You said you’d take this past season by Sanheim over anything Provorov ever did.
- roenick97

I did and I would, but what you bolded answered YOUR question.

"I don’t know how Sanheim managed 44 points and still a -20, while doing little damage on the power play and while having a capable defense partner."

There wasn't a single season Provorov played like a top defenseman...yes, not even the year Ghost had 65 points as his partner.

Again I think Provorov when drafted and now is a good top 4, but he isn't and will never be the GO TO guy, neither will Sanheim, but being in the same group I would take Sanheim's play and abilities pure and simple.

Doesn't the same go for the other team? Did they practice the PK?
- MJL

Yes and a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile. To complain about anything in these rookie games is just assigned.

Several interesting posts today ...just to make things more precise though:
1. Which team has stiffed the expert consensus and done better with their pick than that consensus? Iotw, might your standards be too high? By focusing on Flyers failures, maybe you are missing that such misses happen with all teams (when they try to beat the market)and more often than not?
2. Can you provide some examples of your 1st round picks, as expressed around draft day, doing better than actual Flyers picks?
- PT21

We all know your gotcha tactics and I just don't feel like playing. It's not my obligation to feed you.

The biggest concern in your reply was saying "focusing on the Flyers failures" which is actually the opposite...I want to hear the Flyers success stories because I have a hard time finding them...apparently others do too since it takes a lot of digging to find any at all.

This should be a simple discussion for any fans of any team to have to talk about great decisions made by a franchise, but for some reason it's tough for the Flyers. That alone pretty much sums it up.

Yes and a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile. To complain about anything in these rookie games is just assigned.
- WhiskeyMan

I don't think it's asinine or assigned to expect some shots generated on a 5 minute PP in a rookie game.

We all know your gotcha tactics and I just don't feel like playing. It's not my obligation to feed you.

The biggest concern in your reply was saying "focusing on the Flyers failures" which is actually the opposite...I want to hear the Flyers success stories because I have a hard time finding them...apparently others do too since it takes a lot of digging to find any at all.

This should be a simple discussion for any fans of any team to have to talk about great decisions made by a franchise, but for some reason it's tough for the Flyers. That alone pretty much sums it up.
- Glak18

Can you provide some kind of formula that includes letters and symbols?

But we cannot legitimately criticize the decision based soley on what so-called draft experts rank players. Remember Buium was predicted to go between 3 and 7 from the rankings I saw, and he went 13th. You can criticize the Flyers if you want for passing on who some believe is a potential top pairing defenseman, but then you also have to criticize those teams picking 7-11 also which is just silly. The bottom line is we all need to take a breath and wait and see how these players develop. If Luchanko turns out to be a top 6 center while Buium turns out to be a top 4 defenseman, I think the Flyers did just fine. If however Buium develops and Luchanko does not, then its legitmate to criticze the Flyers decision based on actual fact. Right now, its just too early to say one way or the other. It's the draft after all, and its a crap shoot.
- jd250

I don't care if the Flyers drafted a kid ranked 232 in the top 5....just as long as that kid works out to be a stud. The end result is what matters to me and those results is what is frustrating.

I want the Flyers to prove me wrong A LOT, but here's the biggest issue...time.

"Oh you have to be patient and wait to see how it works out before you judge"

I've been waiting a long damn time and still nothing. I know people love resetting the clock, but when is enough is enough. I heard the same tired optimism about Jay O'Brien (Who I absolutely hated as a pick)...has he even played a professional game yet? Seriously that is embarassing.

Can you provide some kind of formula that includes letters and symbols?

- MJL

Let me make some algorithm changes to EK AI for a response. Wait right there....

I'm watching the UFC prelims and after reading that our baby flyers PP is just as solid as our big boy flyers PP I think I made the right decision.

So MM really made that much of a difference? That kid is going to be a stud.
It's about time the hockey gods have thrown us a bone.

We all know your gotcha tactics and I just don't feel like playing. It's not my obligation to feed you.

The biggest concern in your reply was saying "focusing on the Flyers failures" which is actually the opposite...I want to hear the Flyers success stories because I have a hard time finding them...apparently others do too since it takes a lot of digging to find any at all.

This should be a simple discussion for any fans of any team to have to talk about great decisions made by a franchise, but for some reason it's tough for the Flyers. That alone pretty much sums it up.
- Glak18

There was no gotcha intent. It is the next logical step to prove your point.

Say that Flyers have 'reached' in 4 years of 10, in going off rankings to pick someone much lower ranked. And regretted all of those times. That might mean they shouldn't be doing it at all

But lets say the average across teams for reach picks is also 0 successes but in 5 years of trying in 10. That means they actually might actually be doing less of a bad thing than their average competitor. Iotw, that reach part is not explaining their predicament in drafting.

The other part was my personal interest in your prognosticating ability. 😀

I don't care if the Flyers drafted a kid ranked 232 in the top 5....just as long as that kid works out to be a stud. The end result is what matters to me and those results is what is frustrating.

I want the Flyers to prove me wrong A LOT, but here's the biggest issue...time.

"Oh you have to be patient and wait to see how it works out before you judge"

I've been waiting a long damn time and still nothing. I know people love resetting the clock, but when is enough is enough. I heard the same tired optimism about Jay O'Brien (Who I absolutely hated as a pick)...has he even played a professional game yet? Seriously that is embarassing.
- Glak18

How did you feel about Rubtsov?

I'm watching the UFC prelims and after reading that our baby flyers PP is just as solid as our big boy flyers PP I think I made the right decision.

