It's amazing to me how everyone doesn't see it this way. I mean there is OBJECTIVE evidence that teams that win the Cup almost always have several top 5 picks on their roster. Is that a guarantee? Of course not (see Patrick, Nolan), but like you said, it sure as hell looks like an essential ingredient to me as well.
- daddytc

And the teams that build through the draft don't just lose one year, get a player than say let's compete....like the Flyers think they can.

It has to be over a 3-5 year stretch and the Flyers are unwilling to do that.

So none. And it wouldn’t just be season ticket holders where the corporation would lose money. The corporation loses money on add revenue as tv ratings decline since they own the cable station so it’s a compounded lose for company.

As much as fans want a tank it will never happen in Philadelphia. No GM selling that will get the job. They will have to find another way.
- psuhockey

https://ontapsportsnet.co...tery-connor-bedard-effect
Blackhawks Sell $5.2 Million in Season Tickets After Winning NHL Draft Lottery

https://www.chicagotribun...-pay-off-in-the-long-run/

https://www.sportsbusines...e-increases-united-center

The team’s attendance increased from 17,167 per game in 2022-23 to 18,836 per game this year -- which ranked fourth in the NHL.
..
Faulkner said that since opening season-ticket renewals Feb. 21, the Blackhawks have a renewal rate of 96% and are also “ahead of budget for new membership sales

Then the Flyers are shortsighted. Season ticket holders and fans will buy into it as an intentional, responsible plan but not as the "oops, i did it again" of being a hyped capped out bottom feeder.

The Blackhawks treat their season ticket holders as adults, not as big babies who need instant gratification. It's also helped the Blackhawks innovate to give more value to the season ticket holders. I'm not sure how much of that the Flyers have done.

https://ontapsportsnet.co...tery-connor-bedard-effect
Blackhawks Sell $5.2 Million in Season Tickets After Winning NHL Draft Lottery

https://www.chicagotribun...-pay-off-in-the-long-run/

https://www.sportsbusines...e-increases-united-center

The team’s attendance increased from 17,167 per game in 2022-23 to 18,836 per game this year -- which ranked fourth in the NHL.
..
Faulkner said that since opening season-ticket renewals Feb. 21, the Blackhawks have a renewal rate of 96% and are also “ahead of budget for new membership sales

Then the Flyers are shortsighted. Season ticket holders and fans will buy into it as an intentional, responsible plan but not as the "oops, i did it again" of being a hyped capped out bottom feeder.

The Blackhawks treat their season ticket holders as adults, not as big babies who need instant gratification. It's also helped the Blackhawks innovate to give more value to the season ticket holders. I'm not sure how much of that the Flyers have done.
- Flyers_01

The Blackhawks recently won 3 cups and won the lottery with a player that was hyped for two years. I don’t think Hagens would match the Bedard hype. McKenna in 2026 would probably qualify.

I agree they should tank. I agree it’s shortsighted and will make it harder for them to win a cup but it’s never going to happen. The best one can hope for is a string of goalie injuries where’s it an accidental tank.

stop with the BS blocked by RR. RR has been a sunk cost from day 1 by a regime danny boy was a part of. Actively trying to move him lol. Give you fn head a shake.

They got "blocked" when the management you love re-signed Seeler and brought back EJ.

so yes they do disagree as neither would have played last season if not for the injuries.
- hello it's me 2050

Yes EJ is blocking a kid by sitting in the press box most the season. Give your head a shake. He will be lucky to play as much as Staal did which was a whopping 30 games. Oh yea I forgot he blocked the kids too

Has anyone in the org called the new agent to get some clarity on his situation?
- corduroy

Yes, im 90% sure Briere said on Nasty Knuckles that they are in contact with his new agent. Basically a game of chicken I think at this point. See who caves first. I think Flyers do. Unless they trade him maybe but dont really see any teams really jumping at the chance to add a guy who may never come over. Flyers have also offered to pay for his GF to come over as well.

https://ontapsportsnet.co...tery-connor-bedard-effect
Blackhawks Sell $5.2 Million in Season Tickets After Winning NHL Draft Lottery

https://www.chicagotribun...-pay-off-in-the-long-run/

https://www.sportsbusines...e-increases-united-center

The team’s attendance increased from 17,167 per game in 2022-23 to 18,836 per game this year -- which ranked fourth in the NHL.
..
Faulkner said that since opening season-ticket renewals Feb. 21, the Blackhawks have a renewal rate of 96% and are also “ahead of budget for new membership sales

Then the Flyers are shortsighted. Season ticket holders and fans will buy into it as an intentional, responsible plan but not as the "oops, i did it again" of being a hyped capped out bottom feeder.

The Blackhawks treat their season ticket holders as adults, not as big babies who need instant gratification. It's also helped the Blackhawks innovate to give more value to the season ticket holders. I'm not sure how much of that the Flyers have done.
- Flyers_01

Look at the Hawk's attendance in the 10 odd years pre-Toews... they were only at about 75% capacity on average. As pointed out, Hawks are currently basking in the glow of a recent dynasty. Then Bedard.

