Exactly correct, my friend. Toews used to be an explosive player with "jump" in his stride AND that grit. Now, Toews is all grit, and no high end skill/speed. He is NOT worth $10.5mil based on his play the last 2+ seasons. We all watch the games every night. I've played, coached, officiated and watched hockey on TV for the last 20+ years and I know when a guy has the "IT" factor. Toews used to be a guy that could control the puck for extended periods of time in the O-zone. Now, he loses possession of the puck very easily, and does not have the speed that made him a threat off the rush. Telling everyone here who sees the same thing that "you remember a few highlights" is an insult to our intelligence and our ability to assess hockey players and the game itself. Toews, Keith, and Seabrook have all regressed significantly in their overall playing ability since 2015.
- EnzoD

During the cup years, the Hawks had 4 truly-elite players- Toews, Kane, Keith, Hossa. Most teams are lucky to have 1 or 2 at the most. Currently, the Hawks probably have 1--Kane.

During the cup years, the Hawks had 4 truly-elite players- Toews, Kane, Keith, Hossa. Most teams are lucky to have 1 or 2 at the most. Currently, the Hawks probably have 1--Kane.
- RaleighHawk

you could argue that Crow is an elite Goalie and Q elite coach at that time.

There is a reason that the entire hockey community had a serious debate on who would you take to start your team: Toews or Crosby back in 2013 and in 2017 Toews was ranked as the 12th best CENTER (not forward, Centers only). Toews was a force on the ice and he dictated the play with his strength, skill and will. He just seems like a totally different player since 2015, and it's a major bummer.
- EnzoD

So the question is - how long do you hold on to Toews? I put to everyone, including JJ When is the right time to move a team legend?

Obviously he has not been producing for years and has not been worth the 10.5 mil at best he's been a 5 mill dollar player these last two years.....million dollar question is when do you try and cut bait and cut your losses....even if it's a salary dump I would do it....gives you flexibility to go out and sign a Tavares as an example. Send Toews, Craw and ADB and a second for Price and Gal or something like that...

So the question is - how long do you hold on to Toews? I put to everyone, including JJ When is the right time to move a team legend?

Obviously he has not been producing for years and has not been worth the 10.5 mil at best he's been a 5 mill dollar player these last two years.....million dollar question is when do you try and cut bait and cut your losses....even if it's a salary dump I would do it....gives you flexibility to go out and sign a Tavares as an example. Send Toews, Craw and ADB and a second for Price and Gal or something like that...
- Hawkster

It is an interesting questions in general. We have seen the Patriots masterfully do it numerous times.

So the question is - how long do you hold on to Toews? I put to everyone, including JJ When is the right time to move a team legend?

Obviously he has not been producing for years and has not been worth the 10.5 mil at best he's been a 5 mill dollar player these last two years.....million dollar question is when do you try and cut bait and cut your losses....even if it's a salary dump I would do it....gives you flexibility to go out and sign a Tavares as an example. Send Toews, Craw and ADB and a second for Price and Gal or something like that...
- Hawkster

when 19 is traded or retires...you will see a White Sox rebuild..they ALL GO!!!

you could argue that Crow is an elite Goalie and Q elite coach at that time.
- glennjpawlak22

Yep, Keith and Crow on the edge still...

During the cup years, the Hawks had 4 truly-elite players- Toews, Kane, Keith, Hossa. Most teams are lucky to have 1 or 2 at the most. Currently, the Hawks probably have 1--Kane.
- RaleighHawk

Exactly correct. Hossa's loss in terms of leadership on and off the ice surely seems to be missed. 5 straight poop efforts after an amazing 2-0 start. Hossa was the guy who ALWAYS battled over 200 feet and was a role model for everyone (including the current leadership group of 2, 7, 19 + 88). One cannot understate the loss of Hossa on this team both in terms of on-ice ability, and overall attitude/approach to the game.

I have been thinking it for a while, and JJ eluded to it after that disgraceful playoff series vs Nashville....after 2015 the 3 Cup Crew (with the exception of Kaner) seemed to have taken their foot off the gas pedal and seem to be the real part of the "country club atmosphere" in the locker room. It's very difficult to assess a team over 3 weeks, much less 1 horrid game, but I think this team has been trending downward since 2014, and it was only through a superhuman effort from the Core Players in 2015 that they were able to raise the cup with a very incomplete roster. Something has to change, and sooner rather than later. Mentally, physically and emotionally this team doesn't seem to care anymore....or simply isnt that good anymore.

