Location: "It's pretty big loogie on my face, so I was pretty psssted".", PA Joined: 06.26.2007
Sep 24 @ 6:50 PM ET
that is the easy part. lets see how he does with the long term focus. flyers tend to overpay in both money and term. - hello it's me 2050
That is also my concern, they blow their load too early and locking up too many pieces long term only to find when they go to add they have no space and no takers to get rid of the pieces they don't need.
I won't make any big assessments based on either of the first two games TBH. As for last night, that was a bare bones AHL lineup with two borderline goalies. ND was wearing an A for God's sake - Hextall271
The "goalies" could be the elephant š in the room again for the flyers this season.
But this is the Flyers we are talking about. - MBFlyerfan
It really depends on the player. People act like the is a defacto way to develop talent that works every time. Every player is different and has different needs. You have to identify what they need to get better and provide that. Luchenko very much might benefit from making the jump immediately or he might be someone who would benefit from working on his game at a lower level where he can build confidence. Ex. Luchenko would have a lot more freedom as a player working on being creative offensively whereas in the NHL maybe he would be dialed back and trying to play safer to win games. It is also worth pointing out if he does make the team out of camp its not going to be the same as when Couturier made the team out of camp. Couturier played with guys like Matt Read and Rinaldo whereas Luchenko if he makes the team likely plays with Brink and Farabee.
The other aspect is going to be the Front office stuff. To keep him up means using up a year of his entry level deal. One year closer to breaking out the bank for him. The reality is only the Flyers have the information needed to make the correct decision. We just have to hope the decision they make is the right one.
My understanding is Jones and Briere want to send him back to Juniors and arent fans of the 9 game tryout. Charlie O'Connor says the disappointment of being sent back down and not spending training camp with their junior team usually creats a bit of a slow start to the year. Torts on the other hand sees him playing well and he will want him on the team. Luchenko seems very mature for his age, I would think the understanding between him and the team would be that he wouldnt make the team and that going back to Guelph would be better for his development. So giving the 9 game taste I dont think would have the results Briere and Jones fear, plus I think he has played really well so far, you have to reward him for it.
there centers are a joke overall. one of the worst in the league. a talent upgrade is needed
your opinion is always appreciated cliff. - hello it's me 2050
Centers arent a joke. You underestimate the Cs. Couturier has some risk, we dont know if he will fully get back to what he was but at his best he was a #1 Selke C. If he can play well enough to just be an overpaid Center, we can live with that. What we cant live with is with another 20-30 point season.
Frost had 41 points, had some inconsistencies however he missed 11 games due to being a scratch so his point total could have been a few points higher. If he can produce a min of 9 more points than last season, he is producing like a decent #2 and its a step in the right direction.
You keep refering to Laughton as a 4th liner but the reality is he isnt. He had 39 points last season which is very good for a 3rd liner. He doesnt have flashy hands but he gets the job done.
Poehling is a 4th line C and produced very well for a guy of that skill level. He had 28 points which is frantastic for a guy like him. It isnt as simple as saying he played more at the end of the year and just got points from the better players. You need to be able to hold your own on a line for that line to produce. Milan Lucic played with McDavid and he was an anchor to McDavid and hurt his production and Lucic did not get any benefit of playing with him. Point is Poehling played like one of the top 4th line players out there last season and he is just 25 years old.
The issue at C is frankly we dont know what to expect just as with the goaltending. I dont deny Laughton could see himself in a 4th line role in the future if not moved but today is not that time. For better or worse we are stuck with Coots. Frost can be replaced and we all knoiw once Jett makes the team Laughton will be replaced.
Iāll say this. Iāve never been a fan of Tortz the coach but inviting Guy Gaudreau to come coach is a world class move by him. Heās done a good job with this Flyers team and I have a new appreciation for Tortz the person.
Cheers to the Flyers. Hope you guys get a solid season.
Iāll say this. Iāve never been a fan of Tortz the coach but inviting Guy Gaudreau to come coach is a world class move by him. Heās done a good job with this Flyers team and I have a new appreciation for Tortz the person.
