Can you see Toews moving
down the depth chart. Not yet. But let's see how his and the team's season goes.
- jhawk59

Oh yea. I'm not rallying for him to be traded. I was just trying to point out that some people's thought process that a player can 100% never be traded for reasons A, B, C is kind of silly--in my opinion, at least.

Keith? Elite?

Only one "elite" player on this Hawks team, Patrick Kane

But your point is well taken.

There's a lack of talent, a lack of effort, poor coaching, and poor decisions made by the front office.

Add all that up and there is no fix. Too many problems to solve all at once.

Bottom line is we simply aren't that good anymore and everyone should get used to it.
- SimpleJack

Good comments! The Hawks are not an elite team anymore but our management still thinks our core players can still help us win another cup. After two seasons of one and out you got to let loyalty go and be a seller(especially Toews/Seabrook and AA. Yes, Stan will have to probably eat 35% of Toews and Seabrooks salary but their value will be even less next year if not done. If management decides to just wait and see...the Hawk will become another Detroit or Vacouver ...and they been irrelevant for over 5 years.

IMO, Hawks need to clean house ...new younger coaches and possibly new GM. Missing the playoffs for a couple of years might be the best remedy to draft a couple of top young forwards and defensmen. Just barely making the playoff will never get you young top line players.

P.S. I will be one of many Season TKT owners who will not renew my TKT next year if The team, coaches and management continues to bring out on the ice a team that shows no emotions, plays like crap and coaches are clueless in getting the players to perform.

You just can't put 12 8 88 together. They will be run constantly and they will get pinned in their own zone a lot.

40 19 14
20 8 88
10 15 38
57 Hino 17

Send Cat down for a stretch. I think trying to fit him on this roster is a problem right now and if he is not giving you offense then not much there at all.

See how the above lines go for a bit. I know Saad was brought here to play with Toews but he has been very dominant with Kane at times. I like that top line Hayden will go get pucks and so will Panik. Hayden can go park infront of the net too. You can actually better utilize Saad's speed with Kane and Schmaltz.
- bhawks2241

The team needs a radical line shake up. Aint working right now. Send DBC down. Hino or Kampf up. Im all for 40 flanking 19. Let Saad play with Kaner. Back in '14, the 20 65 88 line was awesome. Kings had no answer for them in the playoffs.

getting run
- bhawks2241

That's a fair point, but they are getting run constantly as is. Especially 38. They'd at least need to be respected a bit more as a scoring threat. Nobody is afraid of Hartman out there.

The team needs a radical line shake up. Aint working right now. Send DBC down. Hino or Kampf up. Im all for 40 flanking 19. Let Saad play with Kaner. Back in '14, the 20 65 88 line was awesome. Kings had no answer for them in the playoffs.
- z1990z

Bring Shaw back!

Bring Shaw back!
- nickmo2699

We need his kind of emotional energy.

We need his kind of emotional energy.
- z1990z

Hartman was Shaw 2.0, but seems like he's regressed a bit.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and talks like a duck......its a duck.

I'm of the opinion that Q has become a lame duck.

How he handled the team in the St. Louis series, his stubborn inability to adjust against Nashville, and the frustrating travesty of special teams for years. Fingers will point in many directions, and to certain players, but a fair amount absolutely must go to him.

He used to be masterful of adjusting things on the fly, and would at times embarrassingly out coach his opponent. He's declined in this respect, more so than Toews has a player IMO.

As your brokerage statement says, past performance does not guarantee future results. Resting on your laurels may be comfy, but it doesn't do squat in the here and now. Pens have 2 cups largely because of Sullivan – they were barely treading water, and then a fire was ignited and the team was transformed. There is a lesson there. There are not even any sparks in Chicago right now, and it appears that Q’s match may sadly look to be extinguished. Thank you for the trio of cups at least.

