Captain? In many regards, respectfully. Many.

Coach? No solution there. But he's accountable for the state of hawks play, and it's been stagnant for 2 years.

If you wanna be the new Red Wings, by all means stick with Q and go "la la la la" everytime people notice Toews is now low calorie Toews at twice the markup.

Zetterberg has declined with age, but he didn't break the team's piggy bank doing it. Datsyuk became brittle with age and retired.

There's your Toews and Kane, except they both rake in 21M of cap space.

They're still an ok team, why not change the system to take advantage of the makeup, instead of sticking with stick-a-fork-in-it DONE game plans that rely on aging superstars?
- kinigitt

Yours is an excellent reference and I sure hope Stan has\will not have blinders blocking his view into the Blackhawk Crystal ball.

What do we have in actual cap space right now??

I am now convinced that the style of play is our biggest shortcoming more so than our players. Watching our players being outplayed by inferior VGK players is embarrassing. We get out shot every game simply because when teams have possession in our end, they have open point men because our wingers take to much of a defensive drop toward our goalie. Teams get extended time in our zone and extra shots and than we finally get possession, our players are spent are just are looking to get the puck out and dump it in and get a change. Then the situation starts all over again. Game in game out that is an issue. Watch other team vs us in their defensive zone. Our point men are locked up. I don't know where and when I heard but someone mentioned that Coach Q is coaching like it is 2009. The game has evolved. Being one of the winningest coaches of all time the owner of three Stanley cups seems like Q can be steadfast in his decisions. I think it is time for The Coach Q situation to come full cycle as he was named head coach in a shocking manner replacing a black hawk legend. Coach Q is our legendary coach but we need someone with new ideas of the more modern way of playing hockey. Blackhawks fans deserve better than the lackluster, going through the motion performances we have seen in atleast half of our games. Sorry I don't want to be the one to overreact on one game, but this has been going on for two years, getting worse yearly. Last night was the night I just couldn't take it anymore and did something I have never done before and became ambivalent towards the Hawks winning a game.
- Marylandhawkfan

If things continue without much change, Stan will feel the heat and have to let Q go. It could be his own neck thereafter. Trades in this situation is not only difficult to complete, but of small amount of help. It would be like trying to fix one problem but another issue could erode. There are some Rockford greenhorns and they will at least work hard. I do hope you loose the ambivalence feeling and just be annoyingly pissed. Don't abandon ship

If things continue without much change, Stan will feel the heat and have to let Q go. It could be his own neck thereafter. Trades in this situation is not only difficult to complete, but of small amount of help. It would be like trying to fix one problem but another issue could erode. There are some Rockford greenhorns and they will at least work hard. I do hope you loose the ambivalence feeling and just be annoyingly pissed. Don't abandon ship
- jhawk59

A change in scheme and attitude could make a huge difference. What they are doing now is simply not working. It a may be enough to sneak into the playoffs, but we will get bounced quick.

What do we have in actual cap space right now??
- z1990z

My whole thought on this is the same as it's been forever:

At some point, you have to move "beloved" guys. It might be hard and it's a gamble, but in order to get better and have money to work with, you need to try and move some of your better/staple players in order to get said pieces back and/or some cap relief that will allow you to eventually get a guy(s) down the line.

Everyone likes to talk about the Hawks and this idea of disturbing the core being a huge no-no.

A. Don't you want a core that is getting you results on a regular basis or putting you in a better situation to win?
B. Couldn't you add to or build a new core?

I feel like every year it's the same dance: the cap situation sucks, we can't bring in pieces we'll need because we can bare to part with anyone, so we bring in "under the radar" guys that we hope will work out.

The Hawks lack talent. Every Cup winning team had waves of talent that could make opposing coaches mutter 'dammit' everytime a faceoff came up and a new group came over the boards.

