Someone on Reddit (going by the user name "Patrick Kane") posted this excerpt from Ken Dryden's book where he discusses what it's like being on a team and in the heads of players who have won three Cups and are facing a decline. Very interesting.

https://imgur.com/a/YFfy9
- pdx2ord

The ONLY positive thing we have on our side is that we have the Bowman’s, mainly Scotty who has lived through this type of situation. This team needs to come together, and maybe it propels them because they know the window is closing.

BUT we must find a way to acquire a player like Duchene to really have a chance to win another cup with this group.

Scary times.

Not only are you a whiny little child, but you are also a moron.

Seriously, you bring NOTHING to the conversation - you are as clueless as you are obnoxious.

Now go take your nappie, and let the adults speak!!!!

NO ONE WANTS TO HEAR FROM YOU!!!! TAKE THE CLUE!!!!!!
- dahawks8819

Thought talking politics at HB wasn't allowed?

Remember the good old days when the only wonder twin anyone bieetched about was kane.
Some want to throw the youth under the bus all the time. The youth is not the problem.
You can't have it both ways, we all want to show support and loyalty to the core that won three cups, Then get used to sub-par hockey teams. And in my opinion that is all that Seabrook's contract was(loyalty). He was already regressing at the time he signed that contract.

How long have the Hawks preferred, no insisted, on making 19 passes and scoring instead of winning 4 puck battles and making two passes and scoring? Since 2011 when Vancouver showed if you line 4 up at the blueline you are 90% of the way to beating the Hawks?

For how many yrs has a Hawk fan turned the game off in the 2nd period?

What I see today I've seen for 5-6 yrs, 20 minute efforts. StanBow brings in some energy and grit but they can't carry a disinterested core and a coach with no answers both on and off the ice.

This from a core player written in 2011, a future HOF Hawk, on what you see today going back to 2011. If any of what you see today as a Hawk fan is new to you you haven't been paying attention for years.

Duncan Kieth opens up, admits to lacking interest this season: http://thethirdmanin.com/...ing-interest-this-season/

oh sure 10.5 mildo, 3 cup winning centers at 29 get traded all the time at the trade deadline....that suggestion is absurd...

trade deadline deals are close to a 100% for expiring contracts with draft choices or prospects going the other way...seabs and toews aren't going anywhere this year...
- bogiedoc

Nope! They are not.
Two worst contracts on the team.

How long have the Hawks preferred, no insisted, on making 19 passes and scoring instead of winning 4 puck battles and making two passes and scoring? Since 2011 when Vancouver showed if you line 4 up at the blueline you are 90% of the way to beating the Hawks?

For how many yrs has a Hawk fan turned the game off in the 2nd period?

What I see today I've seen for 5-6 yrs, 20 minute efforts. StanBow brings in some energy and grit but they can't carry a disinterested core and a coach with no answers both on and off the ice.

This from a core player written in 2011, a future HOF Hawk, on what you see today going back to 2011. If any of what you see today as a Hawk fan is new to you you haven't been paying attention for years.

Duncan Kieth opens up, admits to lacking interest this season: http://thethirdmanin.com/...ing-interest-this-season/
- Mr Ricochet

he is now in the declining value years of his contract, 2 cups later, a ton of hits, a bad knee, and two consectutive 1st round cya's now 34 years old...he has a helluva lot more motivation for his disinterest than 2011

Meanwhile Hawks fans there's a game tonight...

Hawks at the Lanche - for some reason the Hawks always have trouble in that building.

Wondering if we'll see another snooze fest from the offense this evening. Meanwhile Hawks are what 2nd to last in shots against. Crawford is your MVP.
- DK002

DK,

I'm traveling, can't access PMs til I get home in a few hours. Thx

It’s not us that would be against a Cubs-like rebuild - it’s the casual fan, who would stop buy8ng the sweaters and hats and...tickets.

Which means Rocky and McDonough would be against it - not wanting to return to those good old days before Toews and Kane.

