Not once it started. But it started because he went down.
- Feeling Glucky?

November: 13 games
9 losses

December: 14 games
8 losses

That’s 17 losses over 27 games. Was Bernier injured back then as well?

i didn't even know this thread existed until about 2 weeks ago, so i can't speak to what was said before (and i sure as poop won't go back and read 130 pages).....so i'm speaking more to the general threads on the blogs.

you don't see NEARLY as many sens fans going into the leaf blogs and starting poop as you see leaf fans going into sens blogs and starting poop.

i'm not saying it doesn't happen, but the ratio is HEAVILY tilted towards one side.

and you mentione spats and dopps, but for those 2, there are probably 30 leaf fans who are as bad, or SIGNIFICANTLY worse.
- sensarmy_11

I don't spend a lot of time on the comments for leafs or sens blogs usually.

But to play devil's advocate, there are significantly more leafs fans in the world/on hb than sens fans.

Just keep a tab on Spats or Dopps. In terms of being abrasive they're not necesarily the biggest bumholes, but in terms of being homers/haters, they're near the top of any HB list.

Ottawa's top-6 is bad... Toronto's is pretty damned good. Stats show that.
I was talking top-6, you said Ottawa scored more. That's probably where the misunderstanding started.

Ottawa may have scored more as a team because for the majority of the season, Toronto didn't get much offense from it's defensemen... since Carlyle wasn't exactly using our offensive guys in a position where they'd succeed(see- Phaneuf getting only 33% of his zone starts in the offensive zone)

But our forwards are a much better group... and Bolland, who I didn't mention earlier when talking about gpg, because of the short sample size, was putting in goals at a .33 gpg clip(tied with Ryan ). Not bad for a guy who was supposed to be our top defensive forward.... while his injury didn't exactly doom the Leafs' season, having him for more than 20 odd games would have been nice.
- Feeling Glucky?

stats show that kessel and jvr are good, and the rest are average or completely incapable of staying healthy.

both of ottawa's centers are better. kessel is the best winger, but ryan is the next best. jvr would be the third, but after that i'd take hemsky and macarthur over anything else the leafs have.

lupul is a walking bandaid, and raymond is a bottom six player who had a really good first 15 games.

so, by all means, think what you want, but if you honestly believe that

jvr - bozak - kessel
raymond - kadri - lupul

is GREAT

while:

michalek - spezza - hemsky
macarthur - turris - ryan

sucks

then you're incredibly stupid, and/or a troll. my guess is both.

I was pretty clear that the Leafs have lots of holes

But Bernier was covering them up, which is why his injury hurt the team so badly.


Keep reading only what you want to read, and making attacks on false premises.
- Feeling Glucky?

but you claimed that you have GREAT forwards, tons of young quality d-men, an elite top pairing dman, and excellent goaltending.

it doesn't sound like you think there are a lot of holes on your team.

perhaps you should stop contradicting yourself, and it might be easier to understand and read your posts.

November: 13 games
9 losses

December: 14 games
8 losses

That’s 17 losses over 27 games. Was Bernier injured back then as well?
- Pecafan Fan

No... but they were trying out JVR at center for the top line, because our centers where all gone.

No... but they were trying out JVR at center for the top line, because our centers where all gone.
- Feeling Glucky?

Ah, right... I forgot the Leafs were the only team dealing with injuries in the NHL.

My bad.

Ah, right... I forgot the Leafs were the only team dealing with injuries in the NHL.

My bad.
- Pecafan Fan

funny how the same leaf fans shot off last year about how injuries weren't an excuse...............but this year, nothing but excuses.

I don't spend a lot of time on the comments for leafs or sens blogs usually.

But to play devil's advocate, there are significantly more leafs fans in the world/on hb than sens fans.

Just keep a tab on Spats or Dopps. In terms of being abrasive they're not necesarily the biggest bumholes, but in terms of being homers/haters, they're near the top of any HB list.
- Morris

fair enough.

The Wings lost Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Howard to injuries.

They still make the playoffs.

The Wings lost Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Howard to injuries.

They still make the playoffs.
- Pecafan Fan

pretty sure tampa lost that stamkos guy.....i heard he's pretty good.

penguins led the league in man games lost to injury

minessota lost 2 starting goalies and still made it

bobrovsky, horton, and murray all missed time in columbus

November: 13 games
9 losses

December: 14 games
8 losses

That’s 17 losses over 27 games. Was Bernier injured back then as well?
- Pecafan Fan

there is a backlog of excuses ready for anything you have.
this is the "culture" Nonis and Poulin are building ..anything to ignore the real problems

there is a backlog of excuses ready for anything you have.
this is the "culture" Nonis and Poulin are building ..anything to ignore the real problems
- senstroll

I understand that losing your #1 goalie hurts.

But the thing is, just last year, James Reimer was labelled a #1 goalie and at the start of the season, glucker among many others was claiming the Leafs had the best goalie tandem in the league.

Who's to say Bernier won't suffer the same faith as Reimer next season and falter?

there is a backlog of excuses ready for anything you have.
this is the "culture" Nonis and Poulin are building ..anything to ignore the real problems
- senstroll

i wasn't a burke fan, but that was one of the things i respected about him.........at least he didnt' make excuses. if the team sucked, he came right out and said they sucked.

I understand that losing your #1 goalie hurts.

But the thing is, just last year, James Reimer was labelled a #1 goalie and at the start of the season, glucker among many others was claiming the Leafs had the best goalie tandem in the league.

