Trump is a moron, and I’m not condoning what’s going on right now, but this has been an inevitability since US and EU backed militants took over the government back in 2014.

Imagine if Russia and China backed a faction that took over control of Mexico, and allowed those nations to move military personnel and equipment into Mexico on the border with Texas.
- 1970vintage

Refreshing to see someone say the obvious on here instead of just repeating America's propaganda on Ukraine. 2014 was a color change backed by the States. From democratically elected Russian ally to anti Russian puppet.

If anyone has doubts that it was an American coup, please search and listen to the leaked Victoria Nuland(State Department) phone call where she clearly decides their new leader. Organizers and EU wanted Klitschko(a moderate) and she said "F*ck the EU"(actual quote) and she tells them the USA wants Arseniy Yatsenyuk who would go on to lay a heavy hand on Eastern Ukraine who rejected America's puppet. Why wouldn't they... the guy they voted for was just taken down in a illegal American coup. This led to the civil war that's been going on for pretty much 8 years now.

To make it worse, Azov Battalion which is a hardcore Neo Nazi political group formed a militia that has been doing most of the fighting on the Donbas contact line. Last numbers I saw had them 4000 strong. Only recently they were added to the Ukrainian gov forces.

We are supporting Nazis in this conflict. Their national hero is Stephan Bandera. They are ruthless and have been shelling the cities in Donbas since 2014. People can say both sides are guilty of this but the Gov side is not sieged in cities... they are out in the small villages and farmland.

America has been pushing for a European war with Russia since the Clinton administration. There has been 17 nations added to NATO since 97 and all moving eastward toward Russia. Every one of these is basically an American base. We saw how America responded to the Cuban Missile Crisis... well every NATO addition to Eastern Europe is a Missile Crisis to Russia. USA could have gave assurances to not recruit Ukraine before this started but refused. They showed their hand and their hand is adding Ukraine to NATO eventually. Does anyone really think Russia is going to let that happen? Like you say, imagine if Russia/China did this to America's neighbors like Mexico and Canada....

Instead, most believe this happened because Putin is evil and wants their resources... totally ignorant of America's 25 years of aggression towards Russia and Ukraine clearly was a red line.

America has sacrificed Ukraine. Plain and simple.

Refreshing to see someone say the obvious on here instead of just repeating America's propaganda on Ukraine. 2014 was a color change backed by the States. From democratically elected Russian ally to anti Russian puppet.
- boonerbuck

I was going to call you from the main thread because I knew you’d have the research to back it up

I have family in Crimea (wife’s), we’ve been following the conflict from both sides for a long time. I’m against the war as killing people for political gains is retarded but I understand why it’s happening, and the number of sudden Ukrainian supported on Twitter etc condemning Russia are laughable.

I’ve seen some good retorts though. Everyone wants a piece of Ovechkin, one person said US players should be made to answer for Texas - because it’s current, but all the other atrocities around the world should be open for discussion as well. Hell, Canada has a little genocide on their docket to answer for…

I was going to call you from the main thread because I knew you’d have the research to back it up

I have family in Crimea (wife’s), we’ve been following the conflict from both sides for a long time. I’m against the war as killing people for political gains is retarded but I understand why it’s happening, and the number of sudden Ukrainian supported on Twitter etc condemning Russia are laughable.

I’ve seen some good retorts though. Everyone wants a piece of Ovechkin, one person said US players should be made to answer for Texas - because it’s current, but all the other atrocities around the world should be open for discussion as well. Hell, Canada has a little genocide on their docket to answer for…
- 1970vintage

Eastern Europe and the “Cossacks” have been a poop show since time began much like the complexity of the Middle East.

I think most are concerned about the potential this war has to escalate into something bigger.

Eastern Europe and the “Cossacks” have been a poop show since time began much like the complexity of the Middle East.

I think most are concerned about the potential this war has to escalate into something bigger.
- bloatedmosquito

I agree. I suppose staying off social media is a key to sanity.

Eastern Europe and the “Cossacks” have been a poop show since time began much like the complexity of the Middle East.

I think most are concerned about the potential this war has to escalate into something bigger.
- bloatedmosquito

Yup.