The Cubs could go through Epstein’s rebuild without losing much support or revenue. As the fifth team in a five-team market (ok - 6 team market if you include the Fire, which almost no one does) - the franchise couldn’t afford to do that without the Wirtz family putting in instead of taking out.

They’re gonna milk this group as far as they can.
- StLBravesFan

Comparing a rebuild in hockey to baseball is comparing apples to elephants due to a hard (flat earth) salary cap in hockey with little to no constraints in baseball.

How long has AZ and EDM been rebuilding and how many playoff games have they won? ....... Not agreeing or disagreeing whether or not to rebuild only that it's a different animal in hockey and harder to do than baseball.

Mark Lazerus‏Verified account
@MarkLazerus
Artem Anisimov on how to fix the power play: "Shoot the puck, retrieve the puck, shoot again."

i like that plan...worth a try instead of pass the puck, pass the puck and look for the damn back door and screw up a cross ice pass
- bogiedoc

Yes, but puck movement is great as long as it's fast, purposeful and players are moving to. The Hawks just pass it around the perimeter most of the time, no player movement.

he is now in the declining value years of his contract, 2 cups later, a ton of hits, a bad knee, and two consectutive 1st round cya's now 34 years old...he has a helluva lot more motivation for his disinterest than 2011
- bogiedoc

If you are saying Kieth, and other core players, have 50,000 more reasons for lost interest today as opposed to 2011 I agree 100% and in some ways understand that. This is an absolutely brutal sport on both the body and mind and a flat "earth" cap makes it worse for a guy like Keith as he forced to play too many important minutes in declining yrs due to losing talent yearly.

But Kieth in particular has shown he will "lose interest" in his prime as his own words in 2011 attest.

Yes, but puck movement is great as long as it's fast, purposeful and players are moving to. The Hawks just pass it around the perimeter most of the time, no player movement.
- John Jaeckel

And then - with that “no player movement” - try to go cross ice with a pass thru several opposition sticks....

Yes, but puck movement is great as long as it's fast, purposeful and players are moving to. The Hawks just pass it around the perimeter most of the time, no player movement.
- John Jaeckel

In one of the 6 USHL games I watched so far this weekend one of the PBP guys said an NHL coach told him that 85% or so goals in the NHL are scored on rebounds. Don't know if that's true but the point was taken.

Yes, but puck movement is great as long as it's fast, purposeful and players are moving to. The Hawks just pass it around the perimeter most of the time, no player movement.
- John Jaeckel

Tab it "four corners"?

I don't know that the Hawks are as bad as everybody is saying. They still have the most dangerous offensive weapon in the league: Kane. They need to put him with the right people. J.J. mentioned that was a reason Evander Kane was being looked at. I would suggest moving Saad down with Kane. They played great together in 2014 playoffs with Shaw as the center. I think they might be somewhat more dangerous with Scmaltz as the center. And, when Kane is going it seems to ignite the whole team. As for who's more to blame Quuenneville or Bowman, I'd have to go with Quuenneville as more blameworthy. Bowman brought in Nick Leddy in a trade for Cam Barker. For some reason, Queenneville didn't like him and he went in the defensemen's doghouse. He was traded because Queenevville didn't want him. Leddy is a guy who can skate like the wind and carry the puck himself into the offensive end. The blue line trap doesn't work against him. And then, after Leddy got out of the doghouse Trevor Daley went right in. Another puck moving d-man. (Notice a trend here? It seems Queeneville doesn't like puck moving d-men. One wonders what he would have done with Bobby Orr or Paul Coffey when they were rookies.) And he got traded to Pittsburgh where a rookie coach used him to win not one, but two Stanley Cups. And the last point i want to make about Qeuenneville is what he did with Dale Weis when they got him from Montreal for the Cup run in 2016. He sat and sat and sat. Finally, in about the fifth game against St. Louis he was put in and he played good. As for the contracts, I don't remember people complainig at the time when Toews got his, although I do believe the Seabrook contract was inexplicable.