2010: Elite: Kane, Toews, Keith, Hossa, Seabrook, Sharp.
Very Good: Ladd, Byfuglien, Campbell, Hjalmarsson, Versteeg
Good: Bolland, Brouwer, Madden

Only 'weak' spots were: Burish, Niemi, Hendry, Eager


2013: Elite: Kane, Toews, Keith, Hossa, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson
Very Good: Sharp, Saad, Oduya, Bickell, Crawford
Good: Shaw, Bolland, Frolik, Kruger, Leddy

Only 'weak' spots were: Roszival, Stalberg, Handzus


2015: Elite: Kane, Toews, Keith, Hossa, Hjalmarsson, Crawford
Very Good: Saad, Oduya, Richards, Seabrook
Good: Shaw, Kruger, Vermette, Sharp

Only 'weak' spots were: Timonen, Bickell, Sharp at times, Versteeg, Rundblad


Current Hawks lineup: Elite: Kane, Keith, Crawford
Very Good: Saad, Toews, Seabrook
Good: Panik, Schmaltz, Forsling, Hartman

'Weak' spots: Bouma, Rutta, Oesterle, Sharp, Wingels, Debrincat

We're down to 3 elite players, three very good players, a handful of 'good' players, and a whole lot of average and weak players. A team with this many weak spots won't win a cup unless they find a bunch of magic. The Penguins won with a ton of holes, but all of those 'weak' spots new exactly where to be and exactly what to do. Their 'good' and uncategorized players stepped up into the next level. Guys like Guentzel, Cullen, Hainsey, Daley, Schultz, Rust, Sheary, etc. all stepped up bigtime.

Hawks need to think long and hard about the $4.5 in cap they have. Get a threatening forward who's having a down year (Bennet, Galchenyuk, other almost busts), get a decent puck moving d-man or a forgotten shutdown D the same way we got Oduya. The $4.5 has to catch lightning in a bottle, or Q has to rally these troops to 2013 levels of excellence. Otherwise this is likely another first round exit.

A few things....

I mentioned the idea at the end of the last thread of Hayden moving up and taking either Panik's or Hartman's spot. I like what he's doing so far.

Is Panik a sell high candidate? Does he play enough of a 200 foot game? Someone suggested in the previous thread that Saad is carrying the line, and seems frustrated with Panik, which I suppose is understandable because nobody is going to fill Hossa's shoes anytime soon. Anyway, Panik was found money. What is this guy's true upside? Is this it?

They don't seem to have the same resolve. As much as I appreciate what Q has done here, is it possible that he has lost the room? It's always said that every coach has a shelf life. I suppose Dineen would be the replacement. Almost seemed like he was hired to be the heir apparent.

Is Anisimov playing hurt, as some already asked on here? I tend to give the players the benefit of the doubt when they don't look right. He's not old enough to have declined otherwise. I'd certainly be on the phone with Columbus, because Torts loves that guy.

I think carrying 8 defensemen has hurt the team. Kero is the extra forward and he shouldn't be playing ahead of anyone else, it would be nice for Q to have another option.

I would send down Oesterle and recall Hinostroza, give him a shot at the bottom 6.
- DarthKane

Hinostroza will get crunched as DeBrincat has.
Bring him up, then should insert also a forward ideally possesses more size and willingness to hit. Vinny addition is getting to be perhaps too many small guys in forward rank.

Carrying eight dman allows Q to sit someone whose egregious mistake might serve to hopefully wake him up to making safe sound plays. John J says at least there are a couple things Oesterle can do fairly well. He is your depth or rotating dman, not Franson. Q is forming n opinion on him now...might he come to think of Oesterle as a TVR capable dman whether we say it is a bit of a stretch. Might be...Only a bit of a stretch? Let him play seven games, see what you think. Not sure why Darth Kane appears to disdain his service

The Hawks lack talent. Every Cup winning team had waves of talent that could make opposing coaches mutter 'dammit' everytime a faceoff came up and a new group came over the boards.

2010: Elite: Kane, Toews, Keith, Hossa, Seabrook, Sharp.
Very Good: Ladd, Byfuglien, Campbell, Hjalmarsson, Versteeg
Good: Bolland, Brouwer, Madden

Only 'weak' spots were: Burish, Niemi, Hendry, Eager


2013: Elite: Kane, Toews, Keith, Hossa, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson
Very Good: Sharp, Saad, Oduya, Bickell, Crawford
Good: Shaw, Bolland, Frolik, Kruger, Leddy

Only 'weak' spots were: Roszival, Stalberg, Handzus


2015: Elite: Kane, Toews, Keith, Hossa, Hjalmarsson, Crawford
Very Good: Saad, Oduya, Richards, Seabrook
Good: Shaw, Kruger, Vermette, Sharp

