Lazar 41g 76pts in Junior (1995)
Puempel 28G 46pts 1st AHL year (68 games) (1993)
Claessen 3g 27pts in 2nd AHL year (68 games) (1992)
Pageau 17g 41pts 2nd AHL year (44 games) + 25 NHL games 2 g. (1992)


Brown lead the CHL in scoring. (1994)
Leivo 20 goals 39pts in 55 games 1st AHL year + 7games 1g2pts in the NHL
(25g 48pts over 68 games - comparable to Puempel) (1993)
Percy 2g 21pts 1st AHL year (more than double Claessen's 1st year comparable to his 2nd and he's a year younger) (1993)
McKegg 17g 44pts (1992)


Pretty comparable right there. I guess the Sens have Zilch too?
- burn

good comparison. so then i'll concede that the youth in the system is pretty close (although i still think lazar is the best prospect on either team). but in terms of general youth.......sens have 4 guys who are 22 or less, who are making significant contributions at the NHL level already (zibby, ceci, stone, lehner), where the leafs have only 1 (rielly)..........add in the 23-24 year olds, then ottawa also has (karlsson, wiercioch, turris, hoffman, and i guess cowen if he rebounds), and the leafs have (gardiner, kadri, and i guess holland, although he doesn't play much)

my initial point wasn't that the sens were light years ahead of the leafs, but given the young talent on each team, it's my opinion (obviously yours is different) that ottawa is set up better moving forward.

link?
- burn

i'm trying to load the page so that i can link it...........stupid DND computers are slow.

pretty sure ISS ranks all prospects not currently in the NHL (so guys like mackinnon, barkov, jones, etc) obviously don't count..........they'd obviously all be ranked higher, but they're not exactly prospects at this point.

the only 2 ranked higher than lazar are drouin and allen (G in anaheim)

Don't get hooked into this debate again this year. I am fed up with talk about Kadri being a great prospect, the future of the team and a #1 center for years to come. Nobody gets it more screwed up than Leaf fans when it comes to evaluating prospects.
- spatso

KAdri is terrible?? Compares pretty well to guys like Turris.

Looks like he's better than you said he was years ago and you were wrong about him.

good comparison. so then i'll concede that the youth in the system is pretty close (although i still think lazar is the best prospect on either team). but in terms of general youth.......sens have 4 guys who are 22 or less, who are making significant contributions at the NHL level already (zibby, ceci, stone, lehner), where the leafs have only 1 (rielly)..........add in the 23-24 year olds, then ottawa also has (karlsson, wiercioch, turris, hoffman, and i guess cowen if he rebounds), and the leafs have (gardiner, kadri, and i guess holland, although he doesn't play much)

my initial point wasn't that the sens were light years ahead of the leafs, but given the young talent on each team, it's my opinion (obviously yours is different) that ottawa is set up better moving forward.
- sensarmy_11

Agreed.

KAdri is terrible?? Compares pretty well to guys like Turris.

Looks like he's better than you said he was years ago and you were wrong about him.
- burn

yeah, i think that's a head scratcher too. kadri is definitely NOT a terrible hockey player. i'd take him on my team any day.

maybe he wont' be teh elite, top line center, that some people thought he'd be a couple years ago..........but still a very legit top six player.

good comparison. so then i'll concede that the youth in the system is pretty close (although i still think lazar is the best prospect on either team). but in terms of general youth.......sens have 4 guys who are 22 or less, who are making significant contributions at the NHL level already (zibby, ceci, stone, lehner), where the leafs have only 1 (rielly)..........add in the 23-24 year olds, then ottawa also has (karlsson, wiercioch, turris, hoffman, and i guess cowen if he rebounds), and the leafs have (gardiner, kadri, and i guess holland, although he doesn't play much)

my initial point wasn't that the sens were light years ahead of the leafs, but given the young talent on each team, it's my opinion (obviously yours is different) that ottawa is set up better moving forward.
- sensarmy_11

As for the 2nd part. Leafs have plenty of young guys on the roster. Their guys that have just entered, or are about to enter their prime.

i'm trying to load the page so that i can link it...........stupid DND computers are slow.

pretty sure ISS ranks all prospects not currently in the NHL (so guys like mackinnon, barkov, jones, etc) obviously don't count..........they'd obviously all be ranked higher, but they're not exactly prospects at this point.

the only 2 ranked higher than lazar are drouin and allen (G in anaheim)
- sensarmy_11

I've never seen that before. ISS and CSB only do draft eligibles as far as I know.

yeah, i think that's a head scratcher too. kadri is definitely NOT a terrible hockey player. i'd take him on my team any day.

maybe he wont' be teh elite, top line center, that some people thought he'd be a couple years ago..........but still a very legit top six player.
- sensarmy_11

That guy just can't let go that he was wrong for all these years.... which is weird because the facts have shown it time and time again and he still kept harping on it. Going down with the ship I suppose.

