it won't load on my stupid work computer

just google "curtis lazar iss".....ignore the hockeyfutures links, and there should be one that talks about lazar, drouin, and gibson
- sensarmy_11

https://ca.sports.yahoo.c...10-drafted-132446821.html

It's from Yahoo.



They have Griffin Reihnhart at 5. Not sold on him at all. Not a fan. Don't see an elite talent there. Looks like Scott Hannan/John Erskine/ Hall Gill.

this is the copy/paste from the google search, but it won't open the damn page.



it might be a BTN ranking, that was completed with the help of ISS...as opposed to an actual ISS ranking. point is, it's not a ranking made by a blogger or someone unaffiliated with hockey....it's a legit ranking, made by a legit group.
- sensarmy_11

I found that. Not made by a group at all. The head scout. Just one guy.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/jrhockey-buzzing-the-net/drouin-gibson-lazar-lead-scouts-top-10-drafted-132446821.html

It's a yahoo article, with a very narrow scope, and input from 1 scout from ISS.

riveting stuff.
- Feeling Glucky?

#5 is terrible.

Mac played on the 3rd line and was a healthy scratch because that's where he belonged. He was not very good.

Also even when he scored all those pts at the beginning of leafs career (10-11) he was on the 3rd line.
- burn

well, he and his line were averaging between 17-18 minutes a night.....that seems like 2nd line minutes to me. 2 years ago, he was averaging between 15-16, which seems like he was jumping from 2nd to 3rd, and last year he was averaging just 14 minutes....which is definitely 3rd line.

maybe he's just more comfortable in the sens system, i don't know. but watching him play every night, he's DEFINITELY a top six forward, and i really can't see anything wrong with his game.

EVERY stat this year, be it goals, pts, +/-, corsi, pk, low giveaways, high takeaways, even his hits are pretty high...............he's literally done NOTHING wrong all season.

like i said, maybe he's a diffent player in ottawa based on teh system, i don't know, but there haven't been any holes in his game all year.

I found that. Not made by a group at all. The head scout. Just one guy.
- prock

so the opinion of the head scout, of the larging hockey scouting organization in teh world, is irrelevant.

and do you honestly think that guy doesn't listen to all his scouts before forming his opinion.

well, he and his line were averaging between 17-18 minutes a night.....that seems like 2nd line minutes to me. 2 years ago, he was averaging between 15-16, which seems like he was jumping from 2nd to 3rd, and last year he was averaging just 14 minutes....which is definitely 3rd line.

maybe he's just more comfortable in the sens system, i don't know. but watching him play every night, he's DEFINITELY a top six forward, and i really can't see anything wrong with his game.

EVERY stat this year, be it goals, pts, +/-, corsi, pk, low giveaways, high takeaways, even his hits are pretty high...............he's literally done NOTHING wrong all season.

like i said, maybe he's a diffent player in ottawa based on teh system, i don't know, but there haven't been any holes in his game all year.
- sensarmy_11

first couple of seasons he was on a line with Grabo and Kulemin, where Kulie was the defensive consciousness and the other two were allowed free reign.

Last year, his line couldn't keep up with the Kessel or Kadri lines, though MacA got bumped up to the 2nd line from time to time.

well, he and his line were averaging between 17-18 minutes a night.....that seems like 2nd line minutes to me. 2 years ago, he was averaging between 15-16, which seems like he was jumping from 2nd to 3rd, and last year he was averaging just 14 minutes....which is definitely 3rd line.

maybe he's just more comfortable in the sens system, i don't know. but watching him play every night, he's DEFINITELY a top six forward, and i really can't see anything wrong with his game.

EVERY stat this year, be it goals, pts, +/-, corsi, pk, low giveaways, high takeaways, even his hits are pretty high...............he's literally done NOTHING wrong all season.

like i said, maybe he's a diffent player in ottawa based on teh system, i don't know, but there haven't been any holes in his game all year.
- sensarmy_11

(bold)7th on the team in mins played.


(underline)But see this is exactly what I'm saying. His first year we all said the exact same things. He's more comfortable here in Toronto and more mature than when in Buffalo and ATL. That lasted one year, and each successive year became worse and worse.

