I think the ship has sailed on Poulin.
- jmatchett383

Don’t tell Tojo that!

Yup. I would have statues of the players standing on each side of a walk way opposite each other. like at the entrance to the arena or something. Each one unique like if they held a stick a specific way or what not.

I know there’s only Mario so far and I’m imaging having like 5 on each side to start with, but you got to start somewhere.
- 10inchTerror

This and the other ideas were interesting. Wouldn’t be shocked if Canada made a golden goal celebration statue. As for Pittsburgh, it’s so difficult. He’s never had the best shot (maybe back hand is up there), but I wouldn’t want a statue of a pass, and how do you depict hockey IQ/work ethic? Maybe him protecting the puck with his rump, and setting up a back hand shot? Or the one handed backhand goal against the Sabres. Maybe the winter classic goal? Or the goal against the islanders after the concussion?

Don’t tell Tojo that!
- Victoro311

It's ok. I'll keep including him until he's waived and claimed, but don't feel like making it a larger conversation that's been done to death.

The coping of the Canadian media over the last 24 hours since this news broke has been hilarious.

If free agents actually ever wanted to come here we’d be in pretty good shape!
- Victoro311

Proof that they don't? I think Gonchar, Trottier, Cullen, Martin, Michalek, Straka, Lang, Comeau, Sheary (returned via FA), Ruutu, Rupp and many more would disagree.

I think a factor in not hauling in a lot big name UFA's the past 10+ years is 3 players took up like 35% of the cap space. Pens had very limited cap and some of that was to do with bad signings and asset management.

Then there's the fact we have no idea who's even being offered money to sign with Pens and for how much. By all accounts Jagr was low balled by Shero and decided to go with the Flyers.

The coping of the Canadian media over the last 24 hours since this news broke has been hilarious.
- SuperHenderson13

I haven't really noticed anything similar to "coping" up this way. Never ever got a sense from any Canadian media that they truly thought that he'd ever end up playing in Canada, or anywhere else, until this past week. You'd see something on social media from a really wack Facebook group, or website, sometimes but nothing from the credible places or channels like TSN or Sportsnet. The only sh!t I heard from anyone that made me at all concerned was Friedman last week and then the very next day Sid extinguished any sparks, or flames, coming from that with his comments on extension.

It's ok. I'll keep including him until he's waived and claimed, but don't feel like making it a larger conversation that's been done to death.
- Tojo.

This is the land of beating dead horses, though.

The UFA thing is a silly narrative. The Pens spend to the cap every year. If they aren't making flashy FA signings it's because they already used their cap space on their own guys and trades. Which considering how often UFA is a fail, is probably the right choice.

Follow up post, it feels like Dubas is essentially trying to recreate 2016 and 2017 where a bunch of guys are able to come up at once and supplement the core. Got goalies, Pickering for the LD, McGroarty, Koivunen, Ponomarev, Broz, Poulin to hopefully fill out the forward ranks. Could full in a lot of the biggest holes. Just unfortunately our core guys aren't in the same place to carry them. But at least some reinforcements are getting close, we hope.
- Tojo.

The coach isn't in the same place either IMO. I think these prospects will need to over-perform to earn a spot over a vet. If it's 50/50, that spot will go to a vet. Sullivan has become the coach that falls into the same rote tendencies to favor experience over youth. I'd much rather have energy and fresh legs at the expense of a few mistakes.

Proof that they don't? I think Gonchar, Trottier, Cullen, Martin, Michalek, Straka, Lang, Comeau, Sheary (returned via FA), Ruutu, Rupp and many more would disagree.

I think a factor in not hauling in a lot big name UFA's the past 10+ years is 3 players took up like 35% of the cap space. Pens had very limited cap and some of that was to do with bad signings and asset management.

Then there's the fact we have no idea who's even being offered money to sign with Pens and for how much. By all accounts Jagr was low balled by Shero and decided to go with the Flyers.
- MattStrat

This is correct. We never had the space to get the best UFA's. Shero low-balled Jagr because he didn't want him. Didn't he prioritize signing Kennedy over Jagr?

The UFA thing is a silly narrative. The Pens spend to the cap every year. If they aren't making flashy FA signings it's because they already used their cap space on their own guys and trades. Which considering how often UFA is a fail, is probably the right choice.
- Tojo.