Yup.
- Marwood

I'm in Berlin, my girlfriend is back in New York. We talked about if war broke out between Nato and Russia what we would do – I said Berlin and New York are top priorities to get nuked, so not sure there'd be too much to do at that point

I'm in Berlin, my girlfriend is back in New York. We talked about if war broke out between Nato and Russia what we would do – I said Berlin and New York are top priorities to get nuked, so not sure there'd be too much to do at that point


- NewYorkNuck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyzfHmPJqM4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyzfHmPJqM4
- Marwood

Great, now I have to go listen to that whole album.

Might be a good time to start watching 80’s Cold War movies. I suggest Matthew Broderick War Games to start. So bad, but oh so good.

Interesting article.

https://www.aljazeera.com...russia-invasion-criticism

Interesting article.

https://www.aljazeera.com...russia-invasion-criticism
- bloatedmosquito

I was discussing this quote in your link about civilians encouraged to make maltov cocktails and attack the invaders somewhere else today. It's bang on...

"If this was done by Palestinians, Afghanistan or other nations resisting occupation, it would be terrorism. And during Mandela's anti-apartheid era, it was also dubbed terrorism. For Europeans facing similar situations, it is resistance!. Western duplicity knows no bounds."

and

“If they were brown people in Yemen or Palestine doing the same they would be labeled terrorists deserving US-Israeli or US-Saudi drone bombing.”

Media the whole time labeling them terrorists.

Interesting article.

https://www.aljazeera.com...russia-invasion-criticism
- bloatedmosquito

Oh ya, good post by the way.

I was discussing this quote in your link about civilians encouraged to make maltov cocktails and attack the invaders somewhere else today. It's bang on...

"If this was done by Palestinians, Afghanistan or other nations resisting occupation, it would be terrorism. And during Mandela's anti-apartheid era, it was also dubbed terrorism. For Europeans facing similar situations, it is resistance!. Western duplicity knows no bounds."

and

“If they were brown people in Yemen or Palestine doing the same they would be labeled terrorists deserving US-Israeli or US-Saudi drone bombing.”

Media the whole time labeling them terrorists.
- boonerbuck

So one size fits all, regardless of circumstances, got it.

Germany now to spend 2% on military budget.....2%. The thing is that so many countries out there are capable of spending so much more on it than they currently do.

Putin's threat of the nuclear option is the most frightening aspect of the whole situation.

Germany now to spend 2% on military budget.....2%. The thing is that so many countries out there are capable of spending so much more on it than they currently do.

Putin's threat of the nuclear option is the most frightening aspect of the whole situation.
- golfingsince

Be nice if Canada upped their game on military spending and a bigger military force.

I was discussing this quote in your link about civilians encouraged to make maltov cocktails and attack the invaders somewhere else today. It's bang on...

"If this was done by Palestinians, Afghanistan or other nations resisting occupation, it would be terrorism. And during Mandela's anti-apartheid era, it was also dubbed terrorism. For Europeans facing similar situations, it is resistance!. Western duplicity knows no bounds."

and

“If they were brown people in Yemen or Palestine doing the same they would be labeled terrorists deserving US-Israeli or US-Saudi drone bombing.”

Media the whole time labeling them terrorists.
- boonerbuck

It's called propaganda and it isn't relegated to the west. In fact i'd say there are far more people living in worse conditions elsewhere which is the basis of revolt.

I was discussing this quote in your link about civilians encouraged to make maltov cocktails and attack the invaders somewhere else today. It's bang on...

"If this was done by Palestinians, Afghanistan or other nations resisting occupation, it would be terrorism. And during Mandela's anti-apartheid era, it was also dubbed terrorism. For Europeans facing similar situations, it is resistance!. Western duplicity knows no bounds."

and

“If they were brown people in Yemen or Palestine doing the same they would be labeled terrorists deserving US-Israeli or US-Saudi drone bombing.”

Media the whole time labeling them terrorists.
- boonerbuck

It's called propaganda and it isn't relegated to the west. In fact i'd say there are far more people living in worse conditions elsewhere which is the basis of revolt.

Be nice if Canada upped their game on military spending and a bigger military force.
- Reubenkincade

It's not a priority. IMO Canada should have a small elite combat unit which is properly oufitted but the reserve corps should be larger. Any able bodied and minded Canadian under 25 collecting from the government could do some type of service......at least once a week.

It's called propaganda and it isn't relegated to the west. In fact i'd say there are far more people living in worse conditions elsewhere which is the basis of revolt.
- golfingsince

USA constantly targeting these kinds of nations for uprisings and it has nothing to do with humanitarianism. In fact, they are in much worse situation once America gets their claws into them. Just look at Libya that had the highest living standard of all of Africa. Following NATO's regime change there, it became a ISIS hotbed with genocide and slavery following their "humanitarianism"....