All I'm saying is do not count on him to repeat. Seen this story before.

so the opinion of the head scout, of the larging hockey scouting organization in teh world, is irrelevant.

and do you honestly think that guy doesn't listen to all his scouts before forming his opinion.
- sensarmy_11

when making ISS stuff, yes, I'm sure he does.

When helping a guy out at Yahoo to get more hits on his site? Probably not gonna bring in all the scouts on that one.


This reminds me of a couple of seasons ago when Schenn and Hodgson were the best prospects in the world, when you ignored the guys in upcoming drafts and the guys good enough that they already made the NHL.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/buzzing-the-net/drouin-gibson-lazar-lead-scouts-top-10-drafted-132446821.html

It's from Yahoo.



They have Griffin Reihnhart at 5. Not sold on him at all. Not a fan. Don't see an elite talent there. Looks like Scott Hannan/John Erskine/ Hall Gill.
- burn

yahoo didn't make the rankings, just wrote an article about it.

i'm not 100% sold on reinhardt either, but it's very hit or miss with big young physical d-men. their development is so up and down all the time.

hell, look at chara when he was younger.......

or take the other approach...cowen looked like a legit top 4 nhl d-man when he was 21, and now i'm not sure he's good enough to play in the top six of our AHL team.....and for all we know, he could completely rebound next year.

i think reinhardt will probably end up being a steady NHL d-man, but i think he might have been drafted a little high. but scouts and GMs just have such hard-ons for those big physical d-men.

(bold)7th on the team in mins played.


(underline)But see this is exactly what I'm saying. His first year we all said the exact same things. He's more comfortable here in Toronto and more mature than when in Buffalo and ATL. That lasted one year, and each successive year became worse and worse.

All I'm saying is do not count on him to repeat. Seen this story before.
- burn

fair enough. and you're right, he could certainly regress next year.

however, as of right now, he's great. and as of right now, i'd take him over lupul. next year, i could certainly be singing a different tune.

when making ISS stuff, yes, I'm sure he does.

When helping a guy out at Yahoo to get more hits on his site? Probably not gonna bring in all the scouts on that one.


This reminds me of a couple of seasons ago when Schenn and Hodgson were the best prospects in the world, when you ignored the guys in upcoming drafts and the guys good enough that they already made the NHL.
- Feeling Glucky?

i'm sure if he was trying to help generate hits, he isn't putting tampa bay and ottawa prospects at the top of the list......he's throwing ranger, and leafs, and habs prospects at the top.

obviously ALL rankings are subjective, but when the head scout at ISS thinks that lazar should be ranked just behind drouin, and ahead of SEVERAL players drafted ahead of him, it's safe to say that he's a pretty damn good prospect.

(bold)7th on the team in mins played.


(underline)But see this is exactly what I'm saying. His first year we all said the exact same things. He's more comfortable here in Toronto and more mature than when in Buffalo and ATL. That lasted one year, and each successive year became worse and worse.

All I'm saying is do not count on him to repeat. Seen this story before.
- burn

man, didn't notice that, just say how many minutes he played. you guys must have really spread the minutes out evenly that season.

yahoo didn't make the rankings, just wrote an article about it.

i'm not 100% sold on reinhardt either, but it's very hit or miss with big young physical d-men. their development is so up and down all the time.

hell, look at chara when he was younger.......

or take the other approach...cowen looked like a legit top 4 nhl d-man when he was 21, and now i'm not sure he's good enough to play in the top six of our AHL team.....and for all we know, he could completely rebound next year.

i think reinhardt will probably end up being a steady NHL d-man, but i think he might have been drafted a little high. but scouts and GMs just have such hard-ons for those big physical d-men.
- sensarmy_11

I don't think that Reinhart's top high end ceilling is close to being on this list. Even if he maxes out (I think he becomes an NHL'er someday) I see someone like a I said Hannon/Erskine ect. I don't think he should be close to that list.

HArrington as well. Seems unreasonably high. Leafs have a Dman that have the exact same stats as him (both 1st year AHL'er). Not sure what he's doing so high. If he's that highly thought of then Percy just bumped up hugely in his rankings as well.