How about move the aging core guys at the deadline for young nhl ready talent. I'd still like to see what this team could do under an offensive minded head coach before it came to that, but if this team is on the outside looking in come the trade deadline and no coaching switch has been made, then yes you have to look at moving the guys with the most value to get the most value. 19 and 7 have to be gone. Can you imagine the return Toews alone would land you at the deadline? Teams overpay all the time for garbage players, imagine what he could fetch. Although trying to find a playoff team with enough cap room for him might prove to be difficult.

There is still a lot of talent on this team, young talent at that, and I don't think a complete rebuild would be necessary if they moved the right guys.
- Toew Drags 4 Daze

This is probably the most likely scenario. But they need to get their act together and I do not know if the players or coaching will come together. There is friction for reasons we will later most likely read sadly as the end of the Cup run years. I do not believe Q has support, not full support and his coaching issues - which were overcome by a team that could step up when it had to - is no longer but a shadow of its former self.

It’s not us that would be against a Cubs-like rebuild - it’s the casual fan, who would stop buy8ng the sweaters and hats and...tickets.

Which means Rocky and McDonough would be against it - not wanting to return to those good old days before Toews and Kane.

The Cubs could go through Epstein’s rebuild without losing much support or revenue. As the fifth team in a five-team market (ok - 6 team market if you include the Fire, which almost no one does) - the franchise couldn’t afford to do that without the Wirtz family putting in instead of taking out.

They’re gonna milk this group as far as they can.
- StLBravesFan

I hope not. If management is going to milk this team the UNITED CENTER will be half empty in two years and Hawk jersey sales will sell like the Sox gear...non existent.

How long have the Hawks preferred, no insisted, on making 19 passes and scoring instead of winning 4 puck battles and making two passes and scoring? Since 2011 when Vancouver showed if you line 4 up at the blueline you are 90% of the way to beating the Hawks?

For how many yrs has a Hawk fan turned the game off in the 2nd period?

What I see today I've seen for 5-6 yrs, 20 minute efforts. StanBow brings in some energy and grit but they can't carry a disinterested core and a coach with no answers both on and off the ice.

This from a core player written in 2011, a future HOF Hawk, on what you see today going back to 2011. If any of what you see today as a Hawk fan is new to you you haven't been paying attention for years.

Duncan Kieth opens up, admits to lacking interest this season: http://thethirdmanin.com/...ing-interest-this-season/
- Mr Ricochet

A coach and or GM has to make the games fun, challenging, worthwhile. The feeling Keith has is not totally surprising given Q, his system, and everything Keith has been through. The solution to whatever extent it works is some new players, new coach, no more idiotic contracts

I don't know that the Hawks are as bad as everybody is saying. They still have the most dangerous offensive weapon in the league: Kane. They need to put him with the right people. J.J. mentioned that was a reason Evander Kane was being looked at. I would suggest moving Saad down with Kane. They played great together in 2014 playoffs with Shaw as the center. I think they might be somewhat more dangerous with Scmaltz as the center. And, when Kane is going it seems to ignite the whole team. As for who's more to blame Quuenneville or Bowman, I'd have to go with Quuenneville as more blameworthy. Bowman brought in Nick Leddy in a trade for Cam Barker. For some reason, Queenneville didn't like him and he went in the defensemen's doghouse. He was traded because Queenevville didn't want him. Leddy is a guy who can skate like the wind and carry the puck himself into the offensive end. The blue line trap doesn't work against him. And then, after Leddy got out of the doghouse Trevor Daley went right in. Another puck moving d-man. (Notice a trend here? It seems Queeneville doesn't like puck moving d-men. One wonders what he would have done with Bobby Orr or Paul Coffey when they were rookies.) And he got traded to Pittsburgh where a rookie coach used him to win not one, but two Stanley Cups. And the last point i want to make about Qeuenneville is what he did with Dale Weis when they got him from Montreal for the Cup run in 2016. He sat and sat and sat. Finally, in about the fifth game against St. Louis he was put in and he played good. As for the contracts, I don't remember people complainig at the time when Toews got his, although I do believe the Seabrook contract was inexplicable.
- tim62b