Cheers to the Flyers. Hope you guys get a solid season. - Mahewman
It really depends on the player. People act like the is a defacto way to develop talent that works every time. Every player is different and has different needs. You have to identify what they need to get better and provide that. Luchenko very much might benefit from making the jump immediately or he might be someone who would benefit from working on his game at a lower level where he can build confidence. Ex. Luchenko would have a lot more freedom as a player working on being creative offensively whereas in the NHL maybe he would be dialed back and trying to play safer to win games. It is also worth pointing out if he does make the team out of camp its not going to be the same as when Couturier made the team out of camp. Couturier played with guys like Matt Read and Rinaldo whereas Luchenko if he makes the team likely plays with Brink and Farabee.
The other aspect is going to be the Front office stuff. To keep him up means using up a year of his entry level deal. One year closer to breaking out the bank for him. The reality is only the Flyers have the information needed to make the correct decision. We just have to hope the decision they make is the right one.
My understanding is Jones and Briere want to send him back to Juniors and arent fans of the 9 game tryout. Charlie O'Connor says the disappointment of being sent back down and not spending training camp with their junior team usually creats a bit of a slow start to the year. Torts on the other hand sees him playing well and he will want him on the team. Luchenko seems very mature for his age, I would think the understanding between him and the team would be that he wouldnt make the team and that going back to Guelph would be better for his development. So giving the 9 game taste I dont think would have the results Briere and Jones fear, plus I think he has played really well so far, you have to reward him for it. - xShoot4WarAmpsx
He has played in scrimmages and early pre season games against predominantly non-nhl competition. There is nothing to reward him for. You give him positive reinforcement. Outline what he needs to work on and send him back to juniors. You started out with it really depends on the player, which is targeted and specific. Then proceeded to post nothing by generalities. Rather than a focus on the player specifically and if he is actually ready for the NHL. There is no reason to use the 9 game approach. He either makes the team 100% or he doesn't.
Centers arent a joke. You underestimate the Cs. Couturier has some risk, we dont know if he will fully get back to what he was but at his best he was a #1 Selke C. If he can play well enough to just be an overpaid Center, we can live with that. What we cant live with is with another 20-30 point season.
Frost had 41 points, had some inconsistencies however he missed 11 games due to being a scratch so his point total could have been a few points higher. If he can produce a min of 9 more points than last season, he is producing like a decent #2 and its a step in the right direction.
You keep refering to Laughton as a 4th liner but the reality is he isnt. He had 39 points last season which is very good for a 3rd liner. He doesnt have flashy hands but he gets the job done.
Poehling is a 4th line C and produced very well for a guy of that skill level. He had 28 points which is frantastic for a guy like him. It isnt as simple as saying he played more at the end of the year and just got points from the better players. You need to be able to hold your own on a line for that line to produce. Milan Lucic played with McDavid and he was an anchor to McDavid and hurt his production and Lucic did not get any benefit of playing with him. Point is Poehling played like one of the top 4th line players out there last season and he is just 25 years old.
The issue at C is frankly we dont know what to expect just as with the goaltending. I dont deny Laughton could see himself in a 4th line role in the future if not moved but today is not that time. For better or worse we are stuck with Coots. Frost can be replaced and we all knoiw once Jett makes the team Laughton will be replaced. - xShoot4WarAmpsx
This is the same issue as you had when you talked about Poehling having more points than Brink. Poehling had the 7th most 5 on 5 ice time among all Flyers forwards in total ice time. His scoring rate was ranked 12th out of all Flyers forwards. Out of all Flyers forwards who played regularly, only Hathaway and Deslauriers scored at a lower rate at 5 on 5. His offensive production rate was poor. He had 28 points simply because the coach overplayed him. He has no business playing that much. He should be a 4th line center with 4th line ice time.
It really depends on the player. People act like the is a defacto way to develop talent that works every time. Every player is different and has different needs. You have to identify what they need to get better and provide that. Luchenko very much might benefit from making the jump immediately or he might be someone who would benefit from working on his game at a lower level where he can build confidence. Ex. Luchenko would have a lot more freedom as a player working on being creative offensively whereas in the NHL maybe he would be dialed back and trying to play safer to win games. It is also worth pointing out if he does make the team out of camp its not going to be the same as when Couturier made the team out of camp. Couturier played with guys like Matt Read and Rinaldo whereas Luchenko if he makes the team likely plays with Brink and Farabee.
The other aspect is going to be the Front office stuff. To keep him up means using up a year of his entry level deal. One year closer to breaking out the bank for him. The reality is only the Flyers have the information needed to make the correct decision. We just have to hope the decision they make is the right one.
