How stupid would TB look if they traded Hedman when he struggled for the better part of 3 years. People often forget that defenseman generally take longer to develop then forwards. Is Dahlin struggling yes. Is it frustrating yes. When we trade him and he eventually becomes what was projected will that be frustrating especially selling him at what would be an all time low without a (frank)ing doubt. That’s all I got
- SDSabre

I'm really curious as to where this "Hedman struggled for his first few years" rhetoric came from? His first four years he wasn't putting up the numbers, but he was still solid defensively, threw his body around and looked like he belonged in the NHL. Imagine if Ristolainen hadn't already hit his ceiling by his 4th season, and that's Hedman. He finally pulled it all together and had a breakout year his 5th season and never looked back. Ristolainen has an incredibly low-ceiling but an equally high floor.

Dahlin looks completely lost out there. He looks hesitant, timid, indecisive, lackadaisical and out of position 75% of the time. He falls down constantly and gets bullied in the corners and along the wall, despite bulking up this past summer. He turns it over constantly and lacks finesse. He rarely blocks shots and screens his goalie a lot.

Hedman always threw his body around, knew when to shoot and when to pass and had on-ice awareness. He also dealt with injuries his 2nd, 3rd and 4th seasons, partly because of his physical style. He's always blocked shots like a madman.

I don't know. I always saw something in Hedman and I have no idea where this whole idea that he struggled badly his first few years came from. Teams simply didn't score when he was on the ice, from the very beginning.

Dahlin has been bad.

And I never said he was better than Hughes, Makar, currently.

I said I wouldn’t doubt that some GM’s would still take Dahlin if given the choice. They’re all super young
- sbroads24

I really think dahlin’s issues are coach related. They need a new coach.

How stupid would TB look if they traded Hedman when he struggled for the better part of 3 years. People often forget that defenseman generally take longer to develop then forwards. Is Dahlin struggling yes. Is it frustrating yes. When we trade him and he eventually becomes what was projected will that be frustrating especially selling him at what would be an all time low without a (frank)ing doubt. That’s all I got
- SDSabre

That's fair, but never really said anything about trading him. But then again are we waiting another 2 or 3yrs, cause by that time Eichel Rhino Hall could be gone.

Love this song. A supergroup, if you will
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgCRdAzizxY
- Ratsreign

yep. good call

Love this song. A supergroup, if you will
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgCRdAzizxY
- Ratsreign

I really dig the new Chris Stapleton. Not sure if you guys consider that mainstream country. I’m not a country fan at all, he’s just good.

I really dig the new Chris Stapleton. Not sure if you guys consider that mainstream country. I’m not a country fan at all, he’s just good.
- Chris16

Stapleton is good. I really like Eric church as well but he hasn’t put anything out in a while

Love this song. A supergroup, if you will
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgCRdAzizxY
- Ratsreign

If you don't like that song then you deserve to be taken out back and shot.

Dahlin has been bad.

And I never said he was better than Hughes, Makar, currently.

I said I wouldn’t doubt that some GM’s would still take Dahlin if given the choice. They’re all super young
- sbroads24

You know how it is around here:

2nd round picks are kinda like 1st round picks. Goals count sometimes. Other times they do not count.

Laine, makar and Hughes are arguably top 25 nhler's.

The 2 guys we both like dahlin and skinner need to be better than the 135 - 165 nhl range if we are ever going to win.

I'm really curious as to where this "Hedman struggled for his first few years" rhetoric came from? His first four years he wasn't putting up the numbers, but he was still solid defensively, threw his body around and looked like he belonged in the NHL. Imagine if Ristolainen hadn't already hit his ceiling by his 4th season, and that's Hedman. He finally pulled it all together and had a breakout year his 5th season and never looked back. Ristolainen has an incredibly low-ceiling but an equally high floor.

Dahlin looks completely lost out there. He looks hesitant, timid, indecisive, lackadaisical and out of position 75% of the time. He falls down constantly and gets bullied in the corners and along the wall, despite bulking up this past summer. He turns it over constantly and lacks finesse. He rarely blocks shots and screens his goalie a lot.

Hedman always threw his body around, knew when to shoot and when to pass and had on-ice awareness. He also dealt with injuries his 2nd, 3rd and 4th seasons, partly because of his physical style. He's always blocked shots like a madman.

I don't know. I always saw something in Hedman and I have no idea where this whole idea that he struggled badly his first few years came from. Teams simply didn't score when he was on the ice, from the very beginning.
- 3rd GM's the charm

And Dahlin had the offensive side down in ways Hedman didn’t. Hedman was nonexistent offensively early on. That’s where the notion comes from. If Dahlin is a finished product at 20 I’ll eat a shoe. Not saying your saying that, but he’s had dominant stretches and struggling ones. More offensively leaning, and the d zone has been more of a struggle. Not that they are exactly the same, but Hedman did struggle with being the dominant two way dman he is now

Stapleton is good. I really like Eric church as well but he hasn’t put anything out in a while
- IndianaSabresFan

Give me an Eric church starter set. Best song, best album?