I agree with this post

Hawks embarrass themselves in the playoffs two straight years, Bowman sees red and calls for big changes, big changes result in a sub 500 team 1/8 into the season. They can talk about "big picture" all they want but things have to be getting tense in the front office right about now.
- Toew Drags 4 Daze

Absolutely correct. This team is basically in LAST PLACE in their division since Minnesota has 3 games in hand behind us, and we're 2pts ahead of them. It's not even November yet and the coaching decisions are frightening....the GM decisions questionable (contracts), and players are beginning to speak out on things.

MANAGEMENT had better make a decision on the continued riff between Quenneville and Bowman because maybe the play on the ice is a reflection of what we fans don't actually see behind the scenes. There's tension with Q's decisions on who plays /who sits (Murphy). Questions on Debrincat and why he's been all over the line adjustments. The HORRIFIC PP.
The lackluster play of all the CORE. The great start of Brandon Saad, then what ??
The AA slow train, the Seabrook falling down all over himself repeatedly, the Toews continued dilemma, the drop off of Kane, the mess of Duncan Keith's play of late, the Hartman stupidity on penalties, on and on. The only bright spots seem to be Crawford's consistency, the 4th line impact of their assigned roles, and the continued improvement of the young D. And that too has had its moments of closing one eye and cringing.

There should NOT be these many questions in October.....especially after the promising pre season with Kampf, Vinny, Dauphin, Fortin, Highmore etc.
Again. ....who's in charge here, Q or Bowman? Something has to change fast or this is a LAST PLACE team with 3 Hall of Fame players still in their prime and that Mr. Mac is totally unacceptable.

MANAGEMENT is on the clock right now to figure this out and make the changes, not wait till game 40 as some have suggested. This has been coming for 2 years now. Hopefully, this management group has had a plan in place all along for this scenario that we've all seen coming.

How long have the Hawks preferred, no insisted, on making 19 passes and scoring instead of winning 4 puck battles and making two passes and scoring? Since 2011 when Vancouver showed if you line 4 up at the blueline you are 90% of the way to beating the Hawks?

For how many yrs has a Hawk fan turned the game off in the 2nd period?

What I see today I've seen for 5-6 yrs, 20 minute efforts. StanBow brings in some energy and grit but they can't carry a disinterested core and a coach with no answers both on and off the ice.

This from a core player written in 2011, a future HOF Hawk, on what you see today going back to 2011. If any of what you see today as a Hawk fan is new to you you haven't been paying attention for years.

Duncan Kieth opens up, admits to lacking interest this season: http://thethirdmanin.com/...ing-interest-this-season/
- Mr Ricochet

Unless it’s caused by my iPad, this story is literally (not virtually) unreadable, the way it’s presented, but what I did get makes me wonder - if this was written over six years ago, what relevance does it have to today?

Someone on Reddit (going by the user name "Patrick Kane") posted this excerpt from Ken Dryden's book where he discusses what it's like being on a team and in the heads of players who have won three Cups and are facing a decline. Very interesting.

https://imgur.com/a/YFfy9
- pdx2ord

Thanks for posting, what a great passage. I I will have to read Dryden’s book, he is an impressive writer.

Hopefully our guys can find a way to regain their focus, motivation, and confidence, as I think they are lacking in all three.

Thanks for posting, what a great passage. I I will have to read Dryden’s book, he is an impressive writer.

Hopefully our guys can find a way to regain their focus, motivation, and confidence, as I think they are lacking in all three.
- LaheysBRandy

The book is really, really good. Make sure you get it.

