This article is a couple of years old but it's an interesting read.

https://www.theglobeandma...cal-mess/article36680619/
- golfingsince

There was a lot of math in that.

There was a lot of math in that.
- Marwood

He's a UofC economist.

I mean Albertans pay taxes at a rate similar to much of the US. Kenney's plan to fix things is to cut corporate tax rates to 8%, the lowest in NA. He's also cut some key program funding and has downloaded more costs onto the municipalities. His budget projections are about $4B better than the NDP over the next four years, and they're banking on a return of oil to balance the budget.

He's a UofC economist.

I mean Albertans pay taxes at a rate similar to much of the US. Kenney's plan to fix things is to cut corporate tax rates to 8%, the lowest in NA. He's also cut some key program funding and has downloaded more costs onto the municipalities. His budget projections are about $4B better than the NDP over the next four years, and they're banking on a return of oil to balance the budget.
- golfingsince

And he’s got a Trudeau shaped shield.

And he’s got a Trudeau shaped shield.
- CubanBuffet

Yes, if AB doesn't pull out it will be all Trudeau's fault.

Team Pom-Pom is having fun swapping Bennings cum while celebrating a victorious October. Watch a bunch of pillow-biting snowflakes.

The gatekeepers never stand down.

Team Pom-Pom is having fun swapping Bennings cum while celebrating a victorious October. Watch a bunch of pillow-biting snowflakes.

The gatekeepers never stand down.
- Marwood

Wait until they're limbless

Wait until they're limbless


- A_SteamingLombardi

The guys who are right about everything and hump Bennings leg are fans, the guys who criticize management are armchair GM's.

He's a UofC economist.

I mean Albertans pay taxes at a rate similar to much of the US. Kenney's plan to fix things is to cut corporate tax rates to 8%, the lowest in NA. He's also cut some key program funding and has downloaded more costs onto the municipalities. His budget projections are about $4B better than the NDP over the next four years, and they're banking on a return of oil to balance the budget.
- golfingsince

That’s the dumb part. Seen it before in the maritimes. Crossing fingers that their natural resources (coal and fishing) bounce back. Problem is you can’t count on commodity and resource prices to sustain an economy alone. You end up propping up an industry that never bounces back.

Alberta has to start weening themselves off oil revenue now.

That’s the dumb part. Seen it before in the maritimes. Crossing fingers that their natural resources (coal and fishing) bounce back. Problem is you can’t count on commodity and resource prices to sustain an economy alone. You end up propping up an industry that never bounces back.

Alberta has to start weening themselves off oil revenue now.
- bloatedmosquito

If they simply imposed a provincial sales tax they wouldn’t have a deficit. I think BC’s PST brought in around 7 billion in revenue last year.

That’s the dumb part. Seen it before in the maritimes. Crossing fingers that their natural resources (coal and fishing) bounce back. Problem is you can’t count on commodity and resource prices to sustain an economy alone. You end up propping up an industry that never bounces back.

Alberta has to start weening themselves off oil revenue now.
- bloatedmosquito

Why? Without the tax revenues from the oil and gas industry, as well as the spinoff industries, from B.C. Alberta and Saskatchewan the rest of the country would suffer.

For quite some time, Alberta has disproportionately paid more into federal treasuries than almost any other part of the country. You can’t just shut that off.

Albertans send on average 50 billion worth of taxes to Ottawa, but only received 27 billion back in the form of federal spending. This equates to a “gap” of 23 billion. On average, it means that every Albertan pays $5,000 more into Confederation than they get back. It’s the largest single “gap” of any province.

Furthermore, if you have a good product, why wouldn’t you continue to sell it and even expand those sales to far reaching customers?

Albertans have income higher tax bills. It also means that they’re generally less dependent on federal government programs, less social assistance and fewer GST credits, among others.

“According to the Alberta government, only 55.7 per cent of its residents received income from government transfers, compared to 68.9 per cent everywhere else in Canada.

