 -- is he headed to Line 4?
>Line 4 -- somebody step up and be the Center needed there
- SnapitUpstairs

4th St. Louis goal, Forsling, good God.

DING DING DING
- John Jaeckel

well that captain America are going to be the 2K weight on the back end that very well could sink this ship.

Still giggle about the world championship leadership of Murphy..........

Exactly correct, my friend. Toews used to be an explosive player with "jump" in his stride AND that grit. Now, Toews is all grit, and no high end skill/speed. He is NOT worth $10.5mil based on his play the last 2+ seasons. We all watch the games every night. I've played, coached, officiated and watched hockey on TV for the last 20+ years and I know when a guy has the "IT" factor. Toews used to be a guy that could control the puck for extended periods of time in the O-zone. Now, he loses possession of the puck very easily, and does not have the speed that made him a threat off the rush. Telling everyone here who sees the same thing that "you remember a few highlights" is an insult to our intelligence and our ability to assess hockey players and the game itself. Toews, Keith, and Seabrook have all regressed significantly in their overall playing ability since 2015.
- EnzoD

Nobody is worth 10.5 million in the NHL. Kane/Toews weren't worth that when it was signed and they haven't been worth it since. It is what it is.

If you want to put past Toews on a pedestal, go for it. He had some good moments but he didn't do it alone. He was never the best offensive player in the game. He was never the most dangerous 1 on 1. If you are here expecting him to make a lot of plays he rarely made in the past, you are going to be disappointed. Toews played his best Hockey with Saad/Hossa, or Kane/Sharp or Kane/Byfuglien, but rarely has had linemates of that ability. Saad/Panik is about the best they can do on line 1 at the moment, but Panik is not Hossa. Toews today is essentially Toews of yesterday on a less effective team.

I've been wondering about how the front office is viewing this portion of the season. Has this been a try-out of sorts for DeBrincat, Hayden, Forsling, Kempny, and Rutta? What are they giving them, 10 games? It seems like ADB could use some time in Rockford and the Blackhawks could use a better 200 foot game from its 3rd line RW. Hayden has done what he's been asked to do and then some. The young Dmen? Okay but it seems like a second pairing Dman is still a need; especially a LD.

The overall problem with this roster has been the same as it has been the two seasons prior, $21m invested in the top two players means less to spend on the rest of the roster. As time goes by and the cap increases, the impact of that top heavy roster salary distribution lessens but it is still a thing. I read a rumor about an $80m cap for next season, that'd sure help.

In other words, this team needs more talent, especially in the second pair D and in the middle 6 forward departments.

But there is an unhealthy trend with this team that points to the coaching staff because it happened in the last two postseasons as well, the team too often shows up not ready to play. Q gives the players a lot of time between games, somehow the urgency is being lost. That needs to change.
- matt_ahrens

One personnel move I would make is get Matthew Highmore up from Rockford, give him a few games. Kid is talented, works hard and plays much bigger than his size. Puck seems to follow him.

I think the other thing is happening tonight, Oesterle in for (perhaps) Forsling.

Dunno how Forsberg will hold up against what may end up being another 40 SA tonight, but I feel pretty confident the kid will battle.

Maybe tonight is a bit of a turnaround against the Oil who i hear have not been great so far.

I fully expect the Oilers to go ham tonight and score many goals. I also expect the Hawks to score many goals as the Oilers have some injury issues and their defenders are baaaaad.

Could be a 6-5 mess.

Anyway, I'm going to stick with my assessment from yesterday. The talent pool is super diluted and some games are going to go like this. Some games are going to go like the Penguins game where they blew the barn doors off. Got caught on a change, Crow made a mad read and lol Seabrook, again.

Onward,
- fattybeef

If Seabrook Kempny and Rutta or Franson or whoever the hell is out there were smart, they would sit at the red line and wait for the Oilers to come at them. Seabroook will be smoked a lot tonight.

Light a candle for Forsberg. If this team doesn't do a helluva job back checking, it will be a dumpster fire.

2015 and before you would get games like this too over 82...hell these guys are humans dealing with stress professionally and personally, travel, getting beat up every game...it gets to you and sometimes you don't have it

however they have ramped up in frequency since then...alot of hockey, injurys, aging, lost motivation,other teams getting younger and better...
- bogiedoc

Hawks would be in better shape if they had a younger Hossa again. We were spoiled by just how great he was up and down the ice I think. When he came to Chicago he was often the best player on the ice.

If you have time today, rewatch game 7 of the 2015 WCF. Watch Toews carefully the entire game.

You can't seriously say that the same Toews was out on the ice last night, or at any point these past few seasons.
- SimpleJack

You think he's oging to put on a game 7 performance every night? He's been there, sometimes, like when he had a PPG pace for 30 games last year. The sky is truly falling in here right now.

Hawks would be in better shape if they had a younger Hossa again. We were spoiled by just how great he was up and down the ice I think. When he came to Chicago he was often the best player on the ice.
- breadbag

You may just have him in Saad.

You cherry picking one game from late in the playoffs as a comparison? Is any player going to consistently match one of their best performances? Be realistic. Is there anyone on the Hawks roster putting in that kind of effort right now? Should they be? No.
- breadbag

With all due respect, you (several posts previously) cherry picked the first period against Nashville - one period out of 23 (plus 2 OTs) played - to show that Toews HASN'T slowed down.

Last night sucked, yes, be we could all take a breath and get some perspective here... This is a team with a lot of new faces. Line 1 is clicking big time. Line 2 was until Schmaltz went down, and it's likely not going to kill it the first game back. Line 3 is 3 guys who've never played together before, including a 19 year old. Line 4 is 2 newbies and a guy who played 10ish games last year. Bottom pair D is a new guy and a rookie. Middle paid, 2nd year guy and a new face.

Give the guys some time to pick it up. People were talking about how it will take time to see what we have, now all of the sudden it's the end of the world after 7 games. Maybe start crying if were at 15-15 after 30 games.

Forsberg starts tonight. Oesterle will play on the left side. Kero is in. Q wouldn't say who's out for Oesterle or Kero. #Blackhawks 

Forsberg starts tonight. Oesterle will play on the left side. Kero is in. Q wouldn't say who's out for Oesterle or Kero. #Blackhawks 
- walleyeb1

Forsling and Wingels probably, though I'd prefer Bouma out.

Thinking Q is on the hot seat for sure. Can't show inconsistent or lack of effort, basically a repeat of 2016. Thinking Hawks need to change a few more expensive parts?? Call it a hunch but Montreal needs an injection of life. Islanders, Avalanche, Buffalo want to unload a few players just thinking the Hawks could be a partner in a 3 or 4 way trade to make something happen? Go three weeks looking like this and they will Fire Q or make a big trade? Just sayin they will not just sit on their hands. Cheers JJ

With all due respect, you (several posts previously) cherry picked the first period against Nashville - one period out of 23 (plus 2 OTs) played - to show that Toews HASN'T slowed down.
- StLBravesFan

Right, so I picked one recent example to demonstrate how he is playing recently, in reference to the "slow starts" the team has been getting off to lately. His line was been one of the most consistent the Hawks have had in these 7 games, start to finish.

Toews himself has been one of the most consistent guys they've had in the last decade. You know what you'll get from him night after night, because it pretty much stays the same. I'm not saying it always translates into goals in the net, but the consistent play is what he has been known for.

The team around him has changed a heck of a lot more than Toews has. That is clear as day.