My hot take; JR's been with the team a year, he's been shielded from the heat to this point. I can see him packing it in by this time next year.
- VanHockeyGuy

It probably helps that he doesn't live in Vancouver.

https://nhlrumors.com/nhl-rumors-roope-hintzs-extension-is-a-comparable-any-bo-horvat-talks/2022/11/30/
- Reubenkincade

Hintz PPG are way higher then Horvat.... and getting better.. He is a plus player playing against top lines, And he makes players around him better. Something Horvat doesn't. Horvat is having a great contract year season with an unsustainable shooting percentage during the only season you can compare the 2.

Just my opinion but I would take Hintz Over Horvat all day.

I don't think they are. EP is definitely a guy you build around, Hughes is still an elite defenseman, you just need a younger Luke Schenn to cover for his defensive issues.

In 2014 a rebuild was needed due to aging core. Now a retool is needed due to a young elite core.

Edit: the only reason it makes sense to give up on our young core is if the mess Benning left if truly so bad that it will prevent us from building around them.

I don't believe this is the case, but we need to make a lot of trades over the next couple seasons.
- Retinalz

That's the problem though, why are you trying to build around a defenseman that needs to be heavily sheltered?
You build around solid defenders, not a PP specialist.

Hintz PPG are way higher then Horvat.... and getting better.. He is a plus player playing against top lines, And he makes players around him better. Something Horvat doesn't. Horvat is having a great contract year season with an unsustainable shooting percentage during the only season you can compare the 2.

Just my opinion but I would take Hintz Over Horvat all day.
- SMP8719

I would as well. There is a reason I am on the fence with Bo. He and Miller make a legit 2nd line with Kuz/EP/Mik making a legit top line. we could build around that if we can get rid of other salary. Alternatively, we could trade Bo and hopefully a couple others to go after a top 5 pick and get a younger centre with more upside to help build around EP with.

That's the problem though, why are you trying to build around a defenseman that needs to be heavily sheltered?
You build around solid defenders, not a PP specialist.
- Reubenkincade

He doesnt need to be sheltered. He needs someone to do the heavy lifting when they get shelled in. Hughes can't clear the net and that is his biggest flaw. He defends well against the rush and uses good body positioning vs opponents with the puck. He just has issues with a cycle game due to his size. He and Schenn still make a top 10 (top 5 at one point) pairing in the entire league. That pairing isn't the issue.

https://nhlrumors.com/nhl-rumors-roope-hintzs-extension-is-a-comparable-any-bo-horvat-talks/2022/11/30/
- Reubenkincade

Rick D was also very open about having Green extended.

Hintz PPG are way higher then Horvat.... and getting better.. He is a plus player playing against top lines, And he makes players around him better. Something Horvat doesn't. Horvat is having a great contract year season with an unsustainable shooting percentage during the only season you can compare the 2.

Just my opinion but I would take Hintz Over Horvat all day.
- SMP8719

Other than this season, Bo had 1 other season where he had a winger that could score and he made Brock look good. As a matter of fact, Brock had his best goal scoring year, playing with Bo Horvat.
This year, they put Miller on Bo's line when he was struggling and he has started producing more points, as a result.
For Bo's sake, I really hope they trade him and get out of this shitshow.

Other than this season, Bo had 1 other season where he had a winger that could score and he made Brock look good. As a matter of fact, Brock had his best goal scoring year, playing with Bo Horvat.
This year, they put Miller on Bo's line when he was struggling and he has started producing more points, as a result.
For Bo's sake, I really hope they trade him and get out of this shitshow.
- Reubenkincade

And a better 2 way center to cover for Miller's defensive lapses.

Hintz PPG are way higher then Horvat.... and getting better.. He is a plus player playing against top lines, And he makes players around him better. Something Horvat doesn't. Horvat is having a great contract year season with an unsustainable shooting percentage during the only season you can compare the 2.

Just my opinion but I would take Hintz Over Horvat all day.
- SMP8719

It's close, I do think Jason Robertson is the best player on the Hintz line, Horvat doesn't get to play with a dynamic talent like that, plus Horvat is better at faceoffs and as a powerplay sniper. I agree that Hintz is more effective defensively and a better playmaker making him a more versatile player and easier center to find wingers for.

Pretty reasonable comparison for Horvat and his agent, except Hintz was a RFA with less leverage than Horvat has, and Horvat does have the captaincy feather in his cap as well. I do believe he and his agent will see Hintz as a ballpark for a contract but will feel like Bo deserves a tad more.


The fact is that this team isn't winning poop the next 2-3 years, if the goal is to build a perennial playoff team that has a chance to win the cup then this franchise has to start looking long term. Signing Miller and Horvat aged players to 7-8 year deals is literal insanity. Same team kept together with the usual 2-3 changing parts every year, expecting different results and failing to live up to expectations.

I don't think they are. EP is definitely a guy you build around, Hughes is still an elite defenseman, you just need a younger Luke Schenn to cover for his defensive issues.

In 2014 a rebuild was needed due to aging core. Now a retool is needed due to a young elite core.

Edit: the only reason it makes sense to give up on our young core is if the mess Benning left if truly so bad that it will prevent us from building around them.

I don't believe this is the case, but we need to make a lot of trades over the next couple seasons.
- Retinalz

He had an elite assist on Ovechkin's first goal last night.

