In the end JTM came in at 8/8m which is far better than pundits know. So I say move onto the next biz signing or trading Bo. Boeser was an awkward position that was JB structuring the contract as he did. Players like Pearson Myers & maybe even Garland eat up a lot of cap that was inherited. Lots will depend on what happens with them before this team can really dig out & go forward for real & get us all behind them. Yes nothing has changed our minds but also we have to have the patience it will improve.
- Nighthawk

Unfortunately, we're in a position where we might not be able to afford Bo to a reasonable contract. A 5 year deal would likely be best, maybe 6.

We need to move out one of our anchor D contracts.......ASAP. Moving BB and/or Garland would be ideal as well. I don't just want to re-sign Bo, I'd like to find room for Kuz.

Does anyone have the advanced stats on this? I know Horvat takes many important FO but is he always playing against the other teams top lines that much more compared to JTM? I do figure this to be the case just don't know where to check to look.
- SMP8719

I don't have them, but defensive zone starts also has to be much higher. It's pretty obvious who the better 200ft player is, even without the stats

Who said Miller's value was overrated?

I don't mind talking to you but you are on an island really talking to yourself and the rest of us are just wondering what the (frank) are you are even babbling about.
- manvanfan

I figure he would have got that or more on the open Market... maybe not as long for a preferred destination.

None of the top players are going anywhere lol,
- Bettmanhatesus

Tick tock.

I don't have them, but defensive zone starts also has to be much higher. It's pretty obvious who the better 200ft player is, even without the stats
- golfingsince

Don't disagree but it also pretty obvious who is the better offensive player.

So far it seems like the plan is to re-took on the fly and try to make moves to make the playoffs every year. Seems like a very similar plan to previous regime. We’ll see though, the next 7-8 months will be very telling.
- Nucker101

It appears that way. I still maintain mgmt wants to move out cap & build the team as they want it. I’m very satisfied so far on the cheap contracts they’ve added. As JR said he wants to fix the cap allocation.

Unfortunately, we're in a position where we might not be able to afford Bo to a reasonable contract. A 5 year deal would likely be best, maybe 6.

We need to move out one of our anchor D contracts.......ASAP. Moving BB and/or Garland would be ideal as well. I don't just want to re-sign Bo, I'd like to find room for Kuz.
- golfingsince

I'd rather us get out from Miller's contract and Garland and Myers. It'd be great if someone would take OEL off our hands for peanuts but that's never going to happen. I could get behind Petey, Bo, UFA 3C that's 4mil or under (ideally) and Lazar down the middle. It's not going to be pretty, but at least with the cap going up getting rid of Miller, Garland and Myers would allow us room to take on expiring bad contracts for a year or two in exchange for more draft/prospect capital.

I figure he would have got that or more on the open Market... maybe not as long for a preferred destination.
- SMP8719

I feel like that is an old saying pre cap. (Klingbergs agent told him that, he lied)

Thanks to analytics now as well, many have said they aren't over paying players for a single season of shooting 10% more than they normally do or other unsustainable things.

Yes, the cap is going up and that inflates salaries.

As said Miller is 3 straight seasons of a PPG pretty much. Horvat has 27 games.

JTMiller Bo Horvat

GP- 664 599
G-180 190
A-300 205
PTS- 480 395

PPGO.72 0.66

Not seeing this huge difference in points

Also, since Bo has scored more goals he should be paid more, as they pay for goals.

Unfortunately, we're in a position where we might not be able to afford Bo to a reasonable contract. A 5 year deal would likely be best, maybe 6.

We need to move out one of our anchor D contracts.......ASAP. Moving BB and/or Garland would be ideal as well. I don't just want to re-sign Bo, I'd like to find room for Kuz.
- golfingsince

On board 👍

On Kuz he’s found gold & all that’s left is how he stands up to rigours of a full 82 game NHL season. I believe they can start negotiations Jan.1st. 4/4.75 maybe?

I feel like that is an old saying pre cap. (Klingbergs agent told him that, he lied)

Thanks to analytics now as well, many have said they aren't over paying players for a single season of shooting 10% more than they normally do or other unsustainable things.

Yes, the cap is going up and that inflates salaries.

As said Miller is 3 straight seasons of a PPG pretty much. Horvat has 27 games.
- manvanfan

Not sure what you mean... well I do as far as Klingberg being a Dman that can't play def. but you don't think JTM would have gotten 8 as a UFA?

