Sorry, my fault for listening to Dopps say he's got plenty of $$.

I forget how delusional he can be.
- Feeling Glucky?

Haha, top shelf was trying to say that the new regional tv deal would allow the Sens to be the highest spending team in the league.



Ticket prices would be a pretty good indication of fan base size(by way of demand for tickets), so I'd say the smallest fan base in Canada is going to have a difficult time signing a broadcast deal bigger than a team like the leafs, who actually have their own station.....

Sorry, my fault for listening to Dopps say he's got plenty of $$.

I forget how delusional he can be.
- Feeling Glucky?

i think the problem is that, right now, melnyk isn't separating the team from himself, in terms of finances.

the team itself does quite well (i include the arena in that, with concerts and stuff), but melnyk's personal finances are sinking like the titanic.

travis has done some really good write-ups and research on this, but essentially what's happened is that he basically re-financed himself, through the team, to help cover some of his losses elsewhere............it's more complicated then that, but i'm not exactly a financial wizard.

the team makes money, and the new deal with TSN is ridiculous, but i think the team is paying off debts that actually had nothing to do with the team....if that makes sense.

i think the problem is that, right now, melnyk isn't separating the team from himself, in terms of finances.

the team itself does quite well (i include the arena in that, with concerts and stuff), but melnyk's personal finances are sinking like the titanic.

travis has done some really good write-ups and research on this, but essentially what's happened is that he basically re-financed himself, through the team, to help cover some of his losses elsewhere............it's more complicated then that, but i'm not exactly a financial wizard.

the team makes money, and the new deal with TSN is ridiculous, but i think the team is paying off debts that actually had nothing to do with the team....if that makes sense.
- sensarmy_11

The team very well may be making money but given the price of tickets I doubt they're really making much. Especially in comparison to others Canadian teams.

The team very well may be making money but given the price of tickets I doubt they're really making much. Especially in comparison to others Canadian teams.
- prock

they're low relative to other canadian teams, but forbes still has them ranked as the 15th highest avg ticket price in the league (140$).

i'm not suggesting that they're making money like the leafs or habs.........but melnyk's claim that the team loses 10-15 mil per season is ridiculous.

they're low relative to other canadian teams, but forbes still has them ranked as the 15th highest avg ticket price in the league (140$).

i'm not suggesting that they're making money like the leafs or habs.........but melnyk's claim that the team loses 10-15 mil per season is ridiculous.
- sensarmy_11

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the team lost money paying rent to the company that owns the stadium.

I find it so sad, every year around this time when the leafs are days away from their annual golf tournament, that some leaf fans are so desperate to find something, anything, that they think they can hold over Senator's fans heads, as to why the leafs are better than their provincial rivals.

As always, it's the same old same old, "the leafs spend more money" or the "Senators don't spend as much money" card that get's laid on the table.


The leafs spent roughly ten Million more on their payroll than the Senators, who only sit two measly points behind the leafs (today), with both teams being eliminated mathematically from playoff contention on the same day.

I find it so sad, every year around this time when the leafs are days away from their annual golf tournament, that some leaf fans are so desperate to find something, anything, that they think they can hold over Senator's fans heads, as to why the leafs are better than their provincial rivals.

As always, it's the same old same old, "the leafs spend more money" or the "Senators don't spend as much money" card that get's laid on the table.


The leafs spent roughly ten Million more on their payroll than the Senators, who only sit two measly points behind the leafs (today), with both teams being eliminated mathematically from playoff contention on the same day.
- Doppleganger

I find it sad that you think facts are sad, and need to twist what people say to make yourself feel better.

What I find sad is that the once proud Toronto Maple Leafs franchise is now becoming less relevant than the Columbus Blue Jackets in terms of success.

I find it so sad, every year around this time when the leafs are days away from their annual golf tournament, that some leaf fans are so desperate to find something, anything, that they think they can hold over Senator's fans heads, as to why the leafs are better than their provincial rivals.

As always, it's the same old same old, "the leafs spend more money" or the "Senators don't spend as much money" card that get's laid on the table.


The leafs spent roughly ten Million more on their payroll than the Senators, who only sit two measly points behind the leafs (today), with both teams being eliminated mathematically from playoff contention on the same day.
- Doppleganger

Will the Leafs win a Cup in your remaining lifetime?

What I find sad is that the once proud Toronto Maple Leafs franchise is now becoming less relevant than the Columbus Blue Jackets in terms of success.
- Pecafan Fan

Do you actually find it sad or are you delighted at this fact?

I find it sad that you think facts are sad, and need to twist what people say to make yourself feel better.
- Feeling Glucky?

For the last ten years, the Senators have been the better team, on the ice, regular season and playoffs, than the leafs.

