Whats crazy is the Rangers were waiting to see if the Pens were going to fire Sullivan and they hired Laviolette only after they realized Sully wasnt getting fired.
- hfc355

Sully needs a new beginning just as badly as the team. Seems like neither recognize it. It's been a stale combination for 4 years.

Whats crazy is the Rangers were waiting to see if the Pens were going to fire Sullivan and they hired Laviolette only after they realized Sully wasnt getting fired.
- hfc355

Sullivan is a great coach he's just way past his shelf life with Pens. The minute he parts ways with Pens he will have another job in short order. I think there's a decent chance Laviolette is axed by Rags before Sully is by the Pens... Which could sound crazy at first read but I know most people around here know there's a bit of weight to that statement hahaha

Sullivan is a great coach he's just way past his shelf life with Pens. The minute he parts ways with Pens he will have another job in short order. I think there's a decent chance Laviolette is axed by Rags before Sully is by the Pens... Which could sound crazy at first read but I know most people around here know there's a bit of weight to that statement hahaha
- MattStrat

Absolutely. If I had a team like the Rags or Jersey... He's the perfect guy. Is it possible to get compensation for a coach anymore? He'd be the 1st choice for most teams if he gets fired.

Jarry earns the #1 star in WB/S last night... do you think they should offer Karlsson the same deal.

Sullivan is a great coach he's just way past his shelf life with Pens. The minute he parts ways with Pens he will have another job in short order. I think there's a decent chance Laviolette is axed by Rags before Sully is by the Pens... Which could sound crazy at first read but I know most people around here know there's a bit of weight to that statement hahaha
- MattStrat

If that happens, and I seriously doubt it, Rangers would be all over Sully. Dont see Pens firing him but if that happens Flyers will unload Torts and grab him in a heartbeat

Absolutely. If I had a team like the Rags or Jersey... He's the perfect guy. Is it possible to get compensation for a coach anymore? He'd be the 1st choice for most teams if he gets fired.
- madmike71

Neither team will be looking for a coach this year or next.

Sullivan is a great coach he's just way past his shelf life with Pens. The minute he parts ways with Pens he will have another job in short order. I think there's a decent chance Laviolette is axed by Rags before Sully is by the Pens... Which could sound crazy at first read but I know most people around here know there's a bit of weight to that statement hahaha
- MattStrat

I don't get this narrative that Sully is a great coach. The results just aren't there outside his first few seasons. Knocked out in the first rounds by inferior opponents over and over and now not even able to make the playoffs with rosters that should be good enough to sneak in (especially with great coaching!).

He is Bylsma 2.0.

I don't get this narrative that Sully is a great coach. The results just aren't there outside his first few seasons. Knocked out in the first rounds by inferior opponents over and over and now not even able to make the playoffs with rosters that should be good enough to sneak in (especially with great coaching!).

He is Bylsma 2.0.
- MacPatty

Joel Quinville is waiting.

Joel Quinville is waiting.
- Grinder47

the snowflakes on this team would wet themselves

I don't get this narrative that Sully is a great coach. The results just aren't there outside his first few seasons. Knocked out in the first rounds by inferior opponents over and over and now not even able to make the playoffs with rosters that should be good enough to sneak in (especially with great coaching!).

He is Bylsma 2.0.
- MacPatty

Your recency bias is showing.

Yeah, Bylsma's shelf life expired as well. That's the biggest reason he's 2.0. Having said that I wouldn't put MAF playoff meltdowns on Disco, though. Just like I'm not putting a lot of the early playoffs exits on Sullivan after the back to back cups. The Pens roster contraction/make up started going to sh!t after 2017...no matter if it was Rutherford, Hextall or now Dubas making the calls. There's been a lot more bad personell decisions than good ones since 2017 IMO.

I know he's a great coach besides those cups that were never going to happen to pretty much everyone in the hockey world. Have to remember there was a fairly heavy narrative before the 2016 cup that the window was already close for the Pens. I've seen him get a lot of juice out of lackluster rosters since 2016 (including 2017 cup). The Rangers, a premier team in the league, USA Hockey and many, many more think he is a great coach too.