There may be fear that teams can fall into a long period of stagnancy like the Hawks did.

It's not just profits; it is risk tolerance on the part of the owners as well.

Management doesnt disagree. One of them is blocked by Ristolainen who the past regime added. They are actively trying to move him to allow someone up
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Where are you getting this information that they are actively trying to move Ristolainen?

The Blackhawks recently won 3 cups and won the lottery with a player that was hyped for two years. I don’t think Hagens would match the Bedard hype. McKenna in 2026 would probably qualify.

I agree they should tank. I agree it’s shortsighted and will make it harder for them to win a cup but it’s never going to happen. The best one can hope for is a string of goalie injuries where’s it an accidental tank.
- psuhockey

The Blackhawks last won the Cup in 2015. 9 years ago. Now here they are, already surpassing the Flyers in future potential. How did they get that player that was hyped? Look at hype for just bringing Michkov over?

Yes EJ is blocking a kid by sitting in the press box most the season. Give your head a shake. He will be lucky to play as much as Staal did which was a whopping 30 games. Oh yea I forgot he blocked the kids too
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

I'll spell it out for you. York, Drysdale, Sanheim and Seeler are locks for the lineup. As a young player, Zamula is an odds on favorite to make the team. That's 5. The #6 spot should be an open spot for competition for a young player with Ristolainen being the fall back player and a 6/7. There was no need for Johnson. He's a safety blanket for the Flyers because they have to compete. There really should be two open spots for young players along with Zamula.

Give your head a shake.

Look at the Hawk's attendance in the 10 odd years pre-Toews... they were only at about 75% capacity on average. As pointed out, Hawks are currently basking in the glow of a recent dynasty. Then Bedard.

There may be fear that teams can fall into a long period of stagnancy like the Hawks did.

It's not just profits; it is risk tolerance on the part of the owners as well.
- PT21

The Blackhawks were a team without a future until Wirtz died in 2007. He was a penny pinching son of a female dog. The previous 10 years the Blackhawks home games weren't even broadcast.

https://cantstopthebleedi...f-the-blackhawks-blackout

To pin that attendance on tanking is an insult to tanking. A crappy product with crappy penny pinching ownership that everyone hated is what caused that.

It's been 9 years since the Blackhawks have been past the 1st round and they've missed the playoffs 6 out of the last 7.

I credit the Blackhawks for the smart thing at the right time rather than it being a cautionary tale for the Flyers to avoid doing the right thing. There's a chance that CHI goes from peak to peak while the Flyers go from valley to valley.

The Flyers have been pretty damned stagnant the last decade and not intentionally. They certainly aren't afraid of spending money to be horrible, maybe try something new and not spend a lot of money to be bad?

The Blackhawks were a team without a future until Wirtz died in 2007. He was a penny pinching son of a female dog. The previous 10 years the Blackhawks home games weren't even broadcast.

https://cantstopthebleedi...f-the-blackhawks-blackout

To pin that attendance on tanking is an insult to tanking. A crappy product with crappy penny pinching ownership that everyone hated is what caused that.

It's been 9 years since the Blackhawks have been past the 1st round and they've missed the playoffs 6 out of the last 7.

I credit the Blackhawks for the smart thing at the right time rather than it being a cautionary tale for the Flyers to avoid doing the right thing. There's a chance that CHI goes from peak to peak while the Flyers go from valley to valley.

The Flyers have been pretty damned stagnant the last decade and not intentionally. They certainly aren't afraid of spending money to be horrible, maybe try something new and not spend a lot of money to be bad?
- Flyers_01

I mention the Hawks because you guys were discussing them and because it is illustrative of what happens if a fanbase tunes out a team.

f you prefer, look at the Sixers in this city before Embiid.

Look at the Hawk's attendance in the 10 odd years pre-Toews... they were only at about 75% capacity on average. As pointed out, Hawks are currently basking in the glow of a recent dynasty. Then Bedard.

There may be fear that teams can fall into a long period of stagnancy like the Hawks did.

It's not just profits; it is risk tolerance on the part of the owners as well.
- PT21

The Hawks have always drawn well in the Madhouse on Madison! Those bad attendance figures were also due to the distaste that Chicagoans had for the owner at that time. As in, he really pissed them off!

The Blackhawks last won the Cup in 2015. 9 years ago. Now here they are, already surpassing the Flyers in future potential. How did they get that player that was hyped? Look at hype for just bringing Michkov over?
- MJL

They lucked out in the lottery again. Just like they did in 2007 when the Flyers SHOULD HAVE gotten Kane!

I mention the Hawks because you guys were discussing them and because it is illustrative of what happens if a fanbase tunes out a team.

f you prefer, look at the Sixers in this city before Embiid.
- PT21

The Sixers and Phillies are always tuned out in this town unless they are very good with stars to market. If the Phillies or Sixers had followed the same path as the Flyers have the last 10+ years they'd both be playing to empty houses. Folks don't like hearing that, but it's always been that way.