It also helps that Alberta has a long tradition of shipping its old people to Victoria, Kelowna or the Lower Mainland. When a retired Leduc oilman receives a pension cheque at his West Vancouver beach house, it’s registered as a federal transfer to B.C., rather than Alberta.

By last count, Alberta had a median age of 36, making it the youngest province in Canada. This not only means fewer pensions, but less need for healthcare spending.

There’s the simple fact that, aside from two large national parks and a pretty big air base, there’s not a lot of federal spending in Alberta. No navy bases. No federal headquarters for the RCMP or Indigenous Affairs. No massive Canada Revenue Agency call centers.

Add it all up — rich populace, lower entitlement burden, light federal spending, and you’ve got a province that consistently punches above its weight when it comes to paying the country’s bills.”

And just so you know, the resource rich provinces, BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan and Newfoundland, taxation accounts for large portions of provincial revenue streams for the “have not” provinces.

**Yes I know transfer payments comes from general revenue collected by the Federal government of Canada**

PEI 20%
New Brunswick 19%
Nova Scotia 16%
Manitoba 12%
Quebec 10%

That’s a huge portion of their provincial budgets, huge!! Roughly 11 million people, almost a third of our population, would be greatly affected. You can’t just shutoff the resources in western Canada, not just Alberta, and think our country would sail along like nothing happened.

It’s also worth mentioning, although BC’s direct natural resource revenues only accounts for roughly 1% of its total revenue streams ($2.9 billion in 2018-19), a comparatively small contributor. However, it should be noted that many other revenue streams – e.g., personal income tax, business income tax, property tax, and fuel and carbon taxes – are also bolstered by the activities of B.C.’s natural resource industries. Which brings that percentage much much higher.

I had to look this up for BC.

“At a high level, the province’s revenues can be divided into two buckets. The first consists of “taxation revenues” that come from various taxes paid by individuals and businesses. The second is “non-taxation revenues.” These are made up of cash transfers to B.C. from the federal government, the net earnings of provincial Crown Corporations, natural resource royalties, and wide array of fees and levies.”

“Personal income tax is the biggest source of cash, supplying some 18% of the government’s revenue in the current fiscal year. Next is transfers from the federal government (16.5%), followed by sales tax (almost 14%), corporate income tax (7.6%), and “other fees and licenses” (7.4%). The latter category is a grab-bag that includes fees charged for health care services, post-secondary education, and the use and ownership of motor vehicles. Added together, the top five revenue sources provide 63% of the funds collected by the B.C. government.”

Since the West Coast of BC voted pretty much orange with a bit of green and red, can we separate ?
😁

I had to look this up for BC.

“At a high level, the province’s revenues can be divided into two buckets. The first consists of “taxation revenues” that come from various taxes paid by individuals and businesses. The second is “non-taxation revenues.” These are made up of cash transfers to B.C. from the federal government, the net earnings of provincial Crown Corporations, natural resource royalties, and wide array of fees and levies.”

“Personal income tax is the biggest source of cash, supplying some 18% of the government’s revenue in the current fiscal year. Next is transfers from the federal government (16.5%), followed by sales tax (almost 14%), corporate income tax (7.6%), and “other fees and licenses” (7.4%). The latter category is a grab-bag that includes fees charged for health care services, post-secondary education, and the use and ownership of motor vehicles. Added together, the top five revenue sources provide 63% of the funds collected by the B.C. government.”
- Pacificgem

STFU Lefty you are morbidly obese.

Why? Without the tax revenues from the oil and gas industry, as well as the spinoff industries, from B.C. Alberta and Saskatchewan the rest of the country would suffer.

For quite some time, Alberta has disproportionately paid more into federal treasuries than almost any other part of the country. You can’t just shut that off.