The leafs have spent more money, charged their fans more money to do so, and you're so happy.


I concede the leafs spend/make more money.

I'll just have to make due with the Senator's being the better "on ice" team for the past ten years.

For the last ten years, the Senators have been the better team, on the ice, regular season and playoffs, than the leafs.

The leafs have spent more money, charged their fans more money to do so, and you're so happy.


I concede the leafs spend/make more money.

I'll just have to make due with the Senator's being the better "on ice" team for the past ten years.
- Doppleganger

i disagree completely

i disagree completely
- the_cause2000

Disagreeing with the facts, will not change them.

Do you actually find it sad or are you delighted at this fact?
- Cape Breton Bruins

A little bit of both.

Disagreeing with the facts, will not change them.
- Doppleganger

So why do you insist?

A little bit of both.
- Pecafan Fan

With the way people like prock go on about the leafs I am loving it.

Disagreeing with the facts, will not change them.
- Doppleganger

prove it

they're low relative to other canadian teams, but forbes still has them ranked as the 15th highest avg ticket price in the league (140$).

i'm not suggesting that they're making money like the leafs or habs.........but melnyk's claim that the team loses 10-15 mil per season is ridiculous.
- sensarmy_11

if this is the same forbes thing that said the average ticket price for the Leafs was $350 or soemthing like that, I'm pretty sure that's the resale price, for only those tickets that end up scalped, or soemthing like that. The average ticket price for the Leafs is $122 (by face value, and what the team actually receives) or something like that, and for the Sens, it was $45 or so. The next lowest was Calgary or Edmonton I think at about $65.

What I find sad is that the once proud Toronto Maple Leafs franchise is now becoming less relevant than the Columbus Blue Jackets in terms of success.
- Pecafan Fan

Right, because sneaking in at 8th spot for the second time in their entire existance does that.

Idiot.

prove it
- the_cause2000

i'm not trying to take sides here, but i don't think there's ANY debate in who the more successful team has been over the last 10 years:

sens - 416 wins, 8 playoff appearances, 7 series wins, 1 cup appearance

leafs - 368 wins, 3 playoff appearances, 1 series win

over the last 10 years, the sens have averaged about 15 more points per season than the leafs, and toronto has only finished ahead of ottawa in the standings 3 out of 10 years.

clearly, over the course of the two franchises, toronto has been more successful......but arguing that the leafs have been better over the last decade is ridiculous, it's not even close.

i'm not trying to take sides here, but i don't think there's ANY debate in who the more successful team has been over the last 10 years:

sens - 416 wins, 8 playoff appearances, 7 series wins, 1 cup appearance

leafs - 368 wins, 3 playoff appearances, 1 series win

over the last 10 years, the sens have averaged about 15 more points per season than the leafs, and toronto has only finished ahead of ottawa in the standings 3 out of 10 years.

clearly, over the course of the two franchises, toronto has been more successful......but arguing that the leafs have been better over the last decade is ridiculous, it's not even close.
- sensarmy_11

I think he was saying "prove that disagreeing with the facts won't change them"

if this is the same forbes thing that said the average ticket price for the Leafs was $350 or soemthing like that, I'm pretty sure that's the resale price, for only those tickets that end up scalped, or soemthing like that. The average ticket price for the Leafs is $122 (by face value, and what the team actually receives) or something like that, and for the Sens, it was $45 or so. The next lowest was Calgary or Edmonton I think at about $65.
- prock

i think it's the same one, didn't see where they talked about sale vs re-sale, but you could be right.........still, i doubt the actual rankings change that much. i'm pretty confident that ottawa is right in the middle of the pack in terms of ticket price. but you are right, they're probably the lowest among canadian teams.

i'm not trying to take sides here, but i don't think there's ANY debate in who the more successful team has been over the last 10 years:

sens - 416 wins, 8 playoff appearances, 7 series wins, 1 cup appearance

leafs - 368 wins, 3 playoff appearances, 1 series win

over the last 10 years, the sens have averaged about 15 more points per season than the leafs, and toronto has only finished ahead of ottawa in the standings 3 out of 10 years.

clearly, over the course of the two franchises, toronto has been more successful......but arguing that the leafs have been better over the last decade is ridiculous, it's not even close.
- sensarmy_11

Revenue and profit numbers please.

I think he was saying "prove that disagreeing with the facts won't change them"

- Morris

oh..........well nevermind then.

Right, because sneaking in at 8th spot for the second time in their entire existance does that.

Idiot.
- prock

Unfortunately, it does.

The Leafs have been irrelevant for the last 10 years when it comes to the on ice product. Wether you accept it or not, it's a fact.


Edit: or you could say the Jackets made the playoffs twice in the last 10 years, something the Leafs haven't done. But yeah, I'm the idiot here.