There is no rebuild to be had. How a rebuild works is in either two ways...1-suck for a long time, accumulate high end picks and hope they turn into something. or 2-trade valuable veteran assets to restock the system/team. The White Sox traded VERY valuable and elite players to essentially go from a middling farm system to the majors best system. Now...they wait. The Hawks have nothing like that. They have no real movable assets that would bring much.

...with the possible exception of Patrick Kane and Duncan Keith ... And despite his brilliance, the 10.5 mya cap hit of Kane limits the options there. But those are the only two that would get you 3-4 high quality assets. Keith would absolutely be a huge get for a team at the TDL that wanted to make a run. Crawford would be too, but I don't see the market for a goalie. Oh yea, toss in the No Trade Moves Stan gave all these guys and now you have even less leverage.

People talking about trading Toews and/or Seabrook as part of a rebuild are laughable. you think you will get a couple high end prospects and picks for either? If Toews wasn't making 10.5, then maybe, but his salary makes him unmovable at any reasonable price. Seabrook's situation is as bad or worse. Thing is I do NOT think Toews has been that awful. Even so no chance he moves...so it is what it is.

Anisimov won't get you much of anything. And after that there isn't much left to move. The minors have some ok prospects, but no one that really projects as an elite player.

The combination of a declining team, monster contracts for under-performers, a mediocre at best minor league system, all combined show that we may be heading toward some really lean years in Chicago.

There is no rebuild to be had. How a rebuild works is in either two ways...1-suck for a long time, accumulate high end picks and hope they turn into something. or 2-trade valuable veteran assets to restock the system/team. The White Sox traded VERY valuable and elite players to essentially go from a middling farm system to the majors best system. Now...they wait. The Hawks have nothing like that. They have no real movable assets that would bring much.

...with the possible exception of Patrick Kane and Duncan Keith ... And despite his brilliance, the 10.5 mya cap hit of Kane limits the options there. But those are the only two that would get you 3-4 high quality assets. Keith would absolutely be a huge get for a team at the TDL that wanted to make a run. Crawford would be too, but I don't see the market for a goalie. Oh yea, toss in the No Trade Moves Stan gave all these guys and now you have even less leverage.

People talking about trading Toews and/or Seabrook as part of a rebuild are laughable. you think you will get a couple high end prospects and picks for either? If Toews wasn't making 10.5, then maybe, but his salary makes him unmovable at any reasonable price. Seabrook's situation is as bad or worse. Thing is I do NOT think Toews has been that awful. Even so no chance he moves...so it is what it is.

Anisimov won't get you much of anything. And after that there isn't much left to move. The minors have some ok prospects, but no one that really projects as an elite player.

The combination of a declining team, monster contracts for under-performers, a mediocre at best minor league system, all combined show that we may be heading toward some really lean years in Chicago.
- kwolf68

Spot on. And all that = we are in serious schit. We need to move Q. It’s time. Team is unmotivated and unprepared. PP is, well it’s a joke. We can’t run and gun like years past. Fine. Play an Uber tight D scheme and counter punch. Tell guys you are gonna chip it and go get it. Tell guys you are gonna keep it simple. Clean look? Let it fly and attack the net. Adjust to your team Q. He isn’t. X/O with Q is failing. Team needs an influx of Rockford guys. I’d rather lose with young hungry kids busting their a$$, then millionaire Vet’s coasting around.

Completely different situations. Kopitar struggled more individually as his team remained very strong at puck possession while his own numbers took a dive compared to his team. Kopitar struggled to score goals, 12 in 76 games.

Toews remained one of the better possession players for the Hawks, but the team in general has gotten weaker. Toews got his offense going, but I think missed Hossa's contribution on the defensive side of the puck.
- breadbag

He also shot 8%. Some of these guys are going to have an off year. But aside from that, Kopitar has been a vastly superior player and more consistent and thats while dragging around the corpse of Dustin Brown and whatever other bozo was on his off side.

He didn't and doesn't need Saad and Hossa to do the lifting for him.