Albertans send on average 50 billion worth of taxes to Ottawa, but only received 27 billion back in the form of federal spending. This equates to a “gap” of 23 billion. On average, it means that every Albertan pays $5,000 more into Confederation than they get back. It’s the largest single “gap” of any province.
- Pacificgem

lefty, your entire argument here boils down to: 1) alberta's economy being oil dependent is okay because it's historically and at present been the cause of alberta's and through trickle down a cause of canada's wealth; and 2) alberta's economic shortfalls during a downturn in the oil sector can be made up by implementing a consumption tax.

both of those points are fair and reasoned.

however, when bloats talks about "weaning" off oil, i don't think he means it in instantaneously. i wouldn't want to put words in his mouth (but i will) and say that he's talking the long game i.e. decades.

in the interim, you can certainly implement a consumption tax just like every other province.

however, if they don't diversify, they'll turn into a maritime province in the next 50ish years as the world moves off of oil. i understand that you (lefty) are in the oil sector and you don't want to believe that the world will move on from oil but that's what will happen as new technologies emerge (i'm talking decades not years.)

nobody is arguing that oil will be irrelevant in the next couple of decades... however, if you don't plan for a shift away from the stuff, you're burying your head in the.... sand.


btw.... the rest of your posts were largely irrelevant (and this comes from a guy who has no problem writing novels to support my points.)

Since the West Coast of BC voted pretty much orange with a bit of green and red, can we separate ?
😁
- Reubenkincade

I think we need a breakdown from Pacific Gem to see if the province can financial support itself without the mighty province of Alberta subsidizing our debt load.

And the way the sentiment is leaning, the entire province will be a park with no resource industry, or deep sea shipping industry, or forest industry. Most residents will be reliant of government handouts and of course free housing and daycare, so my guess is no separation.

STFU Lefty you are morbidly obese.
- Marwood

I’m not, I’m fit healthy and often get mistaken for someone much younger

lefty, your entire argument here boils down to: 1) alberta's economy being oil dependent is okay because it's historically and at present been the cause of alberta's and through trickle down a cause of canada's wealth; and 2) alberta's economic shortfalls during a downturn in the oil sector can be made up by implementing a consumption tax.

both of those points are fair and reasoned.

however, when bloats talks about "weaning" off oil, i don't think he means it in instantaneously. i wouldn't want to put words in his mouth (but i will) and say that he's talking the long game i.e. decades.

in the interim, you can certainly implement a consumption tax just like every other province.

however, if they don't diversify, they'll turn into a maritime province in the next 50ish years as the world moves off of oil. i understand that you (lefty) are in the oil sector and you don't want to believe that the world will move on from oil but that's what will happen as new technologies emerge (i'm talking decades not years.)

nobody is arguing that oil will be irrelevant in the next couple of decades... however, if you don't plan for a shift away from the stuff, you're burying your head in the.... sand.


btw.... the rest of your posts were largely irrelevant (and this comes from a guy who has no problem writing novels to support my points.)
- RealityChecker

Well, first of all, just because I’m in the oil industry doesn’t mean I blindly support it. And I’ll go on record as saying there’s zero chance the world weans itself off oil in 50 years. Consumption is actually increasing.

As with every other province, Alberta’s major revenue source is taxation, ie: people working. If that happens to be the oil industry and all it’s spinoff industries, then so be it.

They don’t have to be as reliant on the oil and gas if they managed the province’s finances better.

They’re the lowest taxed people in the country, and, they don’t have a provincial sale tax like everyone else...why?

What makes you think think they aren’t trying to diversify and get greener as an industry? They are. Those initiatives are driven by the corporations themselves. Not the government. Although there are tax incentives for this.

I spent two years working on a solar project using curved mirrors to harness the sun’s energy and heat steam before it’s injected into the ground instead of burning natural gas which produces carbon emissions.

As an example. Now I don’t think that would work on a large scale in Canada but it certainly would on smaller project.

ConocoPhillips has a zero effluent license from the government. They 100% reuse all the water they make steam with for injection on SAGD projects. That started in 2015.