Also, you're not watching, ridiculing and speculating every single other coach in the league like Sullivan. They all have their quirks and they all make head scratching decisions and mistakes at times.

Madden Monday: 'In a perfect world, I would not want Karlsson or Jarry to ever play for the Penguins again"...Again terrible trade to get EK..

Still October....only 10 games played....two teams I thought are contenders this season, before it started, began the season 0-4 and 0-3....The Preds, who spent millions upon millions beefing up their roster, started 0-5...Devils have lost 5 of their last 7...

Again, I always feel the need to reintegrate that I didnt think they were going to get into the playoffs this season when I post something like that first paragraph haha.... but perhaps that's why I'm not losing my mind or freaking out about being 3-6-1 in the first month.

Did the people who are all up in their heads negatively and half freaking out about the Pens so far this season think they were going to be really good this season?

Still October....only 10 games played....two teams I thought are contenders this season, before it started, began the season 0-4 and 0-3....The Preds, who spent millions upon millions beefing up their roster, started 0-5...Devils have lost 5 of their last 7...

Again, I always feel the need to reintegrate that I didnt think they were going to get into the playoffs this season when I post something like that first paragraph haha.... but perhaps that's why I'm not losing my mind or freaking out about being 3-6-1 in the first month.

Did the people who are all up in their heads negatively and half freaking out about the Pens so far this season think they were going to be really good this season?
- MattStrat

If you look at how they finished last season, and how the team is in fact getting depth scoring with the exact same top six as last year it is concerning

If you look at how they finished last season, and how the team is in fact getting depth scoring with the exact same top six as last year it is concerning
- Grinder47

Its been on the D mostly but the top line has been crap for the most part as well. However, I remember the top line starting sh!t last season as well and that was with Jake there. I remember Sid making boneheaded plays that lead to goals against and people questioning his play without the puck.

I just think that if the top line is one of the biggest problem so far the good news is Sidney Crosby is on it haha. I think it will get sorted. I would put Rak up there with him again with Rust out. If that does well give Rust to Geno whenever he comes back.

Madden Monday: 'In a perfect world, I would not want Karlsson or Jarry to ever play for the Penguins again"...Again terrible trade to get EK..
- jb55

Tbh I think Letang has been pretty bad to start the season. At least my eye watch tells me this.

Tbh I think Letang has been pretty bad to start the season. At least my eye watch tells me this.
- Barnaby36

He's been horrible, maybe worse than EK...maybe. I didnt watch most of the last game as it started close to midnight but the few games before Petts was starting to look a bit stronger with puck and mentally. He's been pretty bad. Gryz hasnt been very good at all. Its crazy but Graves has been perhaps the most steady D-man so far hahah but at the end of the day even he's not setting a very high bar with his play.

Your recency bias is showing.

Yeah, Bylsma's shelf life expired as well. That's the biggest reason he's 2.0. Having said that I wouldn't put MAF playoff meltdowns on Disco, though. Just like I'm not putting a lot of the early playoffs exits on Sullivan after the back to back cups. The Pens roster contraction/make up started going to sh!t after 2017...no matter if it was Rutherford, Hextall or now Dubas making the calls. There's been a lot more bad personell decisions than good ones since 2017 IMO.

I know he's a great coach besides those cups that were never going to happen to pretty much everyone in the hockey world. Have to remember there was a fairly heavy narrative before the 2016 cup that the window was already close for the Pens. I've seen him get a lot of juice out of lackluster rosters since 2016 (including 2017 cup). The Rangers, a premier team in the league, USA Hockey and many, many more think he is a great coach too.

Also, you're not watching, ridiculing and speculating every single other coach in the league like Sullivan. They all have their quirks and they all make head scratching decisions and mistakes at times.
- MattStrat

The one thing that Sullivan does well is he gets out of the way of talent. Those two cups, the team just went out and played pond hockey. Those cup teams were pretty damn well built. Good 1st & 2nd lines, HBK was a killer 3rd line, Matt Cullen was the best 4C in the league. Defence was questionable but we also had two hot goalies. I dont believe the team got lucky in their cup wins, but a ton of people here think that... if people think you got lucky then it clearly wasnt great coaching that helped win those cups.

