6/7 in shootouts

pretty sure that's top 10 and not in the stats to fit your agenda
- homiedclown

“My agenda” is NOT to CHERRY-PICK such a tiny sample & act like it’ll have much meaning over the course of a season

It’s not like we’re gonna be in 20 shootouts this year sir !

ullmark stops 6/7 shots in shootouts


we should have 4 points from that alone, we have 3






game 1, probably losing due to a clunker though the staal turnover turned what could have been a close game, to over


game 2, lose 2-1
ullmark stops 19 of 21
0/5 on pp

I don't blame ullmark for that loss


game 3
6-1 win, no issues on goalie


game 4

3-0 loss
sabres goalies stop 29-31
0-3 on pp
0 goals scored

can't blame that on the goalies



- homiedclown

Not trying to start a pissing match but this is the third time I’m saying I’m
Not blaming them for the losses

That also doesn’t mean they’ve been good

Special teams don’t matter!

Also, FIX THE FRANKING SPECIAL TEAMS!

And go trade for that assistant coach that coached the pp under bylsma... top pp in the league with far less talent.
- Gr8daygo

At even strength our expected goals against us 10.1

Our actual goals against is 15

On PK -

Expected goals against is 2.2
Goals against is - 3

They’ve been worse at EV than on the PK so far

how many games did we have poor goaltending?
- homiedclown

.901 overall save% says we have been poor overall

The terrible goals above expected stats show that our goalies are playing poor overall as well,
and accounts for your excuses of poor play in front of them

Giving up 3goals/game is NOT good sir
Sure, that’s not terrible
But when it happens more often than not,
it’s adds up to be poor overall

Im assuming it won’t be a ton, bc it’s only a handful of games....

But Sbroads made the initial post
I’m sure he can find the exact data
- jdfitz77

I did the math off the charts to confirm the chart to actual goals against...it checks out.
So, about 0.75 per game too many, if one has high confidence in the XGA models.
So, 2 goals every 3 games.

They absolutely could be better, as could the Primary Scoring guys as mentioned.

I guess I wouldn't be taking a hard stance on the goal tending either way.

I would say that 3 guys making $27m for exactly 1 goal in 6 games is more of an eye sore.
Make the right moves to fix that before paying a high price to improve the goal tending.

I did the math off the charts to confirm the chart to actual goals against...it checks out.
So, about 0.75 per game too many, if one has high confidence in the XGA models.
So, 2 goals every 3 games.

They absolutely could be better, as could the Primary Scoring guys as mentioned.

I guess I wouldn't be taking a hard stance on the goal tending either way.

I would say that 3 guys making $27m for exactly 1 goal in 6 games is more of an eye sore.
Make the right moves to fix that before paying a high price to improve the goal tending.
- IonSabres

That will rectify itself. Probably starting tonight. One of these games, Eichel and Hall are going to explode. Like 5 points each

I did the math off the charts to confirm the chart to actual goals against...it checks out.
So, about 0.75 per game too many, if one has high confidence in the XGA models.
So, 2 goals every 3 games.

They absolutely could be better, as could the Primary Scoring guys as mentioned.

I guess I wouldn't be taking a hard stance on the goal tending either way.

I would say that 3 guys making $27m for exactly 1 goal in 6 games is more of an eye sore.
Make the right moves to fix that before paying a high price to improve the goal tending.
- IonSabres

Of course - it doesn’t negate the poor goalie play

If the Sabres were 7-0-0 winning every game 2-1 because the goalies were lights out, would we not still point out that the offense needs to be better?

I did the math off the charts to confirm the chart to actual goals against...it checks out.
So, about 0.75 per game too many, if one has high confidence in the XGA models.
So, 2 goals every 3 games.

They absolutely could be better, as could the Primary Scoring guys as mentioned.

I guess I wouldn't be taking a hard stance on the goal tending either way.

I would say that 3 guys making $27m for exactly 1 goal in 6 games is more of an eye sore.
Make the right moves to fix that before paying a high price to improve the goal tending.
- IonSabres

Why does one have to be done before the other?


I have faith that the scoring will come,
Bc Eichel & Hall have been proven to be really good hockey players
Ullmark & Hutton simply haven’t done that

So I’d simply feel better if we got a goalie that has been PROVEN to be a good hockey player,
as opposed to simply hoping that a 35year old goalie can bounce back to the 1 magical season he had 4years ago with a better team in front of him

It just doesn’t seem realistic to expect more out of Hutton- we know exactly what he is by now,
don’t we???

Of course - it doesn’t negate the poor goalie play

If the Sabres were 7-0-0 winning every game 2-1 because the goalies were lights out, would we not still point out that the offense needs to be better?
- sbroads24

You’re on fire today
Another great point!