ISS has him at 3

but if you believe HF about lazar, then you have to believe them about the leafs prospects being poop........so what is it.
- sensarmy_11

Just one point on Lazar, as a 19-year-old player, he must either make the Senators next season in the NHL or play Junior, the AHL is not an option as far as I know.

I don't want to see him rushed in the NHL next season, and would suggest he'd be better served developing in Junior.

I don't think that Reinhart's top high end ceilling is close to being on this list. Even if he maxes out (I think he becomes an NHL'er someday) I see someone like a I said Hannon/Erskine ect. I don't think he should be close to that list.

HArrington as well. Seems unreasonably high. Leafs have a Dman that have the exact same stats as him (both 1st year AHL'er). Not sure what he's doing so high. If he's that highly thought of then Percy just bumped up hugely in his rankings as well.
- burn

i thought the same about harrington too. d-men really are a crapshoot to predict though, it's much easier (and usually much more accurate) to project how good a forward will be.

it almost seems like a good number of the best d-men in the league right now, were either mid-1st rounders, or even later (karlsson, weber, chara, letang, mcdonough, shattenkirk, gryba (just kidding )

obviously there are also great ones taken in teh top 10 (doughty, piets, etc), but there seems to be an unusual amount of top 10 d-men who completely flop, or never come close to living up to their potential (schenn, cowen, hickey, j. johnson, e. johnson, cam barker, brian lee, etc, etc, etc)

i thought the same about harrington too. d-men really are a crapshoot to predict though, it's much easier (and usually much more accurate) to project how good a forward will be.

it almost seems like a good number of the best d-men in the league right now, were either mid-1st rounders, or even later (karlsson, weber, chara, letang, mcdonough, shattenkirk, gryba (just kidding )

obviously there are also great ones taken in teh top 10 (doughty, piets, etc), but there seems to be an unusual amount of top 10 d-men who completely flop, or never come close to living up to their potential (schenn, cowen, hickey, j. johnson, e. johnson, cam barker, brian lee, etc, etc, etc)
- sensarmy_11

Agreed.

phaneuf is not worth anywhere CLOSE to what he's paid. perhaps you should look to your fellow leaf fans, who all agree with me...not you. he's a 5-5.5 mil dman at most. you also have him signed until the year 2021, which is even worse then the amount of money.

you also have lupul at 5.5 for another 4-5 years. you're probably gonna have boland at 5 mil for 6-8 years (cuz leaf management is ABSOLUTELY that stupid), gleason at 4 mil (the guy is worse than komisarek was).

your team (assuming they sign boland, which they will) has almost 22 million invested in phaneuf, lupul, boland, clarkson, and gleason......that is a lot of BAD contracts.

the leafs already have over 50 million commited next year, and have 10 or 11 FA's

your cap situation is a mess, and only an idiot or a homer wouldn't realize that...........oh wait, that's right
- sensarmy_11

LOL. The Leafs are not giving Bolland 6-8 years. He won't be in Toronto next season.

I like how you hold things against the Leafs that have not happened. Bolland will get 8 years, Kadri, Gardiner are gone.

And cap room only exists if you spend it. Melnyk thus far isn't spending.

phaneuf is not worth anywhere CLOSE to what he's paid. perhaps you should look to your fellow leaf fans, who all agree with me...not you. he's a 5-5.5 mil dman at most. you also have him signed until the year 2021, which is even worse then the amount of money.

you also have lupul at 5.5 for another 4-5 years. you're probably gonna have boland at 5 mil for 6-8 years (cuz leaf management is ABSOLUTELY that stupid), gleason at 4 mil (the guy is worse than komisarek was).

your team (assuming they sign boland, which they will) has almost 22 million invested in phaneuf, lupul, boland, clarkson, and gleason......that is a lot of BAD contracts.

the leafs already have over 50 million commited next year, and have 10 or 11 FA's

your cap situation is a mess, and only an idiot or a homer wouldn't realize that...........oh wait, that's right
- sensarmy_11

Anyone who think he's worth 5-5.5 million at most is delusional. His stats are far too good. Letang gets over 7 million per himself.

Starting to get bizarre. I thought both the Leafs and Sens would make the playoffs. Not really a big fan of the Bobby Ryan trade. I just don't think teams should trade good first round picks unless they are getting another one or a prospect back.