The problem with getting out of the way of your talent, is when your talent cant flat out dominate the other team, you've got nothing. You can't be a top coach if you can't make the playoffs without a completely stacked roster. He doesn't get anything extra out of his teams and he seems unable to make difficult decisions. The fact he didnt fire his PP coach last season shows that, they pick up the best PP QB and their PP drops to one of the worst in the league, you have to do something... Now... Dubas has done him no favors this season, but it is revisionist to look back and say all of the Pens rosters werent good enough to win a series over the past 6 years. 6 playoff wins in 6 years.

The one thing that Sullivan does well is he gets out of the way of talent. Those two cups, the team just went out and played pond hockey. Those cup teams were pretty damn well built. Good 1st & 2nd lines, HBK was a killer 3rd line, Matt Cullen was the best 4C in the league. Defence was questionable but we also had two hot goalies. I dont believe the team got lucky in their cup wins, but a ton of people here think that... if people think you got lucky then it clearly wasnt great coaching that helped win those cups.

The problem with getting out of the way of your talent, is when your talent cant flat out dominate the other team, you've got nothing. You can't be a top coach if you can't make the playoffs without a completely stacked roster. He doesn't get anything extra out of his teams and he seems unable to make difficult decisions. The fact he didnt fire his PP coach last season shows that, they pick up the best PP QB and their PP drops to one of the worst in the league, you have to do something... Now... Dubas has done him no favors this season, but it is revisionist to look back and say all of the Pens rosters werent good enough to win a series over the past 6 years. 6 playoff wins in 6 years.
- MacPatty

HBK wasn't really a thing in 2017, certainly not those playoffs, as they weren't a good line after the 2016 run. Big part of the lacklustre roster of the 2017 cup team I mentioned was that Letang didn't play a single playoff game and Ron Hainsey was top pair haha

Its not revisionist at all to say that about those years when I was saying the same thing, and agreeing about it with others, in those years as they happened hahaha and besides that its not hard to look at what started happening with Rutherford. What he did to make the 2016, and to lesser extent 2017, team really good he got away from and started doing the opposite with signings and trades. He got away from the good recipe, the recipe that really slaps for Sullivan as the cook...

Still October....only 10 games played....two teams I thought are contenders this season, before it started, began the season 0-4 and 0-3....The Preds, who spent millions upon millions beefing up their roster, started 0-5...Devils have lost 5 of their last 7...

Again, I always feel the need to reintegrate that I didnt think they were going to get into the playoffs this season when I post something like that first paragraph haha.... but perhaps that's why I'm not losing my mind or freaking out about being 3-6-1 in the first month.

Did the people who are all up in their heads negatively and half freaking out about the Pens so far this season think they were going to be really good this season?
- MattStrat

I think most recognize that Dubas is the biggest reason behind the fact the Pens suck this year. Sully is only being brought up because the team seems to have given up on him.

I have gone from:
1. Start of offseason - hopeful that with a few shrewd moves we can have a team that can compete for the playoffs.
2. Mid offseason - Dubas has some crazy plan we are about to find out about. This cant be the plan.
3. Trade for Hayes - There is no hope whatsoever. Lets just hope we are bad enough to get a really good draft pick for once.
4. Super frustrated that Sid has been completely left out to dry and now seems uninterested. My goals for this season have been a) make sure Sid sets the PPG season record. b) structure things so we can get some good prospects and be better positioned to re-tool next year.

I think most recognize that Dubas is the biggest reason behind the fact the Pens suck this year. Sully is only being brought up because the team seems to have given up on him.