If things continue without much change, Stan will feel the heat and have to let Q go. It could be his own neck thereafter. Trades in this situation is not only difficult to complete, but of small amount of help. It would be like trying to fix one problem but another issue could erode. There are some Rockford greenhorns and they will at least work hard. I do hope you loose the ambivalence feeling and just be annoyingly pissed. Don't abandon ship
- jhawk59

Thanks for the encouragement. Our window of championships is shrinking if not already closed with this current core. I just don't like what I see to start the season minus that Pitt game

When was the last time the hawks scored off a deflection in front of the net on the power play?
- kinigitt

It was in 1896 against the now defunct Witchita Homesteaders, which gave the Hawks a 3-2 lead. Game was called 5 minutes later due to darkness

Season still so early.

I don't believe in busting out the pitchforks and torches to run Q out of town.

Could be worse. They could have the Coyotes record.

No kidding. Out worked by a team put together over the summer.
- z1990z

Kane is the only elite player left on this team, and Toews has neither the skating ability or the puck handling skills nor the shot that Kane has. He's decent and that's all.
The rest of the team is very good to good to average skill wise. The problem with the Hawks is that they THINK they're better than they are, that they'll score, they'll win without the kind of effort we see from the fledgling LVK. This team as constructed is simply not playing hard enough--the blowout of the Pens was a fluke they shouldn't have believed in.

Ohhh, would I like Paranin back on the 2nd line, with Duchene and Kane....

Hartman was Shaw 2.0, but seems like he's regressed a bit.
- Hank3Henshaw

Shaw 2.0 is an averagely skilled, high energy player who does dumb penalties, this is damning with faint praise category...

Q is not the problem. Tough to coach a pile of junk handed to you by a GM who thinks he is doing a good job.
Bowman is a JOKE!
Contracts is what has this team handcuffed. Plus players like Panic Kempny Forslin Sharp Seabrook AA are really bad.

Time to really unlosd the garbage.

Seabrook & AA to EDM for Lucic & Russell

Then move Hartman Forslin & a number 1 to COL for Duchy.

Just examples of really what needs to happen.

Hino needs to play over many right now.

Bowman NOT Q is the problem.

What do we have in actual cap space right now??
- z1990z

breaking--Toews to the Yotes for Doan.....more as this develops

Season still so early.

I don't believe in busting out the pitchforks and torches to run Q out of town.

Could be worse. They could have the Coyotes record.
- Hank3Henshaw

At least they are in the running for #1 pick.

Keith? Elite?

Only one "elite" player on this Hawks team, Patrick Kane

But your point is well taken.

There's a lack of talent, a lack of effort, poor coaching, and poor decisions made by the front office.

Add all that up and there is no fix. Too many problems to solve all at once.

Bottom line is we simply aren't that good anymore and everyone should get used to it.
- SimpleJack

Sad, but exactly true.

[quote=matt_ahrens]To my eye, Toews looks good this year.

You need to use both eyes...

Toews cap hit - Bergeron makes 6.8 so less than 10.5 and more than 6.8. Maybe 8.5. Someone was going to pay him that money and this is a tiresome argument.

Anyway, that was a painful game to watch. Just garbage hockey. The 4th line is an absolute dumpster fire. I can't believe anyone thinks they're playing well. They're skating around in circles real hard but getting smoked all over the ice.

The third line has two shooty stand in the circle guys and one get to the net guy. None of those players are creative and AA is the only one that can grind at all on the boards. Who is going to win the puck there? How are they supposed to set each other up? Are we surprised they're not creating? One of Sharp or Dinglecat needs to go 2nd line and Hartman needs to be back in the bottom 6 where he belongs.

Also, Seabrook was awful. Again. Forsling and Murphy were garbage too but Seabrook was special again. The only reason him and Keith were above water were because the top line. Woof.

Brandon Saad is a man though.

Guys are playing out of position and with players they should not be playing with. Debrincat on the right side, for a shooter, who has only played the left side, without someone to create, is asinine and is kind of a big coaching problem IMO. Moreover, some of the players just don't fit and that's on the GM.

Maybe they figure it out, but that game was so putrid. Friday is going to be an interesting game. And Varmalov Saturday. Fun weekend.

Best case scenario, with this group, they make it a round in the playoffs lose in the second and are in better shape for next year. I was super optimistic but after watching that last one, yikes.