Can Keith + Seabrook defend against top lines effectively anymore? If they can't, then the Hawks are royally (frank)ed and maybe that small window for a 4th Cup has already been closed. The results of 2 + 7 versus the Top Line's of playoff-caliber opponents have been pretty bad. Regardless of Toews' regression, Duncan Keith was arguably the most important Hawk player at nearly 30 minutes per night of ELITE 200ft hockey. IDK if Keith is even close to the level he was at in 2015.....if Keith cannot defend Matthews, Tarasenko, McDavid, ect then the Hawks Cup window is closed.

So the question is - how long do you hold on to Toews? I put to everyone, including JJ When is the right time to move a team legend?

Obviously he has not been producing for years and has not been worth the 10.5 mil at best he's been a 5 mill dollar player these last two years.....million dollar question is when do you try and cut bait and cut your losses....even if it's a salary dump I would do it....gives you flexibility to go out and sign a Tavares as an example. Send Toews, Craw and ADB and a second for Price and Gal or something like that...
- Hawkster

From a Blackhawks' Marketing and Casual Fan perspective, I do not expect Toews to ever be traded. From a Cap Hit vs on-ice production standpoint, I do not expect Toews to ever be traded. So ya.

Exactly correct. Hossa's loss in terms of leadership on and off the ice surely seems to be missed. 5 straight poop efforts after an amazing 2-0 start. Hossa was the guy who ALWAYS battled over 200 feet and was a role model for everyone (including the current leadership group of 2, 7, 19 + 88). One cannot understate the loss of Hossa on this team both in terms of on-ice ability, and overall attitude/approach to the game.

I have been thinking it for a while, and JJ eluded to it after that disgraceful playoff series vs Nashville....after 2015 the 3 Cup Crew (with the exception of Kaner) seemed to have taken their foot off the gas pedal and seem to be the real part of the "country club atmosphere" in the locker room. It's very difficult to assess a team over 3 weeks, much less 1 horrid game, but I think this team has been trending downward since 2014, and it was only through a superhuman effort from the Core Players in 2015 that they were able to raise the cup with a very incomplete roster. Something has to change, and sooner rather than later. Mentally, physically and emotionally this team doesn't seem to care anymore....or simply isnt that good anymore.

Can Keith + Seabrook defend against top lines effectively anymore? If they can't, then the Hawks are royally (frank)ed and maybe that small window for a 4th Cup has already been closed. The results of 2 + 7 versus the Top Line's of playoff-caliber opponents have been pretty bad. Regardless of Toews' regression, Duncan Keith was arguably the most important Hawk player at nearly 30 minutes per night of ELITE 200ft hockey. IDK if Keith is even close to the level he was at in 2015.....if Keith cannot defend Matthews, Tarasenko, McDavid, ect then the Hawks Cup window is closed.
- EnzoD

The new officiating on slashing certainly does not help Keith either. HE is not in the Weber/Suter lumberjack class but he certainly used quick slashes to his advantage. Can't really do that anymore.

I also think it is a combination of regression and a changing NHL landscape. The Hawks were the model of team quickness and speed (to a lessor extent). It used to be the Hawks system vs. the lumbering heavy hitting Kings and Bruins of the NHL. The new NHL is all about size and speed. Last night you saw bigger Blues players that were quicker and faster than Hawks players. How much was effort based? Idk.

If you have two guys of equal speed and quickness but one is 6'2" 210 and the other is 5'11" 185lbs and both play at a similar intensity level the 6'2" guys is going to win out most one on one battles.

I just don't see the Hawks having a quickness/speed advantage like they used to. The NHL caught up.

They are just not that special team anymore. That team whose overwhelming skill throughout the lineup would leave fans speechless. They’re back closer to the pack now and I’ve accepted it. They’re not going to just dominate teams every night and more teams are gonna make them look bad. Sucks because watching them kick teams around every night was fun. The core in 2017 have a lot of hard miles on them and plenty of dough and job security so maybe they aren’t as hungry.

Every fan here can come up with an effective game plan to beat the Blackhawks at this point. I’m positive every other nhl team does too. Unless they adjust to the way teams are playing them...then nothing will change.

AA to MTL still makes some sense, as he's been a ghost all year, and les Habitants badly need a big center.

And 'The Cat' is not ready to play a regular shift in the NHL.

