Yeah, I've liked his two-way game outside of that two game stretch against WAS/FLA. You'd need to find a decent 3rd forward that can play against top lines to play alongside him and Mikheyev.


This team is going to be a mess down the middle when Horvat gets dealt, but that's just something the team has to prepared to accept.
- Nucker101

My guess, it is why they got Studnicka and will be trying him regularly on the 3rd line. I would expect them to try a few different people at centre, over the remainder of the year, assuming of course, that Bo is leaving.

Horvat also hasn't had near the level of production that JTM has over the last 3 years. not even close.
- SMP8719

He also hasn't had the line mates and is just entering his prime. Bo is a better hockey player

Last season that was the case. Other seasons it's much closer.
- boonerbuck

Horvat is career -67 in 9 Seasons including current
JTM is +33 in 12 Seasons

Horvat 144
JTM 217 points last 3 seasons

Not close. Horvat takes the tough assignments but he doesn't thrive at it. Good on FO for sure but he isn't close to a Selke. He also isn't close to the offensive force... he won't score at 23% for the rest of the year

but I was

the second part of your response indicates you might be catching on
- golfingsince

That Vancouver needs to overpay for secondary scoring is what you are alluding too. That's what I said in the first place and you said that answer was unacceptable.

None of the top players are going anywhere lol,
- Bettmanhatesus

Of course not, all these players will be needed to secure the 10th-15th overall pick.

Horvat is career -67 in 9 Seasons including current
JTM is +33 in 12 Seasons

Not close. Horvat takes the tough assignments but he doesn't thrive at it. Good on FO for sure but he isn't close to a Selke.
- SMP8719

So in this season and the two prior, Bo is -2 and JT is -1.

Lets not even get into line mates.

Bo’s camp knows this & why he’ll get paid. Also top 6 C’s are very hard to get via trade or UFA. They along with top 4 RHD always in demand.
- Nighthawk

For sure. But this team needs to establish a plan and stick with it, including making tough decisions. Because whatever they’ve been doing these last few years hasn’t worked.

Can’t just hang onto this mediocre core and pray that some team will help you out by trading you a good top RHD and a good two-way 3C for wingers, because like you said those positions cost a premium and in most cases are just not available.

Horvat is career -67 in 9 Seasons including current
JTM is +33 in 12 Seasons

Not close. Horvat takes the tough assignments but he doesn't thrive at it. Good on FO for sure but he isn't close to a Selke.
- SMP8719

I can't say I have ever heard of Selke candidates being on garbage teams, or of a Selke winner who didn't play with solid linemates, Bo's most solid 2 way player, has been Tanner Pearson.

My guess, it is why they got Studnicka and will be trying him regularly on the 3rd line. I would expect them to try a few different people at centre, over the remainder of the year, assuming of course, that Bo is leaving.
- Reubenkincade

Partly cuz MDP wanted out & Canucks were shy on C depth.

Lane Pederson a nice throw in for the farm.

That Vancouver needs to overpay for secondary scoring is what you are alluding too. That's what I said in the first place and you said that answer was unacceptable.
- manvanfan

No. you (frank)ing idiot what I'm alluding to is just because Miller's value was overrated doesn't mean that Bo's is where you peg it.

He also hasn't had the line mates and is just entering his prime. Bo is a better hockey player
- golfingsince

Very true & Bo suffered longer for going through retools.

Horvat is career -67 in 9 Seasons including current
JTM is +33 in 12 Seasons

Not close. Horvat takes the tough assignments but he doesn't thrive at it. Good on FO for sure but he isn't close to a Selke.
- SMP8719

JTM is further away from a Selke & played on stacked TB teams.

Of course not, all these players will be needed to secure the 10th-15th overall pick.
- A_SteamingLombardi

Always that back up plan 😂👍

So in this season and the two prior, Bo is -2 and JT is -1.

Lets not even get into line mates.
- golfingsince

If you look at all the years in Van and not just cherry pick Horvats best with JTMs worst... it isn't close... in Vancouver together.... it is
Horvat -17
JTM +10

My guess, it is why they got Studnicka and will be trying him regularly on the 3rd line. I would expect them to try a few different people at centre, over the remainder of the year, assuming of course, that Bo is leaving.
- Reubenkincade

I expect Studnicka to end up like most of the reclamation projects we’ve seen here. Most teams just don’t let good young C/D go cheap unless they’ve seen enough to know that they’re just depth filler.

JTM is further away from a Selke & played on stacked TB teams.
- Nighthawk

True but he puts up more then a point a game while playing for Vancouver. Not gonna try and say he is defensive... that isn't his game unfortunately or he would be getting 10 mill or more.

For sure. But this team needs to establish a plan and stick with it, including making tough decisions. Because whatever they’ve been doing these last few years hasn’t worked.

Can’t just hang onto this mediocre core and pray that some team will help you out by trading you a good top RHD and a good two-way 3C for wingers, because like you said those positions cost a premium and in most cases are just not available.
- Nucker101

New regime has had a year & contracts that are hard to unravel. Say they get fired in a year or 2 the next group will inherit less mess. They haven’t made any major mistakes or major improvement to date but have made some nice moves for cheap players. Need more time to fully see what their design will look like & tgen better to judge.

Squire made fair point saying "Vancouver is playing 80's hockey outscoring their problems."

JTM is further away from a Selke & played on stacked TB teams.
- Nighthawk

Miller has a nice +/- from his NYR days

If you look at all the years in Van and not just cherry pick Horvats best with JTMs worst... it isn't close... in Vancouver together.... it is
Horvat -17
JTM +10
- SMP8719

Well JTM was playing with Petey for the bulk of it, Bo was playing with Pearson getting tougher assignments. That's why +/- is a flawed stat

True but he puts up more then a point a game while playing for Vancouver. Not gonna try and say he is defensive... that isn't his game unfortunately or he would be getting 10 mill or more.
- SMP8719

In the end JTM came in at 8/8m which is far better than pundits know. So I say move onto the next biz signing or trading Bo. Boeser was an awkward position that was JB structuring the contract as he did. Players like Pearson Myers & maybe even Garland eat up a lot of cap that was inherited. Lots will depend on what happens with them before this team can really dig out & go forward for real & get us all behind them. Yes nothing has changed our minds but also we have to have the patience it will improve.

Well JTM was playing with Petey for the bulk of it, Bo was playing with Pearson getting tougher assignments. That's why +/- is a flawed stat
- golfingsince

Bo has been the work horse for years while JTM got the best opportunity.

No. you (frank)ing idiot what I'm alluding to is just because Miller's value was overrated doesn't mean that Bo's is where you peg it.
- golfingsince

Who said Miller's value was overrated?

I don't mind talking to you but you are on an island really talking to yourself and the rest of us are just wondering what the (frank) are you are even babbling about.

New regime has had a year & contracts that are hard to unravel. Say they get fired in a year or 2 the next group will inherit less mess. They haven’t made any major mistakes or major improvement to date but have made some nice moves for cheap players. Need more time to fully see what their design will look like & tgen better to judge.
- Nighthawk

So far it seems like the plan is to re-took on the fly and try to make moves to make the playoffs every year. Seems like a very similar plan to previous regime. We’ll see though, the next 7-8 months will be very telling.

Well JTM was playing with Petey for the bulk of it, Bo was playing with Pearson getting tougher assignments. That's why +/- is a flawed stat
- golfingsince

Does anyone have the advanced stats on this? I know Horvat takes many important FO but is he always playing against the other teams top lines that much more compared to JTM? I do figure this to be the case just don't know where to check to look.