We produce some of the most environmentally friendly oil and gas in the world because our restrictions in Canada.

Well, first of all, just because I’m in the oil industry doesn’t mean I blindly support it.

As with every other province, Alberta’s major revenue source is taxation, ie: people working. If that happens to be the oil industry and all it’s spinoff industries, then so be it.

They don’t have to be as reliant on the oil and gas if they managed the province’s finances better.

They’re the lowest taxed people in the country, and, they don’t have a provincial sale everyone else...why?

What makes you think think they aren’t trying to diversify and get greener as an industry? They are. Those initiatives are driven by the corporations themselves. Not the government. Although there are tax incentives for this.

I spent two years working on a solar project using curved mirrors to harness the sun’s energy and heat steam before it’s injected into the ground instead of burning natural gas which produces carbon emissions.

As an example. Now I don’t think that would work on a large scale in Canada but it certainly would on smaller project.

ConocoPhillips has a zero effluent license from the government. They 100% reuse all the water they make steam with for injection on SAGD projects. That started in 2015.

We produce some of the most environmentally friendly oil and gas in the world because our restrictions in Canada.
- Pacificgem

so once again, to simplify: you agree with bloats but you want to implement a consumption tax.

so once again, to simplify: you agree with bloats but you want to implement a consumption tax.
- RealityChecker

Well, I always think there’s a better way to do something, however big or small that may be.

So no, I don’t believe Alberta should stop producing oil, as I said above, the worlds consumption is actually increasing. Why not supply the demand and prosper as a country because of it?

The oil & gas industry floats Canada’s boat, we need it.

Well, I always think there’s a better way to do something, however big or small that may be.

So no, I don’t believe Alberta should stop producing oil, as I said above, the worlds consumption is actually increasing. Why not supply the demand and prosper as a country because of it?
- Pacificgem

and this was argued by whom and when?

weaning off in this instance was used as a synonym for diversifying. you mentioned that the industry/province is or may already be doing that. does that mean that they plan to stop producing oil?

so where is the stop producing oil argument coming from in this thread?

and this was argued by whom and when?

weaning off in this instance was used as a synonym for diversifying. you mentioned that the industry/province is or may already be doing that. does that mean that they plan to stop producing oil?

so where is the stop producing oil argument coming from in this thread?
- RealityChecker

Bloated said “weaning itself off oil revenue”, to me that means you stop the industry, eventually.

It’ll never stop in our lifetime or your children’s lifetime. That’s my belief. The world just craves it too much.

Yes they are diversifying and making greener choices but how does one wean itself of the revenue created by the industry? That’s not feasible. What’s everyone in Alberta going to do if they don’t work in its main industry or spinoff businesses?

Oh, and I believe the debate I responded to was Bloated speaking to their economy, which is based on resources.

They could better withstand fluctuating commodity prices if they simply instilled a sales tax.

But again most of Alberta’s revenue comes from the tax workers and corporations pay.

Bloated said “weaning itself off oil revenue”, to me that means you stop the industry, eventually.

It’ll never stop in our lifetime or your children’s lifetime.

Yes they are diversifying and making greener choices but how does one wean itself of the revenue created by the industry? That’s not feasible. What’s everyone in Alberta going to do if they don’t work in its main industry or spinoff businesses?
- Pacificgem

and like i mentioned earlier, we're talking decades and you seem to be making this about the present.

had our provincial/federal governments been smarter decades ago, we would have a much bigger and better infrastructure for refinement. that would have been great long term investment... but the time and opportunity do that has passed.

that's the long term vision that will be needed to move away from oil. long term vision with a coordinated follow through.

i disagree if you think that this type of planning is happening. it's a decades or generational move.

you arguing about "what will people do if there is no oil economy?" is just a talking point to avoid the discussion. no one is talking about dismantling the entire industry in the next couple of decades but it's great politics to scare people into thinking that so they vote for you.