JJ, not sure about your KANE love, he is the worst forward at getting the puck out of the D zone when he has it on his stick. They'd be better having him fly the zone.

I Remember one of the last regular season games in 2015, it was a meaningless game in Buffalo, Hawks had (I Think) pretty much secured themselves a 2nd or 3rd place divisional finish, but this was a roughly 20 win Buffalo team and they were winning 3-2 and making the Hawks look like an under .500 team. With 2minutes left 19 jumped up from he seat on the bench unloaded a few Strong words to his team skated out on the ice took command of the puck and flipped one to Shawzie to tie it.......40 seconds later 20-19-81 grabbed the puck again and took it down for the next goal...Game Over, No OT No loss to a Team we never should have been losing to in the first place.........Something's changed
- moms2sense1puck

I remember that game too. The Buffalo fans were giving Towes a standing O because he was improving their lottery chances

During the cup years, the Hawks had 4 truly-elite players- Toews, Kane, Keith, Hossa. Most teams are lucky to have 1 or 2 at the most. Currently, the Hawks probably have 1--Kane.
- RaleighHawk

And Kane is not returning their investment this season. He has to provide maximum value for the points he is capable but probably is not going to produce. Sort of like Karlsson in Ottawa means so much to them

As soon as possible I would like to see how Fortin and Hayden look with Kane. Although teams should have a large center among their centers, I would give AA away and promote Highmore for a look.
The players need a message that if you come out flat often, then you get benched or traded. Not that AA is necessarily guilty, but put the idea in the players mind that they could be dealt away.

On the converse....
Young players try hard and take less time off because they want to earn playing time for a couple years, anyway, as they prove their NHL readiness.

Kampf is available, as well, for a look and to cover for injuries

Sooner or later either Q gets players committing to how they must play on a regular basis, or he is made a scout or anything but head coach.. If Q cannot get the players all playing hard, then it is time for him to move along.

AA to MTL still makes some sense, as he's been a ghost all year, and les Habitants badly need a big center.

And 'The Cat' is not ready to play a regular shift in the NHL.

JJ, not sure about your KANE love, he is the worst forward at getting the puck out of the D zone when he has it on his stick. They'd be better having him fly the zone.
- scottak

If Anisimov is a ghost why would Montreal want him?

If Anisimov is a ghost why would Montreal want him?
- DarthKane

Because Galchenyuk is also a ghost? Grass is always greener, right?

Because Galchenyuk is also a ghost? Grass is always greener, right?
- EnzoD

Some comments were made about giving AA away, that won't happen. A trade of AA for Galchenyuk may be more reasonable. But I think I would stick with AA, lower cap hit (albeit his contract is one year longer) and they're both 40-45 point type of players. I know it's still a very small sample, but Anisimov has done much better on face offs this year (54%), weren't poor faceoffs the reason people wanted to trade him last year?

Man, I couldn't believe last night. I went to the game, expecting a lot from the Blackhawks. And the Blues completely dominated them for 50 minutes of the game. Then several power-plays, and the game got interesting.

Only 8 shots on goal through 2 periods? I didn't expect that. Especially with the way the Blues have played so far this season, giving up a lot of shots.

It sucks that we don't play again until March......

Exactly correct. Hossa's loss in terms of leadership on and off the ice surely seems to be missed. 5 straight poop efforts after an amazing 2-0 start. Hossa was the guy who ALWAYS battled over 200 feet and was a role model for everyone (including the current leadership group of 2, 7, 19 + 88). One cannot understate the loss of Hossa on this team both in terms of on-ice ability, and overall attitude/approach to the game.

I have been thinking it for a while, and JJ eluded to it after that disgraceful playoff series vs Nashville....after 2015 the 3 Cup Crew (with the exception of Kaner) seemed to have taken their foot off the gas pedal and seem to be the real part of the "country club atmosphere" in the locker room. It's very difficult to assess a team over 3 weeks, much less 1 horrid game, but I think this team has been trending downward since 2014, and it was only through a superhuman effort from the Core Players in 2015 that they were able to raise the cup with a very incomplete roster. Something has to change, and sooner rather than later. Mentally, physically and emotionally this team doesn't seem to care anymore....or simply isnt that good anymore.