Don't disagree but it also pretty obvious who is the better offensive player.
- SMP8719

Yeah you're right, he's more creative.

I just find it's much easier to win when you aren't forced to score 4 goals a night. JTM outscores a lot of his mistakes, but when he isn't he costs you games IMO.

JTMiller Bo Horvat

GP- 664 599
G-180 190
A-300 205
PTS- 480 395

PPGO.72 0.66

Not seeing this huge difference in points
- Reubenkincade

Well if you believe that Horvat will put up a point per game for 4 seasons in a row as per JTM I guess it is pretty close. Guess the Jury is out still... but I don't see it. I like Horvat as a player but he is not a 8+ milion guy... Name another guy with a max of 61 points in a season that got that much of CAP percentage.

Yeah you're right, he's more creative.

I just find it's much easier to win when you aren't forced to score 4 goals a night. JTM outscores a lot of his mistakes, but when he isn't he costs you games IMO.
- golfingsince

True as many offensive players he is prone to giveaways.

Yeah you're right, he's more creative.

I just find it's much easier to win when you aren't forced to score 4 goals a night. JTM outscores a lot of his mistakes, but when he isn't he costs you games IMO.
- golfingsince

The ‘double edged sword’ effect.

On board 👍

On Kuz he’s found gold & all that’s left is how he stands up to rigours of a full 82 game NHL season. I believe they can start negotiations Jan.1st. 4/4.75 maybe?
- Nighthawk

I think that would be a win... get rid of Garland and there is the CAP.

Well if you believe that Horvat will put up a point per game for 4 seasons in a row as per JTM I guess it is pretty close. Guess the Jury is out still... but I don't see it. I like Horvat as a player but he is not a 8+ milion guy... Name another guy with a max of 61 points in a season that got that much of CAP percentage.
- SMP8719

Nashville has 3 of them although in 1 season, each of them had 1 season over 70 points.

On board 👍

On Kuz he’s found gold & all that’s left is how he stands up to rigours of a full 82 game NHL season. I believe they can start negotiations Jan.1st. 4/4.75 maybe?
- Nighthawk

We'll see how the season goes, if Kuz keeps up his current pace then I doubt 4.75 is anywhere near enough if he wants to get paid. If we get a discount, then it adds value to Mickey's contract which I actually don't mind to begin with. He's cheaper than Garland FFS, and Boeser who is only getting that much due to his qualifying offer.

The guy is a really good forechecker, you have to take advantage of that.

Not sure what you mean... well I do as far as Klingberg being a Dman that can't play def. but you don't think JTM would have gotten 8 as a UFA?
- SMP8719

Talks of Miller getting into the 9's on the open market. Miller's contract in Van isn't 8 something. It's just 8.

I think that would be a win... get rid of Garland and there is the CAP.
- SMP8719

Once again I’m all for moving Garland Myers & Pearson with as little pain as possible even to net zero if all gone. Other option is ride it out on Myers & Pearson for 1 more year & not sweeten to move on.

Once again I’m all for moving Garland Myers & Pearson with as little pain is possible even to net zero if all gone. Other option is ride it out on Myers & Pearson for 1 more year & not sweeten to move on.
- Nighthawk

Like they should have done with those contracts they sent to ARI.

We'll see how the season goes, if Kuz keeps up his current pace then I doubt 4.75 is anywhere near enough if he wants to get paid. If we get a discount, then it adds value to Mickey's contract which I actually don't mind to begin with. He's cheaper than Garland FFS, and Boeser who is only getting that much due to his qualifying offer.

The guy is a really good forechecker, you have to take advantage of that.
- golfingsince

4.75m would be team friendly add more term maybe or go up to 5m.

Like they should have done with those contracts they sent to ARI.
- VanHockeyGuy

They wasn’t them lol

Nashville has 3 of them although in 1 season, each of them had 1 season over 70 points.
- Reubenkincade

Horvat's next best points was 53... those guys all have multiple seasons over 60.

Assuming your are talking Duchene, Johansen, and Forsberg.

Once again I’m all for moving Garland Myers & Pearson with as little pain is possible even to net zero if all gone. Other option is ride it out on Myers & Pearson for 1 more year & not sweeten to move on.
- Nighthawk

Myers is the guy you want to sit on unless you get a really good offer.

Next year his deal expires right? Unless he's willing to come back for a third of the price or so you move him and he'll likely have really positive value as he won't have another year attached.

He has value on most teams but not anywhere near that price tag. Bottom 3 minutes is good, bottom 2 is ideal.