I would be okay if the Sens traded Ryan. He is a good player but the Sens have a boatload of talent coming through their system. Mark Stone looks pretty solid on the wing with Turris.

But, Ryan has clearly said he wants to resign in Ottawa. I just don't understand the talk of his walking after next year. My assumption is he gets traded at the draft (my preference) or he resigns.
- spatso

Look who has returned. Just in time.

You don't understand the talk of him walking? The cap went down for the first time in history and the Sens weren't close to the cap. You really think Melnyk will give him a big 7 or 8 year contract.

The guarantees Kessel was leaving Toronto was odd. The Ryan talk is not.

you guys were playing mac on the 3rd line, in a shutdown role, for the last couple of years. obviously his production is going to decline. as for carlyle making him a healthy scratch........considering the way he handles his roster, and hands out icetime, i'd almost take that as a compliment to macarthur. he went from consistent top six minutes, and being a very productive player in 10/11, to playing 2nd/3rd line minutes and still fairly productive in 11/12, and then in a half season, carlyle used him almost exclusively on the 3rd line, and his production dipped a little (although over a full season, was still on pace for 17-18 goals and 40-45 pts). at this point, all things considered (production, contract, health), i'll take macarthur ANY DAY over lupul.

maybe when healthy, lupul is a better winger, but the guy is NEVER EVER EVER healthy.
- sensarmy_11

And once Macarthur took a supporting role, the team got better. When he had top 6 minutes, his production was good but the results weren't there.

well, they have to make improvments. they arent' exactly loaded with cap space (not that there's any real good UFAs anyways).......so unless they want to play next year with teh same D group, they have to make a trade. who, other than those two, can they move (that is tradeable, that they're willing to move, and who actually has value)

you obviously aren't moving kessel, jvr, rielly, phaneuf, clarkson, bozak

gleason (skill and contract) and lupul (injuries and lowered production) likely don't have that much value, certainly not enough to fix the defense.

the only other person i could see that has value is gunnarsson, but that seems like a horizontal move...trading away a good d-man to help fix your d seems dumb. i'd say the same about gardiner, but rielly sort of makes him expendable.
- sensarmy_11

Fire the coach. That's a big improvement right there. Also, that first rounder is very valuable.

And once Macarthur took a supporting role, the team got better. When he had top 6 minutes, his production was good but the results weren't there.
- RogerRoeper

you're actually putting team success on the shoulders of one forward?

i'm sure it had NOTHING to do with reimer playing well, and then bernier later.

or perhaps the development of kessel from good to elite player. or the acquisition of JVR.

it's all on the 2 minutes less per game that macarthur got.

Fire the coach. That's a big improvement right there. Also, that first rounder is very valuable.
- RogerRoeper

really?

you think packaging a pick that's likely to be in the 13-14 range, in a pretty weak draft (13th pick is projected to be kasperi kapanen). not sure that pick really helps that much in solving the MASSIVE holes on your back end.

you'd have to add that pick to another attractive roster player (like gardiner or kadri) to even begin to address teh problems you have on the blueline.

really?

you think packaging a pick that's likely to be in the 13-14 range, in a pretty weak draft (13th pick is projected to be kasperi kapanen). not sure that pick really helps that much in solving the MASSIVE holes on your back end.

you'd have to add that pick to another attractive roster player (like gardiner or kadri) to even begin to address teh problems you have on the blueline.
- sensarmy_11

Yes. A top 10-13 pick will be very valuable. You're arguing it's not? New Jersey got Schneider with the 9th pick.

you're actually putting team success on the shoulders of one forward?

i'm sure it had NOTHING to do with reimer playing well, and then bernier later.

or perhaps the development of kessel from good to elite player. or the acquisition of JVR.

it's all on the 2 minutes less per game that macarthur got.


- sensarmy_11

obviously shouldn't be putting the team's struggles on him... it's just telling of the team... if he's one of the top wingers on that team... then they don't have the wingers a team needs to get to the playoffs.

I think we can all agree that Ottawa would have been much better served holding on to Alfredsson and Gonchar as well as acquiring who they did.