Who's to say Bernier won't suffer the same faith as Reimer next season and falter?
- Pecafan Fan

he started to do it at the end of this season. his sv% was WELL under .900 for the last 15 or so games he played.

but you claimed that you have GREAT forwards, tons of young quality d-men, an elite top pairing dman, and excellent goaltending.

it doesn't sound like you think there are a lot of holes on your team.

perhaps you should stop contradicting yourself, and it might be easier to understand and read your posts.
- sensarmy_11

I said Leafs have good d-prospects. I also said Carlyle wasn't using what was on this team properly. and I think Phaneuf is a top-15 guy.

I think Rielly, Gardiner and Phaneuf are good pieces, and I think our top-6 is very good, though I wouldn't mind shedding Raymond- he's very MacArthur-ish, good on a good line.

I think what the Leafs have in terms of players and prospects is better than what Ottawa has, but we need to start playing our youth at forward, and bring in some defense-first help on the back-end, and a new coach.

he started to do it at the end of this season. his sv% was WELL under .900 for the last 15 or so games he played.
- sensarmy_11

http://www.nhl.com/ice/pl...w=log#&navid=nhl-keymatch

don't let the facts get in the way of a good piece of fiction, though.

Only 5 games under 900 in the last 15 full games he played.

Ah, right... I forgot the Leafs were the only team dealing with injuries in the NHL.

My bad.
- Pecafan Fan

Leafs aren't a deep team at center.

When the injury bug hit early, they had to sign and trade for guys to fill the void.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/pl...w=log#&navid=nhl-keymatch

don't let the facts get in the way of a good piece of fiction, though.

Only 5 games under 900 in the last 15 full games he played.
- Feeling Glucky?

okay, last 10 or 11 games then.....fact is, he started coming down to earth by the end of the year.

I said Leafs have good d-prospects. I also said Carlyle wasn't using what was on this team properly. and I think Phaneuf is a top-15 guy.

I think Rielly, Gardiner and Phaneuf are good pieces, and I think our top-6 is very good, though I wouldn't mind shedding Raymond- he's very MacArthur-ish, good on a good line.

I think what the Leafs have in terms of players and prospects is better than what Ottawa has, but we need to start playing our youth at forward, and bring in some defense-first help on the back-end, and a new coach.
- Feeling Glucky?

you said you had a "GREAT" top six not 2 posts ago.

jesus man, you really don't have a clue what point you're trying to make, or what you're really talking about do you.

i've never seen anyone contradict themselves, and go back and forth on their position as much as you do.

it's hilarious.

Leafs aren't a deep team at center.

When the injury bug hit early, they had to sign and trade for guys to fill the void.
- Feeling Glucky?

they apparantely aren't deep anywhere, because every time someones mentions them crashing down to earth, it's either injuries to your goalie, or injuries to your center, or guys like phaneuf and franson playing with nagging injuries.


it will be SO MUCH easier if you just accept facts.

say it with me.................THE LEAFS ARE NOT A GOOD HOCKEY TEAM

there, don't you feel better now

they apparantely aren't deep anywhere, because every time someones mentions them crashing down to earth, it's either injuries to your goalie, or injuries to your center, or guys like phaneuf and franson playing with nagging injuries.


it will be SO MUCH easier if you just accept facts.

say it with me.................THE LEAFS ARE NOT A GOOD HOCKEY TEAM

there, don't you feel better now
- sensarmy_11

But, end of the day, they're still in a better position than the Sens.

I can see, by the fact you're more interested in arguing semantics than adressing the facts, that you're trying to convince yourself otherwise. But it's ok to admit the truth. Don't be dopps. Don't be spasto.

Just be rational.

okay, last 10 or 11 games then.....fact is, he started coming down to earth by the end of the year.
- sensarmy_11

in his last 11 full games, including the 4 immediately following his injury, only 4 of them were under 900. 3 of them being the games after he got hurt.


Great point. Injured player doesn't play as well.

bravo.

they apparantely aren't deep anywhere, because every time someones mentions them crashing down to earth, it's either injuries to your goalie, or injuries to your center, or guys like phaneuf and franson playing with nagging injuries.


it will be SO MUCH easier if you just accept facts.

say it with me.................THE LEAFS ARE NOT A GOOD HOCKEY TEAM

there, don't you feel better now
- sensarmy_11

PS- the person bringing up nagging injuries was dopps- i just responded with the same logic...

and you won't hear me defending franson, or gunnarsson, or ranger. and while i like gardiner and rielly as prospects, they weren't exactly top-4 calibre for the majority of the season, as I posted earlier, when I mentioned that our d-corps, outside of Phaneuf, played like a bunch of 6/7 guys.

I also don't like Raymond, I think our top-6 is great(gasp), and yes, far superior to Ottawa's, in spite of him, and I'd rather see a rookie like Leivo take his spot.

I won't defend our bottom-6 outside of Kulemin and McClement this year... Bolland was a non-factor, and Clarkson, Orr, MacLaren, etc, didn't even remotely do their job.

But, I like the prospects the Leafs have at D- they're deep there, but they're not ready yet either... they'll help improve the team over the next few years.

Same with our bottom-6, we have prospects who will be stepping in there.

our most important holes are filled long term, the issue is the supporting guys, and overall maturity of the team.


The only real issue we can't fix from within from the look of things is a defensive d-man that can play on the top pairing. I think that'll be target #1 this off-season.

Bernier

Last 10 games 280/308 = .909
Last 15 games 442/483 = .915

Bernier

Last 10 games 280/308 = .909
Last 15 games 442/483 = .915
- senstroll

Saviour.