Other than this season, Bo had 1 other season where he had a winger that could score and he made Brock look good. As a matter of fact, Brock had his best goal scoring year, playing with Bo Horvat.
This year, they put Miller on Bo's line when he was struggling and he has started producing more points, as a result.
For Bo's sake, I really hope they trade him and get out of this shitshow.
- Reubenkincade

Baertschi also had his best years on Bo's wing.

He had an elite assist on Ovechkin's first goal last night.
- Marwood

Name an elite defenseman that never made mistakes leading to a goal against. I won't hold my breathe here because one doesn't exist and never will.

He doesnt need to be sheltered. He needs someone to do the heavy lifting when they get shelled in. Hughes can't clear the net and that is his biggest flaw. He defends well against the rush and uses good body positioning vs opponents with the puck. He just has issues with a cycle game due to his size. He and Schenn still make a top 10 (top 5 at one point) pairing in the entire league. That pairing isn't the issue.
- Retinalz

Really?
Tampa, Dallas, Boston, Colorado, Vegas and Carolina, have 2 pairing that are better than that pairing, just off the top of my head.

Baertschi also had his best years on Bo's wing.
- A_SteamingLombardi

Good point.

It's close, I do think Jason Robertson is the best player on the Hintz line, Horvat doesn't get to play with a dynamic talent like that, plus Horvat is better at faceoffs and as a powerplay sniper. I agree that Hintz is more effective defensively and a better playmaker making him a more versatile player and easier center to find wingers for.

Pretty reasonable comparison for Horvat and his agent, except Hintz was a RFA with less leverage than Horvat has, and Horvat does have the captaincy feather in his cap as well. I do believe he and his agent will see Hintz as a ballpark for a contract but will feel like Bo deserves a tad more.


The fact is that this team isn't winning poop the next 2-3 years, if the goal is to build a perennial playoff team that has a chance to win the cup then this franchise has to start looking long term. Signing Miller and Horvat aged players to 7-8 year deals is literal insanity. Same team kept together with the usual 2-3 changing parts every year, expecting different results and failing to live up to expectations.
- Nucker101

And this is why I want to trade Bo. Signing him is more building around Bo than it is around EP, trading him is building around EP 100%.

Name an elite defenseman that never made mistakes leading to a goal against. I won't hold my breathe here because one doesn't exist and never will.
- Retinalz

Hughes is a good offensive defenseman, he is not an elite defenseman. He makes those peewee mistakes all too often.

And this is why I want to trade Bo. Signing him is more building around Bo than it is around EP, trading him is building around EP 100%.
- Retinalz

I would also like then to trade Bo, he deserves to be set free.
It will also be interesting to see how badly Pouty gets crushed on a nightly basis, without Bo around to do some heavy lifting.
I would expect to see many more -5 nights.

Hughes is a good offensive defenseman, he is not an elite defenseman. He makes those peewee mistakes all too often.
- Marwood

Yup.

Really?
Tampa, Dallas, Boston, Colorado, Vegas and Carolina, have 2 pairing that are better than that pairing, just off the top of my head.
- Reubenkincade

I fully agree that their top pairings are better but disagree their 2nd pairings are nearly as good.

I would also like then to trade Bo, he deserves to be set free.
It will also be interesting to see how badly Pouty gets crushed on a nightly basis, without Bo around to do some heavy lifting.
I would expect to see many more -5 nights.
- Reubenkincade

Didn't EP play against Vegas' top line and came out on top?

Sure the ages are different, but, imo, the wrong players to try build around, in both scenarios.
- Reubenkincade

You take Elias Pettersson 100 times out of 100, the kid is 23 and turning into a fantastic hockey player. Is he perfect, no, obviously not. But he’s a damn good player. Hughes, for all his offensive prowess they probably should’ve taken a better building block in Noah Dobson. He’s a right shot, he has size and although he’s not overly physical he’s no wallflower either.

EP40 is like Nico Hischier in NJ, is he a main center-piece, no, but he’s also a really good player. It’s about the players they’ve surrounded him with. They took another center in Jack Hughes who’s also soft but they both produce offensively. They filled in around both of them thru the draft and did a much better job in free agency and trades.

Didn't EP play against Vegas' top line and came out on top?
- Retinalz

Time to look at whole picture instead of just individual things here and there.

You take Elias Pettersson 100 times out of 100, the kid is 23 and turning into a fantastic hockey player. Is he perfect, no, obviously not. But he’s a damn good player. Hughes, for all his offensive prowess they probably should’ve taken a better building block in Noah Dobson. He’s a right shot, he has size and although he’s not overly physical he’s no wallflower either.

EP40 is like Nico Hischier in NJ, is he a main center-piece, no, but he’s also a really good player. It’s about the players they’ve surrounded him with. They took another center in Jack Hughes who’s also soft but they both produce offensively. They filled in around both of them thru the draft and did a much better job in free agency and trades.
- DraftandDestroy

What did you have at Jack in the Box today?
Is that the 'restaurant' that your wife owns?

Sorry I think I accidentally flagged this.

I remember Bo mentioning about getting to playoffs and being on a winning team. I am thinking he may have told them that he will wait and see how the season moves along.
- Reubenkincade

Except Bo's agent reached out recently and management said no thanks. Thats not telling them he'll wait.

Didn't EP play against Vegas' top line and came out on top?
- Retinalz

Came out on top how?
Also, if anyone thinks Vegas was playing up to par that game, then I don't know what to say.