USA constantly targeting these kinds of nations for uprisings and it has nothing to do with humanitarianism. In fact, they are in much worse situation once America gets their claws into them. Just look at Libya that had the highest living standard of all of Africa. Following NATO's regime change there, it became a ISIS hotbed with genocide and slavery following their "humanitarianism"....

- boonerbuck

Your opinion isn't fact. You can't use one piece to taint the whole lot.

Regardless, i'm not here to defend US foreign policy.



Putin has rolled in tanks, troops, his air force? On what grounds? Now he threatens nuclear war if there's too much opposition. Ukraine is a strategic country both in terms of position and resources....it's much of the best farmland in Europe and it's also a gateway to the rest of Europe from a military standpoint. It's a pretty aggressive move.

Your opinion isn't fact. You can't use one piece to taint the whole lot.

Regardless, i'm not here to defend US foreign policy.



Putin has rolled in tanks, troops, his air force? On what grounds? Now he threatens nuclear war if there's too much opposition. Ukraine is a strategic country both in terms of position and resources....it's much of the best farmland in Europe and it's also a gateway to the rest of Europe from a military standpoint. It's a pretty aggressive move.
- golfingsince

Yup, scary shit regardless of one's opinion of US foreign policy. Putin is batshit crazy and angry, not a good combo.

Yup, scary shit regardless of one's opinion of US foreign policy. Putin is batshit crazy and angry, not a good combo.
- Marwood

I suspect there's a really big read coming up.

Your opinion isn't fact. You can't use one piece to taint the whole lot.

Regardless, i'm not here to defend US foreign policy.



Putin has rolled in tanks, troops, his air force? On what grounds? Now he threatens nuclear war if there's too much opposition. Ukraine is a strategic country both in terms of position and resources....it's much of the best farmland in Europe and it's also a gateway to the rest of Europe from a military standpoint. It's a pretty aggressive move.
- golfingsince

This is a very good point to mention. Thank you. Of course America was considering this when they participated in overthrowing the elected government in Kiev and installing their puppet. Let's not forget that Ukraine is literally on Russia's doorstep but America is on the other side of the world.

People act like this was out of nowhere and unprovoked. I see no one recognize that thousands of civilians have been killed by Ukrainian's shelling of Donbass for 8 years. They just expect that a 3rd of the population in the east who supported the government overthrown would just fall into place and recognize the illegal government who is anti Russian. That's just ridiculous. Ukraine became a failed state the moment the government collapsed by foreign meddling.

This is a very good point to mention. Thanks you. Of course America was considering this when they participated in overthrowing the elected government in Kiev and installing their puppet. Let's not forget that Ukraine is literally on Russia's doorstep but America is on the other side of the world.

People act like this was out of nowhere and unprovoked. I see no one recognize that thousands of civilians have been killed by Ukrainian's shelling of Donbass for 8 years. They just expect that a 3rd of the population in the east who supported the government overthrown would just fall into place and recognize the illegal government who is anti Russian. That's just ridiculous. Ukraine became a failed state the moment the government collapsed by foreign meddling.
- boonerbuck

The government has been a failed state for much longer than the past 10 years, it's been a failed state since our grandparents were born. Let's not pretend it was spectacular under Russian control. I remember hosting the children of chernobyl in the 80's.

The government has been a failed state for much longer than the past 10 years, it's been a failed state since our grandparents were born. Let's not pretend it was spectacular under Russian control. I remember hosting the children of chernobyl in the 80's.
- golfingsince

One of my grandparents immigrated from Ukraine.

True. It has been a top 5 most corrupt country for a long time. Still is. The color change coup didn't resolve that.

Germany now to spend 2% on military budget.....2%. The thing is that so many countries out there are capable of spending so much more on it than they currently do.

Putin's threat of the nuclear option is the most frightening aspect of the whole situation.
- golfingsince

Wouldn't it be nice if countries didn't spend more on the military, and just sort of focused on living conditions for their country and the world? Ah, what a dream, I know. You may say I'm a dreamer...



Yes, the nuclear part is pretty scary. Especially as the EU ramps up their military support and sanctions, and Russia's economy will start to crumble (ruble down 30% today)... it's going to get worse before it gets better.