So MM really made that much of a difference? That kid is going to be a stud.
It's about time the hockey gods have thrown us a bone.
- Bob Habib

Wow...what a great play in OT by the line of...

Jett...Mich...and Samuuuu

Sorry Michkov wasn't out, it was Andrae. Great vision to pass it instead of shooting it.

How did you feel about Rubtsov?
- PT21

Easy example...hated it. It was the same rehashed garbage best 200 foot player in the draft and NHL ready.

Taking a lower rated player who likely maxes out at a good 2C is swinging for the fence? It can't be swinging for the fence if there is no elite upside potential. Taking Buium would've been swinging for the fences. That 5 defenseman were taken before Buium is irrelevant to me.
- MJL

Is it irrelevant that 12 teams passed on him?
It will take 3-5 years for us to truly evaluate this and any draft!

I did and I would, but what you bolded answered YOUR question.

"I don’t know how Sanheim managed 44 points and still a -20, while doing little damage on the power play and while having a capable defense partner."

There wasn't a single season Provorov played like a top defenseman...yes, not even the year Ghost had 65 points as his partner.

Again I think Provorov when drafted and now is a good top 4, but he isn't and will never be the GO TO guy, neither will Sanheim, but being in the same group I would take Sanheim's play and abilities pure and simple.
- Glak18

I highly disagree. In fact looking at the defense one year before Provorov’s rookie year and than looking at the roster during Provorov’s rookie year, I’d say, he single-handedly improved things on the backend.

I highly disagree. In fact looking at the defense one year before Provorov’s rookie year and than looking at the roster during Provorov’s rookie year, I’d say, he single-handedly improved things on the backend.
- roenick97

I think he is looking for a higher benchmark than "improved things on the backend" though.

There was no gotcha intent. It is the next logical step to prove your point.

Say that Flyers have 'reached' in 4 years of 10, in going off rankings to pick someone much lower ranked. And regretted all of those times. That might mean they shouldn't be doing it at all

But lets say the average across teams for reach picks is also 0 successes but in 5 years of trying in 10. That means they actually might actually be doing less of a bad thing than their average competitor. Iotw, that reach part is not explaining their predicament in drafting.

The other part was my personal interest in your prognosticating ability. 😀
- PT21

Of course there was a gotcha intent. You didn't get that so you replied anyway. You have this obsession of trying to explain other people's own points to them. You did it with JD and you did it here with Glak. You either agree or disagree. Maybe you can have a normal conversation like a normal person without a graph or formula. Then again, probably not. Too busy trying to desperately prove you're smarter. It's not working.

Is it irrelevant that 12 teams passed on him?
It will take 3-5 years for us to truly evaluate this and any draft!
- Hosher12

Yes, completely irrelevant. Since it will take 3-5 years to truly evaluate it, does that mean that we can't offer opinions until then?

Yes and a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile. To complain about anything in these rookie games is just assigned.
- WhiskeyMan

Does the same apply to praise for players?

I think he is looking for a higher benchmark than "improved things on the backend" though.
- PT21

A 19 year old kid steps into the league and instantly becomes your best defenseman. I love how this isn’t suddenly good enough. We all know Provorov has since regressed but we’re also talking about a kid that led all defenseman in goals in his second season in the league. He also ever had one season with a decent partner.

A 19 year old kid steps into the league and instantly becomes your best defenseman. I love how this isn’t suddenly good enough. We all know Provorov has since regressed but we’re also talking about a kid that led all defenseman in goals in his second season in the league. He also ever had one season with a decent partner.
- roenick97

You are looking at it relative to who we had. I think he is looking with an absolute level in mind. Provy probably showed promise in reaching that level but never got there.

Our players never do get there. Before him, there was Pitkanen, and Coburn in his first season with us...everyone was saying he would be a perennial Norris candidate.

Yes, completely irrelevant. Since it will take 3-5 years to truly evaluate it, does that mean that we can't offer opinions until then?
- MJL

Of course that all we have on here is our opinions. None of us have actuall knowledge of NHL scouting information and even those opinions vary by team.

So to call anything irrelevant is actually irrelevant!

PS. I think Socrates actually said that first to be transparent.

You are looking at it relative to who we had. I think he is looking with an absolute level in mind. Provy probably showed promise in reaching that level but never got there.

Our players never do get there. Before him, there was Pitkanen, and Coburn in his first season with us...everyone was saying he would be a perennial Norris candidate.
- PT21

This isn’t always on the player. Provorov was clearly thrown into the fire or all situations and 23 plus minutes a night. There was no development process. It was basically, sink or swim for Ivan Provorov.

Dude, really no practices and line lare thrown together and you are complaining!
- WhiskeyMan

I was replying to another poster’s comment about the lack of talent with Michkov not in the lineup. They had a 5 minute power play and didn’t have a shot on goal. Suggesting that they could have done better with Michkov in the lineup wasn’t a complaint.

I would take that center over that defenseman any day right now.

A young elite center that lives up to expectations would absolutely change the dynamic of this team OVERNIGHT.

That defenseman would be amazing, but there would be struggles to go with it.

If I built a team right now....would I take a McDavid/Crosby type center or a Hedman/Dahlin/Makar defenseman?

I'm taking that center.

Update: Also to add I would take Sanheim's performance last year over any Provorov's years. Doesn't mean Sanheim is a superstar, just my opinion.
- Glak18

Yeah I’m not with you there. The year Provy scored what around 17 goals he had a very good season overall.
I blame the coaching for his regression.

Glad to see Simmonds back in the organization.
- hello it's me 2050

Another assistant GM?