I'm really curious as to where this "Hedman struggled for his first few years" rhetoric came from? His first four years he wasn't putting up the numbers, but he was still solid defensively, threw his body around and looked like he belonged in the NHL. Imagine if Ristolainen hadn't already hit his ceiling by his 4th season, and that's Hedman. He finally pulled it all together and had a breakout year his 5th season and never looked back. Ristolainen has an incredibly low-ceiling but an equally high floor.

Dahlin looks completely lost out there. He looks hesitant, timid, indecisive, lackadaisical and out of position 75% of the time. He falls down constantly and gets bullied in the corners and along the wall, despite bulking up this past summer. He turns it over constantly and lacks finesse. He rarely blocks shots and screens his goalie a lot.

Hedman always threw his body around, knew when to shoot and when to pass and had on-ice awareness. He also dealt with injuries his 2nd, 3rd and 4th seasons, partly because of his physical style. He's always blocked shots like a madman.

I don't know. I always saw something in Hedman and I have no idea where this whole idea that he struggled badly his first few years came from. Teams simply didn't score when he was on the ice, from the very beginning.
- 3rd GM's the charm

Good post GM3

You know how it is around here:

2nd round picks are kinda like 1st round picks. Goals count sometimes. Other times they do not count.

Laine, makar and Hughes are arguably top 25 nhler's.

The 2 guys we both like dahlin and skinner need to be better than the 135 - 165 nhl range if we are ever going to win.
- Boss34

Dahlin absolutely

Skinner is excellent. He’s driving two 4th liners to 2nd line results

I really think dahlin’s issues are coach related. They need a new coach.
- IndianaSabresFan

Yeah. I am not a Krueger fan. But I also think the team is generally
Playing well

And Dahlin had the offensive side down in ways Hedman didn’t. Hedman was nonexistent offensively early on. That’s where the notion comes from. If Dahlin is a finished product at 20 I’ll eat a shoe. Not saying your saying that, but he’s had dominant stretches and struggling ones. More offensively leaning, and the d zone has been more of a struggle. Not that they are exactly the same, but Hedman did struggle with being the dominant two way dman he is now
- SDSabre

Also of note, Hedman started in the NHL at 19 vs Dahlins 18. In his first four years, Hedman averaged 4 goals and 22ish pts (not full 82 games, but you can all look them up if you want) until he was 23, which then jumped to double digit goals and 40+ assists regularly. I would easily say there was a sizeable jump in offensive production from him at age 23

I really think dahlin’s issues are coach related. They need a new coach.
- IndianaSabresFan

This much we can all agree on. He had 177 shots, 38 takeaways, and 97 hits his rookie season. 4 game-winners and 21:09 ATOI under Housley.

Then Krueger came in and immediately said he was going to hold him back offensively and limit his ice time. He actually said that. He went down to 19:18 ATOI. Only had 16 takeaways. He had significantly less giveaways but there's an old saying in the NHL that your best players and defensemen should be leading your team in giveaways because it means they have the puck on their stick to begin with.

Yes, he was injured and the season got cut short. Be we all know Ralph put a leash on him and he regressed. He looks even worse this year. I don't care if it's been 5 games, I'm done with the excuses.

He very well might be Tyler Myers all over again.

Dahlin absolutely

Skinner is excellent. He’s driving two 4th liners to 2nd line results
- sbroads24

I really like skinner doing exactly what he's be doing all season, minus game 1.

Making offense happen with scrubs. His 9 million is bringing (2) 1 million guys look offensive.

Skinner's engaged he could easily have 4 goals right now.

Dahlin is not just bad, but worse.

Worse than last year
Way worse than 3rd year expectations

Give me an Eric church starter set. Best song, best album?
- Chris16

He is a country rock guy. Carolina is a good album. They are all good if you ask me. He is basically the same age as me and his music has matured with me. From partying in the 20s to family and kids now. So that might mean more to me than some others.

And Dahlin had the offensive side down in ways Hedman didn’t. Hedman was nonexistent offensively early on. That’s where the notion comes from. If Dahlin is a finished product at 20 I’ll eat a shoe. Not saying your saying that, but he’s had dominant stretches and struggling ones. More offensively leaning, and the d zone has been more of a struggle. Not that they are exactly the same, but Hedman did struggle with being the dominant two way dman he is now
- SDSabre

Hedman did one important thing right from the start: Played good defense. He's a defenseman. That's what he was supposed to do. He had the skill and size to be a good offensive defenseman and he was a raw talent but he was very solid defensively right from the start. Teams didn't score when he was on the ice.