Only 'weak' spots were: Timonen, Bickell, Sharp at times, Versteeg, Rundblad


Current Hawks lineup: Elite: Kane, Keith, Crawford
Very Good: Saad, Toews, Seabrook
Good: Panik, Schmaltz, Forsling, Hartman

'Weak' spots: Bouma, Rutta, Oesterle, Sharp, Wingels, Debrincat

We're down to 3 elite players, three very good players, a handful of 'good' players, and a whole lot of average and weak players. A team with this many weak spots won't win a cup unless they find a bunch of magic. The Penguins won with a ton of holes, but all of those 'weak' spots new exactly where to be and exactly what to do. Their 'good' and uncategorized players stepped up into the next level. Guys like Guentzel, Cullen, Hainsey, Daley, Schultz, Rust, Sheary, etc. all stepped up bigtime.

Hawks need to think long and hard about the $4.5 in cap they have. Get a threatening forward who's having a down year (Bennet, Galchenyuk, other almost busts), get a decent puck moving d-man or a forgotten shutdown D the same way we got Oduya. The $4.5 has to catch lightning in a bottle, or Q has to rally these troops to 2013 levels of excellence. Otherwise this is likely another first round exit.
- ObeseOprah

Generous of you to suggest even making the post season.

Keith? Elite?

Only one "elite" player on this Hawks team, Patrick Kane

But your point is well taken.

There's a lack of talent, a lack of effort, poor coaching, and poor decisions made by the front office.

Add all that up and there is no fix. Too many problems to solve all at once.

Bottom line is we simply aren't that good anymore and everyone should get used to it.

Agree with Highmore. He really stood out to me in pre-season. Skating ability and not scared to dig out pucks. Never was sold on Debrincat and if he doesn't keep his head up he'll end up concussed.

Felt like the Hawks were on the PK all game again. The Hawks need more skill upfront. Period. It seems like the Hawks never have the puck. Can any of the metrics nerds back this up with fancy stats ? Hope everyone is well. Time to spend that Hossa $
- mrpaulish

Right on !! If Bowman is going to sit on his hands and wait to see what he has here, it'll be too late and cost him more down the road. It's pretty obvious what we have here as October comes to a close and really no need to rehash the obvious. There is some depth in Rockford now for once... and moving a couple of them in a deal to bring either the depth dman or preferably a center that wins faceoffs is a must as much NOW as it will be in February. Depth up the middle is desperately needed as Schmaltz is going to be a work in progress at 2C, and that's as long as he stays healthy. Continued head shots like last night again will render him inactive or less effective as the season plays out. Can they identify a center that's available and find a trade partner or what ???

We will start losing ground fast in the conference if standing pat, or wait and see, is their brilliant plan of action.

As for Quenneville........ ah nevermind. He's won 3 cups for a reason right ???

>JJ, outstanding!
>Fair and balanced review
>Third line is indeed a train-wreck, though I think #10 has been fine
>Ten games into the season and at least three games have been total no-shows by the team
>That is not a trend a of an elite team
>Have the PP players and the Power Play coach ever sat together and watched a video of the mess they create night in and night out
>One of the problems of the PP is that the players appear to be allowed to do whatever "their instincts tell them"
>And that includes zone entries
>How's that been working the last several years?
>Lastly, you can lose games, but getting outworked shift after shift in many games this year -- something needs to be done

If things continue without much change, Stan will feel the heat and have to let Q go. It could be his own neck thereafter. Trades in this situation is not only difficult to complete, but of small amount of help. It would be like trying to fix one problem but another issue could erode. There are some Rockford greenhorns and they will at least work hard. I do hope you loose the ambivalence feeling and just be annoyingly pissed. Don't abandon ship
- jhawk59

Jhawk responded to your post in the last thread...here it is... and as JJ mentions who are you going to bring in to suddenly make this a top 4 team...


Hey Jhawk...

Bowman hasn't drafted bad, its his trade record that's hurt this team the last few years...and lest we forget - this is the guy that had to resign David Rundblad after the cup run in 15 when he knew he needed an actual #4 defenseman - which cost this team dearly against the Blues. At the TDL he traded a really good young center in Danault for hot garbage when he needed a defenseman...would could shoulda.

At the same time he's brought in Ladd and the year before Vermette...