Can Keith + Seabrook defend against top lines effectively anymore? If they can't, then the Hawks are royally (frank)ed and maybe that small window for a 4th Cup has already been closed. The results of 2 + 7 versus the Top Line's of playoff-caliber opponents have been pretty bad. Regardless of Toews' regression, Duncan Keith was arguably the most important Hawk player at nearly 30 minutes per night of ELITE 200ft hockey. IDK if Keith is even close to the level he was at in 2015.....if Keith cannot defend Matthews, Tarasenko, McDavid, ect then the Hawks Cup window is closed.
- EnzoD

100% agree. In perspective, the 2015 Cup could be viewed as an unexpected bonus.

One personnel move I would make is get Matthew Highmore up from Rockford, give him a few games. Kid is talented, works hard and plays much bigger than his size. Puck seems to follow him.

I think the other thing is happening tonight, Oesterle in for (perhaps) Forsling.

Dunno how Forsberg will hold up against what may end up being another 40 SA tonight, but I feel pretty confident the kid will battle.

Maybe tonight is a bit of a turnaround against the Oil who i hear have not been great so far.
- John Jaeckel

Highmore is a little green but he's a player and he has some big time wheels. Sooner or later he's going to get into the Hawks lineup and push somebody like Kero or AA out of his way.

Highmore is a little green but he's a player and he has some big time wheels. Sooner or later he's going to get into the Hawks lineup and push somebody like Kero or AA out of his way.
- RickJ

cant figure out Highmore nickname. Highmorzer? Highmorzy? Higher?

Man, I couldn't believe last night. I went to the game, expecting a lot from the Blackhawks. And the Blues completely dominated them for 50 minutes of the game. Then several power-plays, and the game got interesting.

Only 8 shots on goal through 2 periods? I didn't expect that. Especially with the way the Blues have played so far this season, giving up a lot of shots.

It sucks that we don't play again until March......


- carcus

Alas, your city remains Cupless. Revel in the details.

Some comments were made about giving AA away, that won't happen. A trade of AA for Galchenyuk may be more reasonable. But I think I would stick with AA, lower cap hit (albeit his contract is one year longer) and they're both 40-45 point type of players. I know it's still a very small sample, but Anisimov has done much better on face offs this year (54%), weren't poor faceoffs the reason people wanted to trade him last year?
- DarthKane

I don't expect AA to be just given away for a really cheap price. At some point he and his contract goes. I would not expect a lot for an aging center whose shelf life as a top two line center may be about two years, top. He has to be with the right players because his skating is average and in some instances he will slow down or reduce the effectiveness of fast skilled linemates. So AA can help and also minimize the line he is on. On the other hand, Galyenchuk should fetch a descent return, although not worthy of the value such a high pick was expected to attain

Really I just want to shake up the players and see Q and staff establish | implement a better coaching job. They need forwards to help get the puck out by proper positioning and interfering with the forecheck on us. I am uncertain what value I would ascribe AA but I do not think Montreal trades a former #1 for him even if they need a bug center. Maybe AA moves out down the road for a measly draft choice.

Man, I couldn't believe last night. I went to the game, expecting a lot from the Blackhawks. And the Blues completely dominated them for 50 minutes of the game. Then several power-plays, and the game got interesting.

Only 8 shots on goal through 2 periods? I didn't expect that. Especially with the way the Blues have played so far this season, giving up a lot of shots.

It sucks that we don't play again until March......


- carcus

Oh you haven't heard? We aren't good anymore. We suck now. Times have changed.

I guess the rest of the league still needs some more time to fully realize how far we've fallen...

100% agree. In perspective, the 2015 Cup could be viewed as an unexpected bonus.
- RaleighHawk

Well honestly the only holes on that team were the bottom pairing on defense.

Top 4 was otherworldly, as was the goaltending. Also we still had elite forward depth that year with probably the best top end forward firepower. So, I'm not at all surprised we won that Cup. We were probably the best team in the league that year and proved it in the playoffs.

Oh you haven't heard? We aren't good anymore. We suck now. Times have changed.

I guess the rest of the league still needs some more time to fully realize how far we've fallen...
- SimpleJack

You call aging top defensemen = to their former self? Do you see the equivalent players to the core that was here in the Cup victories? If a Forsling was not ready for the show, he prepped more at the AHL. But now Forsling is seen in the light of what he can do, not so much as his deficiencies. You will also see that Q is behind the times with some of his coaching system. I grant however the powerplay is still a farce. And I am not implying a dry sense of humor. Oh btw Toews isn't the same great player