I'd adjust and either send Debrincat down or put him on the left side of someone who can get him the puck in a position to have success, Or just get the puck (like with Toews and Panik maybe). Second, I'd tell Kempny, Keith and Forsling to advance the puck with their feet whenever they can to open up the outlet again. Can't get any worse.
- fattybeef

Bouma is first in Fenwick and sixth in Corsi on the team. Not sure how much more you want out of a fourth liner.

All that said, i agree wholeheartedly with the rest of the post, especially the insight about 12—who is what we (well some of we) thought he was: a guy who can fire the puck if someone can get it to him. Otherwise he is somewhere between non-factor and detriment due to usually at least one really bad and bad-timed puck decision a game.

The problem is how do you get those guys with 12 without breaking up the line with your three best possession players (20-19-14) or putting him with 8 and 88, which looks great in camp scrimmages and NHL 17, but is a recipe for disaster in terms of puck retrieval, net-front presence and concussions (which is why they haven't done it).

Answer: right now, you don't. He should probably be in Rockford working on his overall game at the pro level.

I would bring up Highmore and/or Hinostroza and see if they can inject some more energy and speed. i would also move the boat anchor down to L4. Bowman screwed the pooch by signing him to that deal with a year left on his old one. it just wasn't smart.

Sharp, meh, I have no issue with him as a 13th forward, but clearly he is pretty much just two years further down the road from where he was in July 2015: a former goal scorer and versatile 2-way player in decline.

Bouma is first in Fenwick and sixth in Corsi on the team. Not sure how much more you want out of a fourth liner.

All that said, i agree wholeheartedly with the rest of the post, especially the insight about 12—who is what we (well some of we) thought he was: a guy who can fire the puck if someone can get it to him. Otherwise he is somewhere between non-factor and detriment due to usually at least one really bad and bad-timed puck decision a game.

The problem is how do you get those guys with 12 without breaking up the line with your three best possession players (20-19-14) or putting him with 8 and 88, which looks great in camp scrimmages and NHL 17, but is a recipe for disaster in terms of puck retrieval, net-front presence and concussions (which is why they haven't done it).

Answer: right now, you don't. He should probably be in Rockford working on his overall game at the pro level.

I would bring up Highmore and/or Hinostroza and see if they can inject some more energy and speed. i would also move the boat anchor down to L4. Bowman screwed the pooch by signing him to that deal with a year left on his old one. it just wasn't smart.

Sharp, meh, I have no issue with him as a 13th forward, but clearly he is pretty much just two years further down the road from where he was in July 2015: a former goal scorer and versatile 2-way player in decline.
- John Jaeckel

Anisimov to line 4 - which of Bouma-Wingels-Hayden do you move out - Hayden up to line 2 maybe, Hartman down to 3 (my eyes don't see much accomplishment by him with 8 and 88), AdB to Rockfish (he's a scorer, as you point out, with a very good and accurate shot - but in 10 games, he hasn't been able to figure out how to get into position to get his shot off - only 14 SOG in the 10 games).

Anisimov to line 4 - which of Bouma-Wingels-Hayden do you move out - Hayden up to line 2 maybe, Hartman down to 3 (my eyes don't see much accomplishment by him with 8 and 88), AdB to Rockfish (he's a scorer, as you point out, with a very good and accurate shot - but in 10 games, he hasn't been able to figure out how to get into position to get his shot off - only 14 SOG in the 10 games).
- StLBravesFan

Do we see AA in some type of trade that lands Evander? That would shake things up
Galchenyuk and Duchene will work too. We need more speed at wing.

Bouma is first in Fenwick and sixth in Corsi on the team. Not sure how much more you want out of a fourth liner.

All that said, i agree wholeheartedly with the rest of the post, especially the insight about 12—who is what we (well some of we) thought he was: a guy who can fire the puck if someone can get it to him. Otherwise he is somewhere between non-factor and detriment due to usually at least one really bad and bad-timed puck decision a game.

The problem is how do you get those guys with 12 without breaking up the line with your three best possession players (20-19-14) or putting him with 8 and 88, which looks great in camp scrimmages and NHL 17, but is a recipe for disaster in terms of puck retrieval, net-front presence and concussions (which is why they haven't done it).