My understanding is Jones and Briere want to send him back to Juniors and arent fans of the 9 game tryout. Charlie O'Connor says the disappointment of being sent back down and not spending training camp with their junior team usually creats a bit of a slow start to the year. Torts on the other hand sees him playing well and he will want him on the team. Luchenko seems very mature for his age, I would think the understanding between him and the team would be that he wouldnt make the team and that going back to Guelph would be better for his development. So giving the 9 game taste I dont think would have the results Briere and Jones fear, plus I think he has played really well so far, you have to reward him for it. - xShoot4WarAmpsx
I agree with all above but in this case, I think the Flyers should not start flirting with immediate gratification and the tryout based on a completely misleading small sample in pre-season. If he does well, it makes it even harder to send him down. The disappointment is greater, the clamor to keep him or bring him up at the slightest opportunity even more. But doing well at this stage, and at the beginning, doesn't carry much info about how well he would fare faced with physical and mental demands many times what he has faced before after the season gets deeper and deeper. He has to satisfy a defensive minded coach, and as the pressure mounts nearer the playoffs, I can see a very real possibility he starts playing safe (as you point out could happen) and you don't want him to do that at a formative stage when such a thinking gets ingrained in him. Couturier probably suffered from his excessive defensive minded usage so early in his stint with us.
The downside to sending him down is much less. At worst, he finds it not challenging enough, not stimulating enough. But he is young, team is not a contender, and this is the time for development. Nothing he can do now will disappear after 1 year. The worst is no development and a status quo and him back when still in his teens next year. That's a pretty vanilla worst.
I agree with all above but in this case, I think the Flyers should not start flirting with immediate gratification and the tryout based on a completely misleading small sample in pre-season. If he does well, it makes it even harder to send him down. The disappointment is greater, the clamor to keep him or bring him up at the slightest opportunity even more. But doing well at this stage, and at the beginning, doesn't carry much info about how well he would fare faced with physical and mental demands many times what he has faced before after the season gets deeper and deeper. He has to satisfy a defensive minded coach, and as the pressure mounts nearer the playoffs, I can see a very real possibility he starts playing safe (as you point out could happen) and you don't want him to do that at a formative stage when such a thinking gets ingrained in him. Couturier probably suffered from his excessive defensive minded usage so early in his stint with us.
The downside to sending him down is much less. At worst, he finds it not challenging enough, not stimulating enough. But he is young, team is not a contender, and this is the time for development. Nothing he can do now will disappear after 1 year. The worst is no development and a status quo and him back when still in his teens next year. That's a pretty vanilla worst. - PT21
Couturier's all around development was definitely hurt by how he was pigeonholed as a defensive checking center. In fairness though, the team situation was different then. They were a team that was a playoff team and had a much stronger roster. It wasn't until Hakstol broke him out of that role, that he jumped up offensively. I completely agree that the downside to keeping him up is potentially far more damaging than sending him back to juniors. Where barring any significant injury, he will get top ice time and probably put up big numbers and grow in confidence in a much better environment for him to work on his weakness. Versus the huge challenge he would face as an 18 year old in the NHL and the damage that could do to his confidence
Location: South Philadelphia, PA Joined: 07.23.2007
Sep 24 @ 8:54 PM ET
Centers arent a joke. You underestimate the Cs. Couturier has some risk, we dont know if he will fully get back to what he was but at his best he was a #1 Selke C. If he can play well enough to just be an overpaid Center, we can live with that. What we cant live with is with another 20-30 point season.
Frost had 41 points, had some inconsistencies however he missed 11 games due to being a scratch so his point total could have been a few points higher. If he can produce a min of 9 more points than last season, he is producing like a decent #2 and its a step in the right direction.
You keep refering to Laughton as a 4th liner but the reality is he isnt. He had 39 points last season which is very good for a 3rd liner. He doesnt have flashy hands but he gets the job done.
Poehling was deployed at a way higher rate than the average 4th line center. He was often in games double-shifted (while Frost and others sat) playing with top 6 wingers.
Poehling is a 4th line C and produced very well for a guy of that skill level. He had 28 points which is frantastic for a guy like him. It isnt as simple as saying he played more at the end of the year and just got points from the better players. You need to be able to hold your own on a line for that line to produce. Milan Lucic played with McDavid and he was an anchor to McDavid and hurt his production and Lucic did not get any benefit of playing with him. Point is Poehling played like one of the top 4th line players out there last season and he is just 25 years old.