There have been plenty of seasons we’ve gone in with cap space and couldn’t find a way to use it so we threw it at garbage for the sake of getting to the cap. Off the top of my head, Parise, Suter, Jagr, Hamuies, and Saad all said thanks but no thanks to us and I’m almost positive there’s been more high profile guys that we’ve gone after that we didn’t get and I just can’t remember. Our biggest free agent signings in the past decade that aren’t bottom six/bottom four overpays have been Eric Fehr and Christian Ehrhoff (who was a bust) with the vast majority of our needle moving moves coming through trade. Prior to that, Shero’s big gets were Gonch and Martin and again a whole lot of nothing. We have had an absolutely atrocious track record in FA through like four GM. Not all of that can be blamed on bad evaluation, there’s gotta be something player side at play.

There have been plenty of seasons we’ve gone in with cap space and couldn’t find a way to use it so we threw it at garbage for the sake of getting to the cap. Off the top of my head, Parise, Suter, Jagr, Hamuies, and Saad all said thanks but no thanks to us and I’m almost positive there’s been more high profile guys that we’ve gone after that we didn’t get and I just can’t remember. Our biggest free agent signings in the past decade that aren’t bottom six/bottom four overpays have been Eric Fehr and Christian Ehrhoff (who was a bust) with the vast majority of our needle moving moves coming through trade. Prior to that, Shero’s big gets were Gonch and Martin and again a whole lot of nothing. We have had an absolutely atrocious track record in FA through like four GM. Not all of that can be blamed on bad evaluation, there’s gotta be something player side at play.
- Victoro311

What were they offered and for how long? How much and for how long of a term did those guys want? Parise was born in Minny, and he and Suter were known to be a package signing. Jagr was low balled.

I dont recall a lot of offseasons with a lot of cap space and especially not with no big extenions for important-already-Penguins players on the close horizon.

This is correct. We never had the space to get the best UFA's. Shero low-balled Jagr because he didn't want him. Didn't he prioritize signing Kennedy over Jagr?
- madmike71

I remember Kennedy was signed shortly after Jagr signed with Philly or perhaps it was right before the Jagr/Philly news...the two signings were super close in time to each other. I have no idea if he was prioritized, or not. Could have been Shero waiting to see if he could get Jagr for whatever he offered first before signing Kennedy.

What were they offered and for how long? How much and for how long of a term did those guys want? Parise was born in Minny, and he and Suter were known to be a package signing. Jagr was low balled.

I dont recall a lot of offseasons with a lot of cap space and especially not with no big extenions for important-already-Penguins players on the close horizon.
- MattStrat

We offered the same contract as Minni for Parise and Suter, they chose elsewhere. We traded for Hamhuis’ rights and he signed elsewhere for $2 mil AAV. You don’t trade a third rounder for someone’s rights and then let them walk for that little money, he said no. Jagr signed two years $3.75m. Conflicting reports over whether we low balled him or he was using us as leverage, point is it didn’t work out.

Any offseason with $5 mil or more is enough to make impact signings we have had several of those, and the vast majority of our UFAs have been warm bodies that we pay just because we can. Three legitimate impact outside signings in a decade with two being a vet min (Matt Cullen and Rhuwedel) and all being depth guys is very bad regardless of cap space.

We offered the same contract as Minni for Parise and Suter, they chose elsewhere. We traded for Hamhuis’ rights and he signed elsewhere for $2 mil AAV. You don’t trade a third rounder for someone’s rights and then let them walk for that little money, he said no. Jagr signed two years $3.75m. Conflicting reports over whether we low balled him or he was using us as leverage, point is it didn’t work out.

Any offseason with $5 mil or more is enough to make impact signings we have had several of those, and the vast majority of our UFAs have been warm bodies that we pay just because we can. Three legitimate impact outside signings in a decade with two being a vet min (Matt Cullen and Rhuwedel) and all being depth guys is very bad regardless of cap space.
- Victoro311

Again, Parise was born in Minny...he went home and Suter and him were always signing together. Hamius went home to BC as well, signed with the Nucks instead of the Pens who traded for his rights. I remember Canadian media questioning trading for his rights because it was known that he wanted to be in Vancouver.

As for 5 mill space...thats not a whole lot when there was usually a few spots open for signings and not only that but it was usually spots in bottom 6 or bottom pairing. Usually the big ticket FA's are going to want to be guaranteed to be in top 6 forwards or top pairing, or top 4, of D.

I just dont think there's near enough evidence that the claim players dont want to sign in Pittsburgh is credible. Especially not when you consider the great players that I have listed that have signed over the years.

Again, Parise was born in Minny...he went home and Suter and him were always signing together. Hamius went home to BC as well, signed with the Nucks instead of the Pens who traded for his rights. I remember Canadian media questioning trading for his rights because it was known that he wanted to be in Vancouver.

As for 5 mill space...thats not a whole lot when there was usually a few spots open for signings and not only that but it was usually spots in bottom 6 or bottom pairing. Usually the big ticket FA's are going to want to be guaranteed to be in top 6 forwards or top pairing, or top 4, of D.