“My agenda” is NOT to CHERRY-PICK such a tiny sample & act like it’ll have much meaning over the course of a season

It’s not like we’re gonna be in 20 shootouts this year sir !
- jdfitz77

I didn't cherry pick

I listed every game
Went into detail on every game

Aside from game 1


Maybe 1 point is due to goaltending


Many more due to lack of pp
Even strength scoring
Shootout


We lose a game 3-0

1 of those goals is empty net

Did we lose the game due to goaltending?

I didn't cherry pick

I listed every game
Went into detail on every game

Aside from game 1


Maybe 1 point is due to goaltending


Many more due to lack of pp
Even strength scoring
Shootout


We lose a game 3-0

1 of those goals is empty net

Did we lose the game due to goaltending?
- homiedclown

6/7 in shootouts is cherry-picking an extremely small sample size
True or false?

Of course - it doesn’t negate the poor goalie play

If the Sabres were 7-0-0 winning every game 2-1 because the goalies were lights out, would we not still point out that the offense needs to be better?
- sbroads24

Sure. But the posts came off as pointing the finger at the goalies as The reason. To not mention the drought from the players who are primary goalscorer invites that feedback.
Nothing more, nothing less.

Of course - it doesn’t negate the poor goalie play

If the Sabres were 7-0-0 winning every game 2-1 because the goalies were lights out, would we not still point out that the offense needs to be better?
- sbroads24

Not sustainable was the phrase in 18-19

6/7 in shootouts is cherry-picking an extremely small sample size
True or false?
- jdfitz77

Or high quality saves your not counting

.901 overall save% says we have been poor overall

The terrible goals above expected stats show that our goalies are playing poor overall as well,
and accounts for your excuses of poor play in front of them

Giving up 3goals/game is NOT good sir
Sure, that’s not terrible
But when it happens more often than not,
it’s adds up to be poor overall
- jdfitz77

.903

Or high quality saves your not counting
- homiedclown

Actually, i am
Every goalie makes some good saves


Neither goalie are playing well.....
they are 40th and 44th out of 60 eligible goalies in goals saved above expected.

That’s NOT good, it’s poor

.903
- homiedclown

Still is BAD sir!!!

ullmark stops 6/7 shots in shootouts


we should have 4 points from that alone, we have 3






game 1, probably losing due to a clunker though the staal turnover turned what could have been a close game, to over


game 2, lose 2-1
ullmark stops 19 of 21
0/5 on pp

I don't blame ullmark for that loss


game 3
6-1 win, no issues on goalie


game 4

3-0 loss
sabres goalies stop 29-31
0-3 on pp
0 goals scored

can't blame that on the goalies


game 5
drop 4-3 in shootout
0-2 on pp

ullmark saves 32 of 35
kills a penalty in ot
stops first 3 shootout attempts, caps score on the 4th and game is over as sabres are 0-4 in shootout

I don't blame ullmark for that loss, more on the pp and lack of scoring in shootout

game 6 we won

ullmark stops 31-34
allows 1 5 on 5 goal and stops all 3 shots in shootout

sabres 0 even strength goals



aside from game 1, I still can't see where goaltending cost us


if we don't score in 60 minutes, goes 0-3 on pp and goalies stop 29-31, not on them


if we lose a game 2-1 and go 0-5 on pp and goalie stops 19-21, not on him there
- homiedclown

This is exactly how I have seen it.

No harm in trying to go out and upgrade at any position but the cost has to make sense. It has been reported that Kevin Krueger is trying. AT the same time, please don't sell off the ship to make something happen. Let Ullmark settle in. I think he has more than people here give him credit for plus he is just getting into that sweet spot age where goalies hit their developmental peak and are about to be in their prime.

Also, fancy graphs are garbage when goalies have only played 3 or so games a piece.

This is exactly how I have seen it.

No harm in trying to go out and upgrade and any position but the cost has to make sense. It has been reported that Kevin Krueger is trying. AT the same time, please don't sell off the ship to make something happen. Let Ullmark settle in. I think he has more than people here give him credit for plus he is just getting into that sweet spot age where goalies hit their developmental peak and are about to be in their prime.

Also, fancy graphs are garbage when goalies have only played 3 or so games a piece.
- Bufsaints8

I do like Ullmark ok,
just think it’s very risky to depend on him knowing how inconsistent Hutton is

I don’t wanna see Hall leave & Eichel ask out bc we were too afraid to spend futures to solidify our goaltending
That doesn’t mean i want us to make some terrible trade- but at the same time i do recognize we’ll have to pay up a bit to get the quality of goalie who’s BEEN PROVEN to be good
*and even though i like Ullmark ok,
he simply hasn’t PROVEN we can truly depend on him yet

Why does one have to be done before the other?