The issue at C is frankly we dont know what to expect just as with the goaltending. I dont deny Laughton could see himself in a 4th line role in the future if not moved but today is not that time. For better or worse we are stuck with Coots. Frost can be replaced and we all knoiw once Jett makes the team Laughton will be replaced. - xShoot4WarAmpsx
Location: South Philadelphia, PA Joined: 07.23.2007
Sep 24 @ 8:58 PM ET
Centers arent a joke. You underestimate the Cs. Couturier has some risk, we dont know if he will fully get back to what he was but at his best he was a #1 Selke C. If he can play well enough to just be an overpaid Center, we can live with that. What we cant live with is with another 20-30 point season.
Frost had 41 points, had some inconsistencies however he missed 11 games due to being a scratch so his point total could have been a few points higher. If he can produce a min of 9 more points than last season, he is producing like a decent #2 and its a step in the right direction.
You keep refering to Laughton as a 4th liner but the reality is he isnt. He had 39 points last season which is very good for a 3rd liner. He doesnt have flashy hands but he gets the job done.
Poehling was deployed at a way higher rate than the average 4th line center. He was often in games double-shifted (while Frost and others sat) playing with top 6 wingers.
Poehling is a 4th line C and produced very well for a guy of that skill level. He had 28 points which is frantastic for a guy like him. It isnt as simple as saying he played more at the end of the year and just got points from the better players. You need to be able to hold your own on a line for that line to produce. Milan Lucic played with McDavid and he was an anchor to McDavid and hurt his production and Lucic did not get any benefit of playing with him. Point is Poehling played like one of the top 4th line players out there last season and he is just 25 years old.
The issue at C is frankly we dont know what to expect just as with the goaltending. I dont deny Laughton could see himself in a 4th line role in the future if not moved but today is not that time. For better or worse we are stuck with Coots. Frost can be replaced and we all knoiw once Jett makes the team Laughton will be replaced. - xShoot4WarAmpsx
Poehling was deployed way more than just a 4th line center, often double-shifting with top 6 forwards while players like Frost, Farabee, and Brink sat.
I agree with all above but in this case, I think the Flyers should not start flirting with immediate gratification and the tryout based on a completely misleading small sample in pre-season. If he does well, it makes it even harder to send him down. The disappointment is greater, the clamor to keep him or bring him up at the slightest opportunity even more. But doing well at this stage, and at the beginning, doesn't carry much info about how well he would fare faced with physical and mental demands many times what he has faced before after the season gets deeper and deeper. He has to satisfy a defensive minded coach, and as the pressure mounts nearer the playoffs, I can see a very real possibility he starts playing safe (as you point out could happen) and you don't want him to do that at a formative stage when such a thinking gets ingrained in him. Couturier probably suffered from his excessive defensive minded usage so early in his stint with us.
The downside to sending him down is much less. At worst, he finds it not challenging enough, not stimulating enough. But he is young, team is not a contender, and this is the time for development. Nothing he can do now will disappear after 1 year. The worst is no development and a status quo and him back when still in his teens next year. That's a pretty vanilla worst. - PT21
Giving Jett the 9 games has nothing to do with whether they think heās ready to be full time nhl player. Itās also not an indication they are considering fast tracking him to the show. Itās simply a 9 game nothing burger to reward the guy for an impressive camp, which by all accounts heās had. It can encourage other young guys in his position and light a fire under the ass of some roster players. Itās simply to give him a little treat. He wonāt stay up longer than 9 and anyone whining about it is just bored. Itās just fantasy camp. As long as he doesnāt get injured.
Giving Jett the 9 games has nothing to do with whether they think heās ready to be full time nhl player. Itās also not an indication they are considering fast tracking him to the show. Itās simply a 9 game nothing burger to reward the guy for an impressive camp, which by all accounts heās had. It can encourage other young guys in his position and light a fire under the ass of some roster players. Itās simply to give him a little treat. He wonāt stay up longer than 9 and anyone whining about it is just bored. Itās just fantasy camp. As long as he doesnāt get injured. - anti-lame
Hmmm. It is odd that the central rationale of the tryout is a treat for the player. What happens if he lights it up and scores 6 goals in 9 games? We send him down? is that a treat or a punishment? What happens if he dominates the minors and we make the playoffs or get close and could use him then but the 9 games are all used up?