Should we go back to the mishandling of the Sharp trade in summer 15 - had Sharpie been moved for picks and Bickell bought out (another bad signing) - cap space was there and you don't lose Saad. Or how bout the Leddy move the summer before (wait until the last possible minute and get crap)...how bout that Ville Pokka...it only took Stan 3 years to figure out he needed move guys at or before the draft with Shaw...nothing like on the job training.

Stan had a nice summer this year and has added some quality younger defensemen and some grit/depth to the bottom lines. However NMCs and overpays certainly have had an effect on shaping the roster. It'll be interesting to see what he does here by the TDL or sooner.

As far as Q - he's been here a long time and it might be time for a new voice in the room and he gets kicked upstairs. But you're talking about a HOF 3 time Cup coach. I don't think it happens that quickly. It certainly would be interesting to see how Stan would operate when its all on him. Personally I don't think Stan has the authority - whacking an assistant is one thing...but this is something different. We'll see how it plays out.

Miserable power play. Anemic, no traffic in front of the net, minimal player movement, the puck circling the perimeter.

Horrible zone exits.

Careless with the puck, too many turnovers in bad areas.

This can be applied to the last few seasons. Different players, same problems. You can figure out the constants.

Still early but looks more and more bowman screwed up he pays 1 mill to franson who isn't playing that 1 mill or could have been use to ger another center with good face off ability. Swicth panik and hayden for few games and see what happens if anything maybe it sends a message to panik to pick it up is play. Send debricant to the minors work on some stuff if he progresses then bring him up like smaltz last year. To me faceoffs d and pp are the glaring problems on this team. Change up the d pairings keith murphy seabrook forsiling rutta kempney. Pp until the hawks stop playing on the perminter than it will be the same old crap 2 people in front shoot the puck fight garbage goals or deflections. Face offs well thats been a hugh problem for awhile . possible trades 2018 or 2019 1st and say grahm knott to buffalo for kane AA and prospect or pick. For jt miller from rangers something to change things up or it will be a lot of the same if this continues Q might be on the chopping block but who replaces him dieen samulason what have they shown to take over.

Still early but looks more and more bowman screwed up he pays 1 mill to franson who isn't playing that 1 mill or could have been use to ger another center with good face off ability. Swicth panik and hayden for few games and see what happens if anything maybe it sends a message to panik to pick it up is play. Send debricant to the minors work on some stuff if he progresses then bring him up like smaltz last year. To me faceoffs d and pp are the glaring problems on this team. Change up the d pairings keith murphy seabrook forsiling rutta kempney. Pp until the hawks stop playing on the perminter than it will be the same old crap 2 people in front shoot the puck fight garbage goals or deflections. Face offs well thats been a hugh problem for awhile . possible trades 2018 or 2019 1st and say grahm knott to buffalo for kane AA and prospect or pick. For jt miller from rangers something to change things up or it will be a lot of the same if this continues Q might be on the chopping block but who replaces him dieen samulason what have they shown to take over.
- Scott1977

Franson is here to placate Q. That's it. I dont mind the depth, but the handling of the D (pairings/playing time) is comical.

When was the last time the hawks scored off a deflection in front of the net on the power play?

When was the last time the hawks scored off a deflection in front of the net on the power play?
- kinigitt

When that crazy guy who wore 65 was here. Its scary going to the net. Somebody might hit you. Knock you down. Heck with that. Lets dance top of the circles.

When that crazy guy who wore 65 was here..
- z1990z

Anisimov ever get PP duty? He's good in close. Maybe swap Hartman out for him on the 2nd unit

Right on !! If Bowman is going to sit on his hands and wait to see what he has here, it'll be too late and cost him more down the road. It's pretty obvious what we have here as October comes to a close and really no need to rehash the obvious. There is some depth in Rockford now for once... and moving a couple of them in a deal to bring either the depth dman or preferably a center that wins faceoffs is a must as much NOW as it will be in February. Depth up the middle is desperately needed as Schmaltz is going to be a work in progress at 2C, and that's as long as he stays healthy. Continued head shots like last night again will render him inactive or less effective as the season plays out. Can they identify a center that's available and find a trade partner or what ???

We will start losing ground fast in the conference if standing pat, or wait and see, is their brilliant plan of action.

