I’m Gen X, I hate boomers and millennials equally
- 1970vintage

Same. I'm leaning towards hating Boomers more.

I think many of them are comfortable in the sense that their parents still help them out quite a bit.

We pay our workers handsomely, yet many are off sick on nearly a weekly basis.
- golfingsince

It boils down to how you're raised at home for the most part. We had some young folks work for us part-time. A couple were lazy and unmotivated and a couple had exemplary work ethics. One kid came to work the morning that his family house burned to the ground.

my point was/is that this is the environment that is present, how do individuals live within this environment other than to grab their part of it and make what they can.

I don't not subscribe to this is my lot in life, I believe in being responsible for yourself. If you are happy with what you have, where you are, great, that is what it is all about, where you are at with yourself.

I agree that "western system" needs to be addressed, and in your country for some reason wealth and greed are applauded as a right and social programs as communism and socialism.

I'm not sure why you have to make the "older person" reference, seems as if life experience isn't respected, and regardless I've been on my own since 15 and have always believed it is on me not anyone else, I have never believed in mollycoddling regardless of age.
- Makita

Of course this is the environment that is present – but it doesn't mean it has to be accepted. More and more (younger) people don't like it, so to go back to the origin of this discussion, they're choosing alternative ways to deal with it – that is not going into the same rat race jobs. Not working, becoming entrepreneurs, starting their own OnlyFans.. whatever.

Well, I've left the US for some time, at least a year or two more, so thankfully not my country. One of the reasons I double clutch about going back.

The "old person" reference is because that's a common refrain from older people: the young don't want to work, they're weak, I had to deal with my poop and they have to deal with the same poop too... where that's not necessarily true. Things can be improved, changed, adapted. But it takes questioning. Life experience is respected, but it's not the end all be all. Especially in modern times when the rate of change/evolution happens so fast.

Look, overall, this is a very complex and nuanced issue that is clearly an international thing, not just a local thing. Distilling it down into why people don't want to do X, or if people had Y they'd work more/harder isn't going to wrap it all up into a nice little breakfast burrito.

If it's an international issue, wouldn't that make it larger than an individual's onus? Clearly the whole "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" isn't applicable if this is a trend around the world.

Are your daughter and son dealing with the same adversity as everyone else? (Honest question, I don't know your or their lives.) In that, I mean how were they raised economically, what opportunities were they afforded, etc etc. Like Vintsy posted below, they helped their 18 year old son get into the housing market – that's clearly not dealing with the same adversity as everyone else (not saying that's the same case with you).

No, my solution isn't to coddle people – why is that every older person's go to? "I had it tough, so everyone else should have it tough, and if they don't they just want to be coddled!" Clearly, as you stated, this is an international issue – so something is wrong with the entire (Western) system that needs to be addressed: the growing wealth gap, the imbalance of life/work, "grind" culture, etc.

To be fair my frame of reference is more the US, because I lived there the past 7 years and it dominates most of the conversation, but living in Europe the past year has been so... relaxing?
- NewYorkNuck

I'm not sure where you get this idea that there was all of this opportunity for many of us when we were young. Prime rate was 14% when I turned 18 and minimum was was likely right around $6. There were also no jobs.

I'm not sure where you get this idea that there was all of this opportunity for many of us when we were young. Prime rate was 14% when I turned 18 and minimum was was likely right around $6. There were also no jobs.
- golfingsince

It was around 21% when I was 18. I made $4 an hour as a busboy.

It was around 21% when I was 18. I made $4 an hour as a busboy.
- Marwood

Prices were lower but the cost of borrowing made it more daunting.

Same. I'm leaning towards hating Boomers more.
- Marwood

I'm a Boomer looking forward to living off my Millennial Daughter.

I'm not sure where you get this idea that there was all of this opportunity for many of us when we were young. Prime rate was 14% when I turned 18 and minimum was was likely right around $6. There were also no jobs.
- golfingsince

$6 an hour in BC was around 1993 (http://srv116.services.gc.../dimt-wid/sm-mw/rpt2.aspx) and the average house price in the GVRD was $337,100.. so it would take 56,183 minimum wage hours to buy a home.

Minumum wage is $15.65 in BC today, and the average house price in the GVRD is $1,230,200... so would take 78,607 minimum wage hours to buy.

Here's a good article (though it's from the CBC, read at your own peril) about the comparison: https://www.cbc.ca/news/c...te-90s-ballance-1.4553070

Laura Ballance, the owner of a PR company that represents some of the largest events and companies in Vancouver, tweeted: "For the record, it was the same in the early 90s. So I left, worked hard, bought where I could afford, sacrificed having nice cars & vacations & dinners out, fixed up & sold 13 houses & worked my way back."

Now, I'm a reporter that loves statistics, historical comparisons and talking real estate.

But I'm also a renter in my early 30s who has lived in converted garages and basement suites in the suburbs to make ends meet. And in my personal time, I'm surrounded by friends who continually wonder if they will ever own property in Vancouver.