Just for fun: all you guys talking about the need to preserve our European culture, and you musicians here, and everyone else: what is the piano movement playing in the background at the beginning of this Petyon Manning ad?
Hmmm. It is odd that the central rationale of the tryout is a treat for the player. What happens if he lights it up and scores 6 goals in 9 games? We send him down? is that a treat or a punishment? What happens if he dominates the minors and we make the playoffs or get close and could use him then but the 9 games are all used up? - PT21
The idea of using the 9 games as a reward is ridiculously absurd. Is he the only player who will deserve a reward? Teams use the 9 game plan when they're having a tough time deciding on whether a player is ready or not. So they use it as an extended tryout, this time in regular season action. Not as a reward for a good camp.
There is zero reason to give Luchanko a 9 game stint in the regular season. You only do that if you're on the fence about a player making the team. Luchanko just recently turned 18. The best thing for him to do is go back to juniors. Work on getting stronger and more mature physically. Work on getting stronger on his skates for the NHL game and work on his shot. Jerking a kid around can hurt a player and set him back. - MJL
What if the actual experts, you know, the Flyers NHL coaches, GM, POHO, Advisors believe the kid is ready for a 9 game trial? Chances are the Flyers decision makers will send him back the Juniors, but no one can completely discount the possibility. Is he demonstrating physical and mental maturity in the room? On the practice ice? In the weight room? Weāve only seen him in the rookie game and a game where he played against mostly Capitals prospects.
What if the actual experts, you know, the Flyers NHL coaches, GM, POHO, Advisors believe the kid is ready for a 9 game trial? Chances are the Flyers decision makers will send him back the Juniors, but no one can completely discount the possibility. Is he demonstrating physical and mental maturity in the room? On the practice ice? In the weight room? Weāve only seen him in the rookie game and a game where he played against mostly Capitals prospects. - mikeyo27
What does being ready for a 9 game trial mean? Think about it. You have a player that just turned 18. A player that is not fully physically mature now. Your team is not going to be a contender where adding another skilled player might help you. In that situation, should you focus on what is best for the player or the team? With a player that is ultra important to your future, should you err on the side of caution with that players development? Because if you're going the 9 game route, that means that you are not fully convinced that he is ready for full time NHL duty. You also have a coach that is not exactly a guy who routinely favors the younger players over the vets. Who likes to scratch young players and loses patience fairly quickly. You're right, we've only seen him in a Flyers uniform against overall non-NHL level competition. There is plenty of material out there that details what Luchanko's strengths and weaknesses are as a player and what he needs to improve to play in the NHL.
What if the actual experts, you know, the Flyers NHL coaches, GM, POHO, Advisors believe the kid is ready for a 9 game trial? Chances are the Flyers decision makers will send him back the Juniors, but no one can completely discount the possibility. Is he demonstrating physical and mental maturity in the room? On the practice ice? In the weight room? Weāve only seen him in the rookie game and a game where he played against mostly Capitals prospects. - mikeyo27
Are you trying to tell me that the flyers DON'T consult MJL with personnel decisions??
maybe they heard his tirade for Phil Myers and opted out lol
What does being ready for a 9 game trial mean? Think about it. You have a player that just turned 18. A player that is not fully physically mature now. Your team is not going to be a contender where adding another skilled player might help you. In that situation, should you focus on what is best for the player or the team? With a player that is ultra important to your future, should you err on the side of caution with that players development? Because if you're going the 9 game route, that means that you are not fully convinced that he is ready for full time NHL duty. You also have a coach that is not exactly a guy who routinely favors the younger players over the vets. Who likes to scratch young players and loses patience fairly quickly. You're right, we've only seen him in a Flyers uniform against overall non-NHL level competition. There is plenty of material out there that details what Luchanko's strengths and weaknesses are as a player and what he needs to improve to play in the NHL. - MJL
What do you mean? The impression left by everyone by Luchanko is that heās well filled out physically for a player his age. Thatās why some might want to see where he stands in a regular season NHL game. Luchanko may even be as much if not more filled out than Michkov, Luchanko just lacks Michkovās experience playing against men.