I have faith that the scoring will come,
Bc Eichel & Hall have been proven to be really good hockey players
Ullmark & Hutton simply haven’t done that

So I’d simply feel better if we got a goalie that has been PROVEN to be a good hockey player,
as opposed to simply hoping that a 35year old goalie can bounce back to the 1 magical season he had 4years ago with a better team in front of him

It just doesn’t seem realistic to expect more out of Hutton- we know exactly what he is by now,
don’t we???
- jdfitz77

It's all about expectations IMO.
I'm not really expecting more out of Ullmark and Hutton over the long haul. I expect for Ullmark to end up between .910 and .915; while Hutton gets to around .900 - 0.905. They aren't far off in a small sample size so far.
I'm expecting Eichel, Hall and Skinner to get around 65-70 Goals this season. They should have around 6 or 7 thus far and have 1. That is a big fall off so far...but it is early and they are rusty given the past 10 months.

I said earlier in January that I'd give it 15 games before really making some form of evaluation. I'm trying to do that, but this coach continues to make head scratching moves that don't optimize the roster...again IMO.

So, making a trade for a Goalie is complicated more this season, so I expect that to take a fair amount t if time, or the cost would be excessive.
Changing lines to optimize the players on ice takes nothing more than swallowing some pride by Ralph...I think he is hurting this team by not doing so.

Actually, i am
Every goalie makes some good saves


Neither goalie are playing well.....
they are 40th and 44th out of 60 eligible goalies in goals saved above expected.

That’s NOT good, it’s poor
- jdfitz77

Aside from game 1

How did sabres goalies do?


I would say hutton was fine in other two starts

Ullmarks dad died and he got 3 points in 2 games
Would have been 4 if we went 1 for 4 in a shootout


I view 1 bad gane as an outlier


Stay out of the box and score a few goals
Problem solved

I do like Ullmark ok,
just think it’s very risky to depend on him knowing how inconsistent Hutton is

I don’t wanna see Hall leave & Eichel ask out bc we were too afraid to spend futures to solidify our goaltending
- jdfitz77

That's fair...it'll all come down to asking price as you have said before. I do think if it does happen it'll be closer to the trade deadline when some teams start to feel it's not their year to make a push.

It's all about expectations IMO.
I'm not really expecting more out of Ullmark and Hutton over the long haul. I expect for Ullmark to end up between .910 and .915; while Hutton gets to around .900 - 0.905. They aren't far off in a small sample size so far.

I'm expecting Eichel, Hall and Skinner to get around 65-70 Goals this season. They should have around 6 or 7 thus far and have 1. That is a big fall off so far...but it is early and they are rusty given the past 10 months.

I said earlier in January that I'd give it 15 games before really making some form of evaluation. I'm trying to do that, but this coach continues to make head scratching moves that don't optimize the roster...again IMO.

So, making a trade for a Goalie is complicated more this season, so I expect that to take a fair amount t if time, or the cost would be excessive.
Changing lines to optimize the players on ice takes nothing more than swallowing some pride by Ralph...I think he is hurting this team by not doing so.
- IonSabres

For your expectations on Ullmark & Hutton;
that seems reasonable to me

The problem is that i don’t think that’s good enough to get us to the playoffs in this tough division

And I’m all for a better adjustment of the lines-
I think we all are
But in the meantime, we are digging ourselves into a hole that we won’t be able to get out of if we wait too long

Instead of:
Ullmark .913(ish) and Hutton .902(ish)

Isn’t it much better to have:
Kuemper .920(+) and Ullmark .913(ish)

If Hall was signed long term already, and there wasn’t talk about Eichel asking out if we have another bad season....
then I’d be ok being more patient

But that’s not the case
And i don’t wanna risk losing them bc we wouldn’t pay up to get some proven goaltending in here

Aside from game 1

How did sabres goalies do?


I would say hutton was fine in other two starts

Ullmarks dad died and he got 3 points in 2 games
Would have been 4 if we went 1 for 4 in a shootout


I view 1 bad gane as an outlier


Stay out of the box and score a few goals
Problem solved
- homiedclown

More dependable goaltending wins some of those games too

AGAIN
Let’s get this team scoring....
AND
improve the goaltending as well

Why not do both?!?!


Hutton has PROVEN to be inconsistent & undependable
Why is it so bad to want to improve on him???

That's fair...it'll all come down to asking price as you have said before. I do think if it does happen it'll be closer to the trade deadline when some teams start to feel it's not their year to make a push.
- Bufsaints8

Just hope we haven’t dug ourselves in too deep of a hole by then