So I responded, in a professional and personal capacity, with some numbers (and a dash of snark):

"For the record, the average price of a detached home in Greater Vancouver in Feb. 1993 was $337,100. Adjusted for inflation, that's $522,306.71 today. The average price of a detached home is now $1,732,992. Scrimping on "vacations & dinners out" won't make up that difference."

Prices were lower but the cost of borrowing made it more daunting.
- golfingsince

They also talk about that at the end of the article:

What about interest rates?

If there's one metric of the housing affordability debate that has gone down, it's interest rates — while they were over 10 per cent for virtually an entire generation of homeowners, they've been below five per cent for well over a decade now.

"Then the big question for first-time homebuyers would have been interest rates: would you qualify for a mortgage given debt service ratio? The down payment was still an issue, but it was more the servicing cost," said Helmut Pastrick, chief economist at B.C's Central 1 Credit Union.

But even accounting for inflation, the mortgage payments required by high interest rates aren't comparable to today's market.

Consider the example of former health minister Terry Lake.

He told CBC News that in 1991, he purchased a three-bedroom home with an unfinished basement in Port Coquitlam for $164,900, when interest rates were at 14.5 per cent.

"Kind of one of those Coquitlam box specials," he quipped. "That was certainly the flavour of the day back then."

If Lake put down 20 per cent on a downpayment and had a five-year fixed mortgage, his monthly payments would have been $1,596.13 — which when factoring for inflation is the equivalent of $2,563.33 today, according to the Bank of Canada.

Coincidentally, there's exactly one three-bedroom with an unfurnished basement being marketed as such on Real Estate Wire, which lists virtually all homes available for sale in B.C. It's on the market for $1,099,000.

With five-year-fixed rates from CIBC at 3.19 per cent, the monthly mortgage payment — assuming you can pay the 20 per cent down payment of $219,000 — is $4,246.96.

Adjusted for inflation, that's a 65 per cent increase from the mortgage payments someone like Lake would have paid in 1991. Assuming you can save up that bigger down payment.

"It's still much more expensive today," said Lake. "But considering interest rates does give a better comparator."

$6 an hour in BC was around 1993 (http://srv116.services.gc.../dimt-wid/sm-mw/rpt2.aspx) and the average house price in the GVRD was $337,100.. so it would take 56,183 minimum wage hours to buy a home.

Minumum wage is $15.65 in BC today, and the average house price in the GVRD is $1,230,200... so would take 78,607 minimum wage hours to buy.

Here's a good article (though it's from the CBC, read at your own peril) about the comparison: https://www.cbc.ca/news/c...te-90s-ballance-1.4553070
- NewYorkNuck

Well done. Massive change is needed. Hoping today’s generation can correct the mistakes of generations past.

Why do you think young people "don't want to work"? Is it out of lack of drive/commitment/being "tough"? Or are they tired of being underpaid and overworked in an economy stacked against them?

Honest question.
- NewYorkNuck

KFC in Osoyoos $22 to start, still have problems finding staff. Lots of restaurants and bars reducing hours in Penticton, Cannabis stores closing downtown, no staff. I can't speak as to why young people don't want to work. There's tons of jobs here, no takers.

KFC in Osoyoos $22 to start, still have problems finding staff. Lots of restaurants and bars reducing hours in Penticton, Cannabis stores closing downtown, no staff. I can't speak as to why young people don't want to work. There's tons of jobs here, no takers.
- VanHockeyGuy

They can't get people to work a shift at the piers in Halifax for $1000.00

They also talk about that at the end of the article:
- NewYorkNuck

You made a good case to show where the real estate market is presently, which by the way none of us controls.

What are your solutions for correcting this absurd situation? What are your solutions for fixing the labour market?

It is great to identify how the costs of living have increased 100 fold, but there isn't one political party in this country or the US, Europe that can force real estate lower, or fuel prices lower, or force anyone to take that $1000 shift.

They can't get people to work a shift at the piers in Halifax for $1000.00
- golfingsince

That is ridiculous.

https://thoughtleadership...ling-to-worrisome-levels/


Worst in 31 years, which incidentally is back when I was 18. Not once did I think the solution to my problems was to avoid working.

Of course that is national data, not an isolated GVRD market which over that time period became the most expensive in Canada.

You made a good case to show where the real estate market is presently, which by the way none of us controls.

What are your solutions for correcting this absurd situation? What are your solutions for fixing the labour market?

It is great to identify how the costs of living have increased 100 fold, but there isn't one political party in this country or the US, Europe that can force real estate lower, or fuel prices lower, or force anyone to take that $1000 shift.
- Makita

I don't pretend to have enough knowledge in economics, social history, and policy to begin to offer solutions to a large, complex, and far reaching problem. There are so many factors to it all over the world that have stretched for decades (rampant capitalism, education, tax cuts, racism [more in the US, redlining and whatnot], growing income gaps, despondency, etc.) that it's not going to be some simple solution.