As for the 2nd part. Leafs have plenty of young guys on the roster. Their guys that have just entered, or are about to enter their prime.
- burn

i didn't say they didn't have any good young guys, just that the sens have more guys in that 19-24 range, where the leafs are more in the 23-27 range

to me, that means the leafs "window" is sort of open for the next 3-4 years (with guys like phaneuf, bozak, kessel, etc) in their prime right now. where the sens core players (and i don't consider spezza part of the core) are all 2-3 years mimimum, away from their primes, so their "window" probably won't even open for another 2-3 years, at which point they'll have a core of 7-8 guys in their prime, or about to enter it.

that's why i said that the leafs are probably a little better right now, but that the sens are set up a little better for the future.

That guy just can't let go that he was wrong for all these years.... which is weird because the facts have shown it time and time again and he still kept harping on it. Going down with the ship I suppose.
- burn

there are definitely some criticisms to be made about his game..........which is the same for all young players...........but to say he's a bust, or not good, is ridiculous.

kadri is a top six player on a good chunk of teams in this league........maybe not the real elite teams (chi, sj, stl, bos, etc) but most others.

I've never seen that before. ISS and CSB only do draft eligibles as far as I know.
- burn

it's still opening.....stupid gvt computers

oh, and i said allen from anaheim, i meant gibson.

it's still opening.....stupid gvt computers

oh, and i said allen from anaheim, i meant gibson.
- sensarmy_11

This is the only list at ISS i can find:

http://www.isshockey.com/iss-top-30/

EDIT: unless there is something that only can be opened with membership.

This is the only list at ISS i can find:

http://www.isshockey.com/iss-top-30/
- burn

this is the copy/paste from the google search, but it won't open the damn page.

Drouin, Gibson and Lazar lead scouts’ take on top 10 drafted NHL prospects

From Tampa Bay Lightning top pick Jonathan Drouin to Pittsburgh Penguins prospect Scott Harrington, BTN has teamed up with International Scouting Services to lay out the top 10 drafted NHL prospects. The prospects eligible for the list require a birthdate …

it might be a BTN ranking, that was completed with the help of ISS...as opposed to an actual ISS ranking. point is, it's not a ranking made by a blogger or someone unaffiliated with hockey....it's a legit ranking, made by a legit group.

congrats prock, you've outdone even yourself. this might be the dumbest thing ever posted on-line.

even better than your "dion is a top 10 d-man in the league".

like i said, keep it up..................your posts provide a nice comic relief during the day.
- sensarmy_11

Lupul was PPG his last two seasons, hasn't been as good this year, but it's not as laughable as you seem to think.

And Phaneuf is a very good defenseman, can't find one of his calibre in UFA for less than what he makes. Maybe a few years ago, but not any more... and of course, that's assuming a d-man of his calibre hits UFA... they tend not to.

Clarkson is a bad contract, no doubt. So is Gleason, but at least he does his job. Other than that, we're good on that front.

this is the copy/paste from the google search, but it won't open the damn page.



it might be a BTN ranking, that was completed with the help of ISS...as opposed to an actual ISS ranking. point is, it's not a ranking made by a blogger or someone unaffiliated with hockey....it's a legit ranking, made by a legit group.
- sensarmy_11

Where is this from?? I can't find this at ISS.

Lupul was PPG his last two seasons, hasn't been as good this year, but it's not as laughable as you seem to think.

And Phaneuf is a very good defenseman, can't find one of his calibre in UFA for less than what he makes. Maybe a few years ago, but not any more... and of course, that's assuming a d-man of his calibre hits UFA... they tend not to.

Clarkson is a bad contract, no doubt. So is Gleason, but at least he does his job. Other than that, we're good on that front.
- Feeling Glucky?

i don't question lupul's talent..........i was laughing at prock saying he'd be ottawa's best winger.

ryan is CLEARLY a better player. this season, macarthur is also better. i'd put lupul, at this point, with his lowered production and inability to stay healthy EVER, i'd put him on par with hemsky.

i don't question lupul's talent..........i was laughing at prock saying he'd be ottawa's best winger.

ryan is CLEARLY a better player. this season, macarthur is also better. i'd put lupul, at this point, with his lowered production and inability to stay healthy EVER, i'd put him on par with hemsky.
- sensarmy_11

Problem is Leafs have seen these 2 together for a couple years and lupul without a doubt is the better player. No question.


MacArthur had a very similar year with the Leafs when he first got there, then slowly regressed so bad that at one point during the playoffs last year he was a healthy scratch. Don't go thinking you're getting this out of Mac all the time going forward. Very unlikely.

Where is this from?? I can't find this at ISS.
- burn

it won't load on my stupid work computer

just google "curtis lazar iss".....ignore the hockeyfutures links, and there should be one that talks about lazar, drouin, and gibson

Problem is Leafs have seen these 2 together for a couple years and lupul without a doubt is the better player. No question.