They lucked out in the lottery again. Just like they did in 2007 when the Flyers SHOULD HAVE gotten Kane!
- Phillywhiteout

Do you know how to luck out in the lottery? By being in it.

I'll spell it out for you. York, Drysdale, Sanheim and Seeler are locks for the lineup. As a young player, Zamula is an odds on favorite to make the team. That's 5. The #6 spot should be an open spot for competition for a young player with Ristolainen being the fall back player and a 6/7. There was no need for Johnson. He's a safety blanket for the Flyers because they have to compete. There really should be two open spots for young players along with Zamula.

Give your head a shake.
- MJL

Marc Staal was that "Safety Blanket last season, Didnt stop Ginning or Attard from playing when injuries hit Drysdale and Risto....... But hey a guy whos not playing is clearly blocking young guys

Marc-Andre Fleury, First overall in 2003. Evgeni Malkin, second overall 2004. Sidney Crosby, first overall 2005. Jordan Staal, second overall 2006. I understand Pittsburgh was basically the used condom of the league in the early 2000's but I can't help but believe that this was a franchise the league wanted to make work with its rich history. Mario owned them. Mario brought them Cups as player. The league was never gonna allow them to fold, no matter how bad things got with them. So what do you do? You give them a little luck in the lottery and if I remember right, Crosby was pretty fair game coming off a lockout.

As for the Hawks. They were on life support and as it turns out, once the league realized you can sell hockey in Chicago, after failing to do so for along time. Well let's do it again the second Kane and Toews are out the door. I mean, how convenient that the next biggest thing just happens to be in the draft. Keep in mind, Chicago wasn't last place both times they drafted Patrick Kane and Connor Bedard.

My question is, why isn't other locations like Columbus or San Jose getting this lucky? Even Edmonton is getting shot after shot at first overall picks. Taylor Hall (2010), Ryan Nugent-Hopkins (2011), Nail Yakupov (2012), and Connor McDavid (2015). A franchise as rich, if not more than Pittsburgh's.

It just doesn't make sense that 3 franchises can get this lucky decade, after decade. I agree with anyone who believes the only way to get high draft picks is to tank but I also believe tanking is an effective way of cheating but I also believe the league knows how to make money by favoring certain franchises.

Marc Staal was that "Safety Blanket last season, Didnt stop Ginning or Attard from playing when injuries hit Drysdale and Risto....... But hey a guy whos not playing is clearly blocking young guys
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

So injuries have to happen for them to get time as a CALL UP. You don't understand the difference between an injury call up and regular NHL playing time? Attard played 12 games and Ginning played 9.

Both Ginning and Attard along with Andrae should have a legitimate shot at making the team this season. They don't. There was no reason to bring back Johnson.

The Sixers and Phillies are always tuned out in this town unless they are very good with stars to market. If the Phillies or Sixers had followed the same path as the Flyers have the last 10+ years they'd both be playing to empty houses. Folks don't like hearing that, but it's always been that way.
- Phillywhiteout

On the face of it, the revenue saved by cutting salaries and being closer to the floor seemingly exceeds ticket revenue loss. (as Flyer01 pointed out). Thus, on the face of it, tanking makes $ sense.

Unless: the 10-15%% odd drop relative to baseline in attendance the Flyers observed in 22-23 had a more dire impact on revenue than the commensurate 10-15%. For example, it is possible luxury suites/high priced tickets etc were more disproportionately affected, and perhaps the resultant drop in revenue was well in excess of the % drop in attendance.

Also, while concession sales during games might be part of Flyers HRR, pretty sure the lease fees paid by merchants in XFinity would not be, but will matter to Spectacor. Also local TV. Multiplier effect, as psuhockeyfan was saying earlier today.

It just doesn't make sense that 3 franchises can get this lucky decade, after decade.
- roenick97

This is misleadingly stated. Different franchises are "getting lucky" in different periods of time, each at a time when they are bottom dwellers. The same franchises are not "getting lucky" across time.

Nothing unlikely about the former situation. Quite possible if you roll a biased die a few small # of times, the loaded (more likely) face(s) will show up a few times in those rolls.

This is misleadingly stated. Different franchises are "getting lucky" in different periods of time, each at a time when they are bottom dwellers. The same franchises are not "getting lucky" across time.

Nothing unlikely about the former situation. Quite possible if you roll a biased die a few small # of times, the loaded (more likely) face(s) will show up a few times in those rolls.
- PT21

Mario Lemieux = Sidney Crosby

Wayne Gretzky = Connor McDavid

4 of the greatest players in history play for 2 franchises??

Mario Lemieux = Sidney Crosby

Wayne Gretzky = Connor McDavid

4 of the greatest players in history play for 2 franchises??
- roenick97

Well, Grezky was not a lottery pick.

So, just 1 lucky team across all these years? Where by lucky I mean getting at least another superstar after the first one?

Well, Grezky was not a lottery pick.

So, just 1 lucky team across all these years? Where by lucky I mean getting at least another superstar after the first one?
- PT21

I understand this. The point I'm making and stated, the league seems to breathe new life into failing franchises with rich histories.