Like you said, none of us control this, so even if I had all the answers, I couldn't do shit about fuck over this.

What I do think it's going to take, however, is a lot of small policies over time that will be the Swiss cheese method: nothing will be perfect, they'll all have their holes, but stacking them on top of each other will eliminate more and more of those holes. IMO, a lot of this goes wage inequality – I can't find where I watched/read it but there was a study that basically boiled down there were a lot fewer problems for people/society when everyone was doing better financially/the difference in CEO and low-end wages were much closer.

Anyways, this whole thing started on the notion that young people "don't want to work", which I think is a simplistic take that reeks of Juvenoia

I don't pretend to have enough knowledge in economics, social history, and policy to begin to offer solutions to a large, complex, and far reaching problem. There are so many factors to it all over the world that have stretched for decades (rampant capitalism, education, tax cuts, racism
- NewYorkNuck[more in the US, redlining and whatnot], growing income gaps, despondency, etc.) that it's not going to be some simple solution.

Like you said, none of us control this, so even if I had all the answers, I couldn't do shit about fuck over this.

What I do think it's going to take, however, is a lot of small policies over time that will be the Swiss cheese method: nothing will be perfect, they'll all have their holes, but stacking them on top of each other will eliminate more and more of those holes. IMO, a lot of this goes wage inequality – I can't find where I watched/read it but there was a study that basically boiled down there were a lot fewer problems for people/society when everyone was doing better financially/the difference in CEO and low-end wages were much closer.

Anyways, this whole thing started on the notion that young people "don't want to work", which I think is a simplistic take that reeks of Juvenoia ;)

I said many young people don't want to work, and I stand by it. It's an observation I've made as local chairperson in our union.

I said many young people don't want to work, and I stand by it. It's an observation I've made as local chairperson in our union.
- golfingsince

So a personal observation from one certain small part of a country is enough?

I'd urge you to read this – though it's a little long – it might help frame the mindset of "many young people" when it comes to work: https://www.vox.com/the-h...gen-z-antiwork-capitalism

Clearly this isn't all young people, but there's a huge change in mindset that has happened towards work since you were young (before the internet blew up).

I said many young people don't want to work, and I stand by it. It's an observation I've made as local chairperson in our union.
- golfingsince

It's nothing new, we've known this for a long time. The results are just clearer now with Boomers retiring. You haven't seen anything yet, it will get much worse.

I don't pretend to have enough knowledge in economics, social history, and policy to begin to offer solutions to a large, complex, and far reaching problem. There are so many factors to it all over the world that have stretched for decades (rampant capitalism, education, tax cuts, racism
- NewYorkNuck[more in the US, redlining and whatnot], growing income gaps, despondency, etc.) that it's not going to be some simple solution.

Like you said, none of us control this, so even if I had all the answers, I couldn't do shit about fuck over this.

What I do think it's going to take, however, is a lot of small policies over time that will be the Swiss cheese method: nothing will be perfect, they'll all have their holes, but stacking them on top of each other will eliminate more and more of those holes. IMO, a lot of this goes wage inequality – I can't find where I watched/read it but there was a study that basically boiled down there were a lot fewer problems for people/society when everyone was doing better financially/the difference in CEO and low-end wages were much closer.

Anyways, this whole thing started on the notion that young people "don't want to work", which I think is a simplistic take that reeks of Juvenoia

My wife & I were talking about this last night. Scandanavian countries seem to have more social & economic equality. It comes at the cost of high taxes but for example, post secondary education is covered.

So a personal observation from one certain small part of a country is enough?

I'd urge you to read this – though it's a little long – it might help frame the mindset of "many young people" when it comes to work: https://www.vox.com/the-h...gen-z-antiwork-capitalism

Clearly this isn't all young people, but there's a huge change in mindset that has happened towards work since you were young (before the internet blew up).
- NewYorkNuck

I was just at a national convention and the same sentiment was observed throughout the country. It's not like it's opinion, we can clearly see all of the absences from work and in most cases have to go step in and protect them because the company is seeking discipline through their attendance management program.

Out of 11 investigations I've had in the past 2 weeks, 10 have been 30 years old or younger. The majority of the work force is 35 or older.

The largest problem we face is that the Bay/Wall streets of the world control the economy instead of the main streets of the world. The rich get richer.

Jesus, some of you sound like your parents.

“What’s wrong with today’s generation?”

“When I was their age I worked 10 jobs and was happy to do it.”

bla bla bla lol.

I was just at a national convention and the same sentiment was observed throughout the country. It's not like it's opinion, we can clearly see all of the absences from work and in most cases have to go step in and protect them because the company is seeking discipline through their attendance management program.

Out of 11 investigations I've had in the past 2 weeks, 10 have been 30 years old or younger. The majority of the work force is 35 or older.
- golfingsince

Did you read the article?