Answer: right now, you don't. He should probably be in Rockford working on his overall game at the pro level.

I would bring up Highmore and/or Hinostroza and see if they can inject some more energy and speed. i would also move the boat anchor down to L4. Bowman screwed the pooch by signing him to that deal with a year left on his old one. it just wasn't smart.

Sharp, meh, I have no issue with him as a 13th forward, but clearly he is pretty much just two years further down the road from where he was in July 2015: a former goal scorer and versatile 2-way player in decline.
- John Jaeckel

Does Highmore play center? Wouldn't mind seeing him/hino center a Sharp Hartman line.

DCat needs to be sent down. He really can't do anything right now except set-up and wait in a goal scoring area. If he can maintain his position. I see NHL D-men pushing him off pucks and out of position with one arm.

He also still seems to be gassed 30 secs into every shift. It is very noticeable in his skating. There is some legit NHL skill but he is not ready for the NHL.

You just can't put 12 8 88 together. They will be run constantly and they will get pinned in their own zone a lot.

40 19 14
20 8 88
10 15 38
57 Hino 17

Send Cat down for a stretch. I think trying to fit him on this roster is a problem right now and if he is not giving you offense then not much there at all.

See how the above lines go for a bit. I know Saad was brought here to play with Toews but he has been very dominant with Kane at times. I like that top line Hayden will go get pucks and so will Panik. Hayden can go park infront of the net too. You can actually better utilize Saad's speed with Kane and Schmaltz.
- bhawks2241

100% aligned with you here fella.

This is exactly what I would do.

I respect the committment to defending Toews, but the guy simply has not been a $10.5 million dollar player since the 2015 Cup Run. His skating ability has deteriorated and therefore he cannot create separation between himself and the defender. Yes he still wins puck battles, is a great defensive player, and wins a lot of faceoffs....but the Hawks need him to drive the offense at that Cap Hit. Making plays with the puck to create offense in the O-zone, and leading the rush in transition. There was another level of play that we saw from Toews from 2009-2015 that simply hasn't been there since he lifted the Cup in 2015.

When you combine the fact that his team shows up not ready almost every night, and it's really difficult to defend the guy who was my favorite player during the 3 Cup Run. Is it a back issue? Concussions? A lack of desire/drive that separated him from other players through the early part of his career? Whatever the reason, he NEEDS to be an impact player like Kane, Crosby, Ovechkin, McDavid, Matthews, Eichel, ect on a nightly basis. The talent on this team has been diluted because of his contract and Patrick Kane's contract. As poor as the team looked last night, Kane still had MULTIPLE great offensive plays and looks at the net (he was 1" from tying the game and got post). I've been trying to give Toews the benefit of the doubt, but the issues with this team start at the top....Toews, Seabrook and Keith are not what they were when this team was Elite.
- EnzoD

Exactly....Toews has not been playing at his salary level for over two years...he is no longer a first line player, period. As long as he is on this team he is hurting the bottom line because of the salary....same goes for Seabs.
Till the franchise can move on from these two salaries this team will not win another cup or will be lucky to go deep in the playoffs. When you struggle and lose against an expansion team and you can barely beat the worst team in the league then it says a lot about where this team is headed.....yeah Q is a great coach and yeah Toews was once elite and yeah he sells a lot of jerseys but their shelf life is pretty much over and the product is stale and old....time for a big change if you want try and be a cup contender once again....Kane is still elite but the window is smaller every year....takes balls to make unpopular moves (and I'm not talking about moving #4 or the Saad trade) I mean wholesale changes and a different way of doing things....lets see if the GM and owners have balls? Somehow I doubt that will happen...

100% aligned with you here fella.

This is exactly what I would do.
- TyCamScore

Wouldn't mind seeing Hino/Highmore up either as JJ mentioned. Sharp Hino Hartman would be interesting to watch for a bit. Anisimov can go to the 4th line for a bit.

I want to see a third line that can score some and wreak havoc with speed and aggression.