Dahlin has been anything but dominant, at any point. He is a power-play scorer. Half his points have been scored on the PP.

Hedman has always been a 5v5 scorer. He's an absolute beast 5v5. He always was. He's flat out dominant at even-strength.

This much we can all agree on. He had 177 shots, 38 takeaways, and 97 hits his rookie season. 4 game-winners and 21:09 ATOI under Housley.

Then Krueger came in and immediately said he was going to hold him back offensively and limit his ice time. He actually said that. He went down to 19:18 ATOI. Only had 16 takeaways. He had significantly less giveaways but there's an old saying in the NHL that your best players and defensemen should be leading your team in giveaways because it means they have the puck on their stick to begin with.

Yes, he was injured and the season got cut short. Be we all know Ralph put a leash on him and he regressed. He looks even worse this year. I don't care if it's been 5 games, I'm done with the excuses.

He very well might be Tyler Myers all over again.
- 3rd GM's the charm

🛎
Good stuff

This much we can all agree on. He had 177 shots, 38 takeaways, and 97 hits his rookie season. 4 game-winners and 21:09 ATOI under Housley.

Then Krueger came in and immediately said he was going to hold him back offensively and limit his ice time. He actually said that. He went down to 19:18 ATOI. Only had 16 takeaways. He had significantly less giveaways but there's an old saying in the NHL that your best players and defensemen should be leading your team in giveaways because it means they have the puck on their stick to begin with.

Yes, he was injured and the season got cut short. Be we all know Ralph put a leash on him and he regressed. He looks even worse this year. I don't care if it's been 5 games, I'm done with the excuses.

He very well might be Tyler Myers all over again.
- 3rd GM's the charm

Except Myers wasn’t supposed to be a generational can’t miss talent

And Dahlin had the offensive side down in ways Hedman didn’t. Hedman was nonexistent offensively early on. That’s where the notion comes from. If Dahlin is a finished product at 20 I’ll eat a shoe. Not saying your saying that, but he’s had dominant stretches and struggling ones. More offensively leaning, and the d zone has been more of a struggle. Not that they are exactly the same, but Hedman did struggle with being the dominant two way dman he is now
- SDSabre

You are so completely wrong.

A defenseman is supposed to be good at defense, first and foremost. Dahlin is terrible defensively. Hedman has always been good. He also didn't get the power-play time that Dahlin did his first few years. He also is a 5v5 scorer. Hedman didn't struggle. It's complete non-sense to suggest he did.

Hedman did one important thing right from the start: Played good defense. He's a defenseman. That's what he was supposed to do. He had the skill and size to be a goof offensive defenseman and he was a raw talent but he was very solid defensively right from the start. Teams didn't score when he was on the ice.

Dahlin has been anything but dominant, at any point. He is a power-play scorer. Half his points have been scored on the PP.

Hedman has always been a 5v5 scorer. He's an absolute beast 5v5. He always was. He's flat out dominant at even-strength.
- 3rd GM's the charm

I hate to keep bringing up size and players, but hedman was/ is a 6 '6.5 guy. That size and reach help.

Hedman came into the league with that advantage, like Tyler Myers.

You are so completely wrong.

A defenseman is supposed to be good at defense, first and foremost. Dahlin is terrible defensively. Hedman has always been good. He also didn't get the power-play time that Dahlin did his first few years. He also is a 5v5 scorer. Hedman didn't struggle. It's complete non-sense to suggest he did.
- 3rd GM's the charm

Erik Karlsson never played defence

Except Myers wasn’t supposed to be a generational can’t miss talent
- IndianaSabresFan

True, but he was still a 12th overall pick and pretty highly regarded as a skilled player. The common idea is he never quite reached his potential after an impressive rookie year.

That's where my comparison comes from.

Hedman did one important thing right from the start: Played good defense. He's a defenseman. That's what he was supposed to do. He had the skill and size to be a good offensive defenseman and he was a raw talent but he was very solid defensively right from the start. Teams didn't score when he was on the ice.

Dahlin has been anything but dominant, at any point. He is a power-play scorer. Half his points have been scored on the PP.

Hedman has always been a 5v5 scorer. He's an absolute beast 5v5. He always was. He's flat out dominant at even-strength.
- 3rd GM's the charm

His first two years weren’t nearly as dominant as your saying. Decent possession metrics but not outstanding and 50/50 zone starts metrics, still a negative player (I know TB wasn’t very good) Year 3 he clamped down defensively and has the stats to back it up then. I’m also frustrated with Dahlin and not excusing his play by any means. He needs to be better period. Hope for our sake he does, especially with svechnikov looking like a freak.