As for Quenneville........ ah nevermind. He's won 3 cups for a reason right ???
- Hawkytalk

Cuz he had (frank) you talent that was in their prime

Anisimov ever get PP duty? He's good in close. Maybe swap Hartman out for him on the 2nd unit
- kinigitt

AA does a fine job of planting. Big guy who is hard to move. Q needs to put him there on the PP.

>JJ, outstanding!
>Fair and balanced review
>Third line is indeed a train-wreck, though I think #10 has been fine
>Ten games into the season and at least three games have been total no-shows by the team
>That is not a trend a of an elite team
>Have the PP players and the Power Play coach ever sat together and watched a video of the mess they create night in and night out
>One of the problems of the PP is that the players appear to be allowed to do whatever "their instincts tell them"
>And that includes zone entries
>How's that been working the last several years?
>Lastly, you can lose games, but getting outworked shift after shift in many games this year -- something needs to be done
- SnapitUpstairs

Three ways a game can go. They can win, lose, or get beaten. And there is a difference between getting beaten and losing. When they only play hard for one period that's just plain losing. Nothing constructive about that. At least when they get beaten they could learn a thing or two.

Right on !! If Bowman is going to sit on his hands and wait to see what he has here, it'll be too late and cost him more down the road. It's pretty obvious what we have here as October comes to a close and really no need to rehash the obvious. There is some depth in Rockford now for once... and moving a couple of them in a deal to bring either the depth dman or preferably a center that wins faceoffs is a must as much NOW as it will be in February. Depth up the middle is desperately needed as Schmaltz is going to be a work in progress at 2C, and that's as long as he stays healthy. Continued head shots like last night again will render him inactive or less effective as the season plays out. Can they identify a center that's available and find a trade partner or what ???

We will start losing ground fast in the conference if standing pat, or wait and see, is their brilliant plan of action.

As for Quenneville........ ah nevermind. He's won 3 cups for a reason right ???
- Hawkytalk

That was then, this is now. Some players stepped up.
2010 Big Buff among others. 2013 Bickel and the :17 seconds. 2016 trade deadline help and it will be noted historically as the last Hurrah! How was the PP in each playoff. We fondly recall critics were silenced over the tough enough issue. So really it is remarkable how resilient the teams were because forwards did not support break out, for example when down 3-1 to Wings.

Coach Q had issues but it was the right core augmented by the GM. Sometimes I think we got favorable match ups along the way. But now Q is on call and he needs to change some strategy and or make it work with a much less capable crew.

Give him credit. But if he doesn't get this team in a better compete mode and we are hoovering near .500, I believe McDonough is going to call Stan for a chat and Stan better have some good answers. Just my 2 cents

My thoughts on the captain...

He's a great player and everyone would love to have him... but not at 10.5 million. At this point he's taking up too much cap space for the amount he produces (A player making that much shouldn't need to ask the GM for a trade to get someone to "make him better" (Saad)). You can get his point totals for half the price, (look at a guy like Tavares, 5.5 cap hit this year). And spare me the greatest captain in sports BS. Having the greatest captain doesn't guarentee you cups, having the best team does and it's pretty hard to put together the best team when you have such high cap players performing at roughly half their worth. Toews was ranked 25th in points for Centers last year and 98th out of a 100 for face-off percentage. Not nearly good enough for someone taking up space that could be helpful elsewhere.
- Toew Drags 4 Daze

Great points........but.........do you or anybody on this board think that Toews could ever be moved ??? I think the whole McDonough marketing scheme would collapse if it could ever happen. Toews and Kane are here for life I fear, and they'll continue to try and fit the pieces that make them competitive. As for Bowman's presser last May after the 1st round debacle when he said that this is "unacceptable" ??? I'm sure he feels he's made progress in the changes he's made with the additions of Saad, Murphy, Wingels, Bouma, etc....... but once again it all comes back to the next steps down from the ladder.......... Coach and Captain....... and how are they leading this team to avoid the same old 1st round exit or worse yet, miss the playoffs entirely. Their non-compete level has returned after 2 games of aggressive play to start the season. There's simply no reason for this team to continue to play with no enthusiasm and no intensity until the final minutes of last night's game...... and others so far this season. Oh wait.. maybe it was just a one game hangover from their "bonding" 2 days in Vegas. Yeah right !!