I just dont think there's near enough evidence that the claim players dont want to sign in Pittsburgh is credible. Especially not when you consider the great players that I have listed that have signed over the years.
- MattStrat

Rereading your list, most of those guys were over a decade ago. We got Sheary back via trade as a rental. Ruuta was fine but falls into the bottom six/bottom four overpay category with guys like Tanev. Comeau is a good call, forgot about him. Vet min that provided top 9 depth.

But again, pointing at someone like Comeau makes my point that you don’t need a boatload of cap space to make impact signings and we just have not. Do all of our GMs just suck at free agency? I mean maybe Hextall because he sucked at everything but it’s a pretty clear trend we struggle in free agency even comparatively to other teams in similar cap situations

Rereading your list, most of those guys were over a decade ago. We got Sheary back via trade as a rental. Ruuta was fine but falls into the bottom six/bottom four overpay category with guys like Tanev. Comeau is a good call, forgot about him. Vet min that provided top 9 depth.

But again, pointing at someone like Comeau makes my point that you don’t need a boatload of cap space to make impact signings and we just have not. Do all of our GMs just suck at free agency? I mean maybe Hextall because he sucked at everything but it’s a pretty clear trend we struggle in free agency even comparatively to other teams in similar cap situations
- Victoro311

I cant comment on all the other teams that confidently with regards to this topic as I dont follow them as closely. However, on the surface it seems there's been a lot more regrets and bad signings across the league for FAs over the years than there has been good ones haha.

I also didn't know you were only regarding the Sid era...of which Gonch and Ziggy were signed in... albeit for his rookie season....with Mario still in the lineup haha

I remember Kennedy was signed shortly after Jagr signed with Philly or perhaps it was right before the Jagr/Philly news...the two signings were super close in time to each other. I have no idea if he was prioritized, or not. Could have been Shero waiting to see if he could get Jagr for whatever he offered first before signing Kennedy.
- MattStrat

I remember Shero making a comment about the need to pay Kennedy. Can't remember if they signed him before or after. Rumor around town was Shero had no interest in Jagr. Didn't think he had enough left, and only made an offer because of fan pressure.

Doesn't matter. I agree with your premise about UFA's. The Pens have been limited by the cap. Most players (other than Sid), go after the biggest offer. The Pens couldn't compete for those players.

I cant comment on all the other teams that confidently with regards to this topic as I dont follow them as closely. However, on the surface it seems there's been a lot more regrets and bad signings across the league for FAs over the years than there has been good ones haha.

I also didn't know you were only regarding the Sid era...of which Gonch and Ziggy were signed in... albeit for his rookie season....with Mario still in the lineup haha
- MattStrat

I’m only really concerned with the salary cap era since the ball game was way different pre-cap, which is funny because I would assume a market like Pitt would have a much tougher time in the no cap era but I feel like we did better then.

But to close out my point, in recent memory we’ve thrown significant money at Acciari, McGinn, Tanev, and Jack Johnson in almost consecutive offseasons with a couple of breaks between where we thankfully had no money. Last year in particular was frustrating where we had about $6 mil after contracts, a bunch of guys went places on deals, and we got a bunch of garbage. That’s without getting into the whole other discussion of guys we elect to retain/trade for to cut into the cap space that aren’t very good, which I suspect is a product of not doing well in free agency

Rereading your list, most of those guys were over a decade ago. We got Sheary back via trade as a rental. Ruuta was fine but falls into the bottom six/bottom four overpay category with guys like Tanev. Comeau is a good call, forgot about him. Vet min that provided top 9 depth.

But again, pointing at someone like Comeau makes my point that you don’t need a boatload of cap space to make impact signings and we just have not. Do all of our GMs just suck at free agency? I mean maybe Hextall because he sucked at everything but it’s a pretty clear trend we struggle in free agency even comparatively to other teams in similar cap situations
- Victoro311

I mean... The biggest signal that players want to play here (during the Sid/Geno era) is they always resign if given a fair offer. Rak signed. Rust signed. Geno, Sid, Letang, Jarry, Hornie, Kunitz, Orpik, Dumo, MAF, Etc. Guentzal really wanted to come back. So did Zucker.

The only time I can remember a player leaving that the team wanted to keep was Staal and he left to go play with his brother. Also seemed to want an elevated roll. I don't buy that UFA's avoid Pittsburgh.

If I were to blame anything, I'd go the route of bad decisions of the GM's rather than a bias against playing in Pittsburgh. Dubas has been far from perfect lol.