MacArthur had a very similar year with the Leafs when he first got there, then slowly regressed so bad that at one point during the playoffs last year he was a healthy scratch. Don't go thinking you're getting this out of Mac all the time going forward. Very unlikely.
- burn

you guys were playing mac on the 3rd line, in a shutdown role, for the last couple of years. obviously his production is going to decline. as for carlyle making him a healthy scratch........considering the way he handles his roster, and hands out icetime, i'd almost take that as a compliment to macarthur. he went from consistent top six minutes, and being a very productive player in 10/11, to playing 2nd/3rd line minutes and still fairly productive in 11/12, and then in a half season, carlyle used him almost exclusively on the 3rd line, and his production dipped a little (although over a full season, was still on pace for 17-18 goals and 40-45 pts). at this point, all things considered (production, contract, health), i'll take macarthur ANY DAY over lupul.

maybe when healthy, lupul is a better winger, but the guy is NEVER EVER EVER healthy.

the international scouting service always has rankings............perhaps if you actually looked stuff up, instead of talking out of your ass, you wouldn't sound so stupid all the time.
- sensarmy_11

Auto correct on my phone. Was supposed to read post draft, not list draft.

you guys were playing mac on the 3rd line, in a shutdown role, for the last couple of years. obviously his production is going to decline. as for carlyle making him a healthy scratch........considering the way he handles his roster, and hands out icetime, i'd almost take that as a compliment to macarthur.

maybe when healthy, lupul is a better winger, but the guy is NEVER EVER EVER healthy.
- sensarmy_11

Mac played on the 3rd line and was a healthy scratch because that's where he belonged. He was not very good.

Also even when he scored all those pts at the beginning of leafs career (10-11) he was on the 3rd line.

i don't question lupul's talent..........i was laughing at prock saying he'd be ottawa's best winger.

ryan is CLEARLY a better player. this season, macarthur is also better. i'd put lupul, at this point, with his lowered production and inability to stay healthy EVER, i'd put him on par with hemsky.
- sensarmy_11

Honestly, after a few years of MacArthur, I wouldn't put him on the Marlie's top-6.

Guy had a good first season with us, and he's having a good season with you guys, too... but in both situations, he was getting undeserved minutes. Leafs didn't turn it around until he was relegated to the 3rd line... and this year without him, they were in 3rd until their starting goalie got injured.

He looks good on bad teams, but if he's one of your top minute eaters, your team is flat-out not good.

I'd put Lupul, health concerns and all as your number 2 winger, by a fairly wide margin... and if it weren't for the health issues, he could easily make an argument for #1.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.c...10-drafted-132446821.html

It's a yahoo article, with a very narrow scope, and input from 1 scout from ISS.

riveting stuff.

Phaneuf is one of the better two way defenseman around.
- prock

That's something I'd think a delusional leaf fan would believe..............oh wait!

Sports Illustrated puts out an annual list of the NHL's most overrated players, and Phaneuf is either number one or number two.

Objective leaf fans know this, but delusional ones actually believe as you do.

Did you not watch Phaneuf standing in front of his net, when Boston scored the last two goals of the third period in last year, in game 7? He was standing by himself, LOOKING at Chara or Lucic, not checking or tying them up, LOOKING at them.

If that's what passes for "one of the better two way defenseman around" in your eyes, then you're welcome to him.


On Boston's third goal, Dion passes the puck to a Bruin's winger at the side of the net, he passes in back to the point, the shot comes to the leaf's net, Lucic is standing there with Dion standing a few feet away LOOKING at him as he scoops up the rebound and puts it in the net.


On Boston's fourth goal, Chara nudges Dion away from the front of the leaf's net, and he stays away, does a shoulder check and LOOKS at Chara deflecting the point shot into the net.


Those two goals put the game into overtime, and wisely Carlye had the common sense to not use Dion much in the overtime, but that was not enough............the leafs choked away the game mostly because of their timid captain's unwillingness to battle for space in front of his own net, the leafs suffered the worst third period collapse, in a game seven, in Stanley Cup history



IF Dion did his job, the leafs would have easily advanced to the second round last year.



start watching from about the 0755 min mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbsj9-JZm4g

That's something I'd think a delusional leaf fan would believe..............oh wait!

Sports Illustrated puts out an annual list of the NHL's most overrated players, and Phaneuf is either number one or number two.

Objective leaf fans know this, but delusional ones actually believe as you do.

Did you not watch Phaneuf standing in front of his net, when Boston scored the last two goals of the third period in last year, in game 7? He was standing by himself, LOOKING at Chara or Lucic, not checking or tying them up, LOOKING at them.

If that's what passes for "one of the better two way defenseman around" in your eyes, then you're welcome to him.


On Boston's third goal, Dion passes the puck to a Bruin's winger at the side of the net, he passes in back to the point, the shot comes to the leaf's net, Lucic is standing there with Dion standing a few feet away LOOKING at him as he scoops up the rebound and puts it in the net.


On Boston's fourth goal, Chara nudges Dion away from the front of the leaf's net, and he stays away, does a shoulder check and LOOKS at Chara deflecting the point shot into the net.


Those two goals put the game into overtime, and wisely Carlye had the common sense to not use Dion much in the overtime, but that was not enough............the leafs choked away the game mostly because of their timid captain's unwillingness to battle for space in front of his own net, the leafs suffered the worst third period collapse, in a game seven, in Stanley Cup history



IF Dion did his job, the leafs would have easily advanced to the second round last year.



start watching from about the 0755 min mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbsj9-JZm4g
- Doppleganger

please don't post your pornography here.