I have gone from:
1. Start of offseason - hopeful that with a few shrewd moves we can have a team that can compete for the playoffs.
2. Mid offseason - Dubas has some crazy plan we are about to find out about. This cant be the plan.
3. Trade for Hayes - There is no hope whatsoever. Lets just hope we are bad enough to get a really good draft pick for once.
4. Super frustrated that Sid has been completely left out to dry and now seems uninterested. My goals for this season have been a) make sure Sid sets the PPG season record. b) structure things so we can get some good prospects and be better positioned to re-tool next year.
- MacPatty

Sid is not f'n uninterested in playing hockey for F sakes hahah

Same things were said about Sid last October and then after Jake was traded hahaha

My only concern so far is that Sid hasn't been good -- but he's 37 and it might just take a bit longer to get into gear at this age. I'm hoping he starts to ramp it up on the home stand.

The other stuff -- terrible D, etc -- was expected, as was this team not being able to compete with the top teams in the league. They are in a re-tool year, it is what it is.

Clearly they would've been better this year to not take on Hayes and Glass for picks and sign Grz, but I can't imagine there were any moves out there with that cap space that were going to turn this mess into a legit playoff team. Hopefully they hit on some of the draft picks they took on and it'll be worth it.

I think most recognize that Dubas is the biggest reason behind the fact the Pens suck this year. Sully is only being brought up because the team seems to have given up on him.

I have gone from:
1. Start of offseason - hopeful that with a few shrewd moves we can have a team that can compete for the playoffs.
2. Mid offseason - Dubas has some crazy plan we are about to find out about. This cant be the plan.
3. Trade for Hayes - There is no hope whatsoever. Lets just hope we are bad enough to get a really good draft pick for once.
4. Super frustrated that Sid has been completely left out to dry and now seems uninterested. My goals for this season have been a) make sure Sid sets the PPG season record. b) structure things so we can get some good prospects and be better positioned to re-tool next year.
- MacPatty

Silly and dubas blow. Geno is on a heater. Him and Sid go on line one to get them both going and get Sid his ppg while most likely drafting high. Next year we are getting Mckenna!

My only concern so far is that Sid hasn't been good -- but he's 37 and it might just take a bit longer to get into gear at this age. I'm hoping he starts to ramp it up on the home stand.

The other stuff -- terrible D, etc -- was expected, as was this team not being able to compete with the top teams in the league. They are in a re-tool year, it is what it is.

Clearly they would've been better this year to not take on Hayes and Glass for picks and sign Grz, but I can't imagine there were any moves out there with that cap space that were going to turn this mess into a legit playoff team. Hopefully they hit on some of the draft picks they took on and it'll be worth it.
- MickV

Old bones and bodies take longer to warm up and get going in sports. I have first hand experience with this now hahaha

The one thing that Sullivan does well is he gets out of the way of talent. Those two cups, the team just went out and played pond hockey. Those cup teams were pretty damn well built. Good 1st & 2nd lines, HBK was a killer 3rd line, Matt Cullen was the best 4C in the league. Defence was questionable but we also had two hot goalies. I dont believe the team got lucky in their cup wins, but a ton of people here think that... if people think you got lucky then it clearly wasnt great coaching that helped win those cups.

The problem with getting out of the way of your talent, is when your talent cant flat out dominate the other team, you've got nothing. You can't be a top coach if you can't make the playoffs without a completely stacked roster. He doesn't get anything extra out of his teams and he seems unable to make difficult decisions. The fact he didnt fire his PP coach last season shows that, they pick up the best PP QB and their PP drops to one of the worst in the league, you have to do something... Now... Dubas has done him no favors this season, but it is revisionist to look back and say all of the Pens rosters werent good enough to win a series over the past 6 years. 6 playoff wins in 6 years.
- MacPatty

That's definitely a take.

That's definitely a take.
- j.boyd919

Yeah the whole Sullivan arc has been watching an extremely structured system disintegrate into chaos. Those two cup teams had some of the most structured forechecks I’ve ever seen with healthy letang and when letang went down for the second cup, he changed th whole system of o mimic Lundqvist hockey where he planted a big old box in front of the goalie, forced shots out wide, and made the offense rely on counter strikes. Again, very structured. Nothing close to what we’ve seen the past four years