I mean... The biggest signal that players want to play here (during the Sid/Geno era) is they always resign if given a fair offer. Rak signed. Rust signed. Geno, Sid, Letang, Jarry, Hornie, Kunitz, Orpik, Dumo, MAF, Etc. Guentzal really wanted to come back. So did Zucker.

The only time I can remember a player leaving that the team wanted to keep was Staal and he left to go play with his brother. Also seemed to want an elevated roll. I don't buy that UFA's avoid Pittsburgh.

If I were to blame anything, I'd go the route of bad decisions of the GM's rather than a bias against playing in Pittsburgh. Dubas has been far from perfect lol.
- madmike71

Players definitely love it when they get here and I’ve made that point before. Our organization has one of the best player reputations in the league but we almost never sign anyone desirable. It’s weird. I definitely won’t rule out that four consecutive GMs have just sucked at evaluating the UFA market but that just seems like a really long period of time to make the same mistakes over and over through a lot of different brain trusts

The only players that didn’t like it here were Brasard and Smith and like you said Staal was a special case

Crazy that the Pens get another almost 3 mill (2.8) in cap space next offseason with the Petry and Smith salary retentions coming off the books. Then you have the cap raising again plus another 9+ mill in space with Eller, Beauvillier, Neito, Grzelcyk and Shea all UFA.

Didn't mention Petts...he could take up a little chunk of all that extra space if extended...or be gone and there's another 4 mill in cap space available.
- MattStrat

I have been pondering this myself. I think Jarry gets moved at some point which would add some additional space. Maybe if Dubas plans to bring in Marner he may trade off Rakell for a roster spot plus cap space.

I could see Dubas going after some of his old players if we have some space Jake McCabe, Mitch Marner, and John Tavares (pending how Malkin plays).


Chychrun, Ehlers, Kuzmenko, and Brock Nelson are all FAs next year.

I think Broz, McGroarty, and Ponomarev would be cheaper bottom 6 options. Could add Koivunen and Gruden in the discussion for the bottom 6 as well for their PK ability. Bring in a few bigger name players to hold up the stars a bit before they retire and give us some new talent for the next transition.

I mean... The biggest signal that players want to play here (during the Sid/Geno era) is they always resign if given a fair offer. Rak signed. Rust signed. Geno, Sid, Letang, Jarry, Hornie, Kunitz, Orpik, Dumo, MAF, Etc. Guentzal really wanted to come back. So did Zucker.

The only time I can remember a player leaving that the team wanted to keep was Staal and he left to go play with his brother. Also seemed to want an elevated roll. I don't buy that UFA's avoid Pittsburgh.

If I were to blame anything, I'd go the route of bad decisions of the GM's rather than a bias against playing in Pittsburgh. Dubas has been far from perfect lol.
- madmike71

That's the point I was about to make. Listing off all the bad players we signed isn't proof to me that good players don't want to come here. It just shows we throw our limited money at bad players... repeatedly.

I have been pondering this myself. I think Jarry gets moved at some point which would add some additional space. Maybe if Dubas plans to bring in Marner he may trade off Rakell for a roster spot plus cap space.

I could see Dubas going after some of his old players if we have some space Jake McCabe, Mitch Marner, and John Tavares (pending how Malkin plays).


Chychrun, Ehlers, Kuzmenko, and Brock Nelson are all FAs next year.

I think Broz, McGroarty, and Ponomarev would be cheaper bottom 6 options. Could add Koivunen and Gruden in the discussion for the bottom 6 as well for their PK ability. Bring in a few bigger name players to hold up the stars a bit before they retire and give us some new talent for the next transition.
- 123Kid

So many questions to see where the depth is next year. I'm very interested to see how they clear out their goalie logjam, particularly if both Blomquist and Murashov continue to progress well.

Will McGroarty win a spot and if so how high in the line up?

Are Pettersson and DOC retained or are those spots opened?

Where does Hayes end up fitting?

Do any of the young players start to knock down the door? Pickering is most interesting to me here with a gaping hole already at LD and Pettersson set for UFA.

Will they clear a spot for someone like Ponomarev or risk waivers if he isn't forcing the issue?

Do they do anything at the deadline to add a guy longer term like they did with Bunting? Or trade someone unexpected?

Pens could have a top six of Sid, Malkin, Rust, Rakell, McGroarty, and Bunting which isn't spectacular anymore but not really a hole. Third line is maybe Hayes, maybe DOC, or maybe need three top nine forwards though lol.

That's the point I was about to make. Listing off all the bad players we signed isn't proof to me that good players don't want to come here. It just shows we throw our limited money at bad players... repeatedly.
- Tojo.

The Penguins will spend over 8 million dollars this year on Graves, Grzelcyk and JJ. Pretty sure we could have found a really good player with that kind of money.