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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008
Jan 7 @ 7:48 AM ET
Tampa won a cup with Kubina being a top 2 dman

Anything is possible
- daeth

They also had a 2nd line built with first liners, unlike Ottawa's strategy of a 1st line built with 2nd liners.

Funny example though, seeing as they were built around a winger.
daeth
Colorado Avalanche
Location: 43 points, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005
Jan 7 @ 7:52 AM ET
Turns out having a lot of depth and an assortment of top end players is the key to winning a cup.

Who knew!
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009
Jan 7 @ 7:53 AM ET
Turns out having a lot of depth and an assortment of top end players is the key to winning a cup.

Who knew!
- daeth
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006
Jan 7 @ 7:56 AM ET
If we are going with one player, when was the last time a team built around possibly the weakest dman defensively won anything?
- Feeling Glucky?



I know you're not stupid.
I'm sure you've heard this many times.
Stanley cup contending teams are built with strength down the middle, starting with a good Starting goaltender and at least one good two way center.

That is how the majority of Stanley Cup winners have been built.

I know you know this to be true, and realize that the leafs don't have a NHL number one line, two way center, comparable to anyone in the above list.

The leafs are not going to be a Cup contender with a high scoring winger, who won't play a 200 foot game, as their center piece, and building the team around him.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006
Jan 7 @ 7:59 AM ET
They also had a 2nd line built with first liners, unlike Ottawa's strategy of a 1st line built with 2nd liners.

Funny example though, seeing as they were built around a winger.
- Feeling Glucky?



No they had two centers the Lightning were built around, Brad Richards and Vincent Lecavalier, ever heard of them?
daeth
Colorado Avalanche
Location: 43 points, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005
Jan 7 @ 8:03 AM ET
You have such a simplistic view on what it takes to win a cup.

The Bruins won without a typical #1 C. Detroit won the cup many times without a typical #1 goalie. Tampa won without a typical #1 dman. The list goes on and on.
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009
Jan 7 @ 8:08 AM ET
You have such a simplistic view on what it takes to win a cup.

The Bruins won without a typical #1 C. Detroit won the cup many times without a typical #1 goalie. Tampa won without a typical #1 dman. The list goes on and on.
- daeth


Dan Boyle was pretty damn good at the time, wasn't he?
daeth
Colorado Avalanche
Location: 43 points, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005
Jan 7 @ 8:12 AM ET
Dan Boyle was pretty damn good at the time, wasn't he?
- Pecafan Fan

He was like McCabe levels of good, so a whole tier below the best lol
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006
Jan 7 @ 8:13 AM ET
You have such a simplistic view on what it takes to win a cup.

The Bruins won without a typical #1 C. Detroit won the cup many times without a typical #1 goalie. Tampa won without a typical #1 dman. The list goes on and on.
- daeth



This is not my theory, I'm just repeating what I've heard numerous times on Sports Radio and TV programs over the years, from various Hockey columnists, former NHL players or coaches and commentators.

If you choose to believe the leafs are being lead to the Cup by Phil Kessel, then you're entitled to that equally simplistic view, and can continue to defend that position.
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009
Jan 7 @ 8:16 AM ET
This is not my theory, I'm just repeating what I've heard numerous times on Sports Radio and TV programs over the years, from various Hockey columnists, former NHL players or coaches and commentators.

If you choose to believe the leafs are being lead to the Cup by Phil Kessel, then you're entitled to that equally simplistic view, and can continue to defend that position.
- Doppleganger


I don't think anyone said that.
daeth
Colorado Avalanche
Location: 43 points, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005
Jan 7 @ 8:17 AM ET
Take Kane away and put Kessel in Chicago's lineup and they'd still likely win cups.

Team game. Dumb discussion.
sensarmy_11
Location: NS
Joined: 06.01.2009
Jan 7 @ 8:21 AM ET
Turns out having a lot of depth and an assortment of top end players is the key to winning a cup.

Who knew!
- daeth
sensarmy_11
Location: NS
Joined: 06.01.2009
Jan 7 @ 8:22 AM ET
Take Kane away and put Kessel in Chicago's lineup and they'd still likely win cups.
Team game. Dumb discussion.
- daeth


absolutely

kessel is a great player, he is not the issue in Toronto IMO.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tavares is sledge hockey level - Islesrbettr, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006
Jan 7 @ 8:26 AM ET

- sensarmy_11
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006
Jan 7 @ 8:26 AM ET
Take Kane away and put Kessel in Chicago's lineup and they'd still likely win cups.

Team game. Dumb discussion.
- daeth



Would Kessel play with Toews, the great two way Center that won the Cup twice in the past four years, and an Olympic gold medal and was probably Canadas' best two way player?
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tavares is sledge hockey level - Islesrbettr, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006
Jan 7 @ 8:26 AM ET
Hope_Smoke ‏@Hope_Smoke now
Interesting morning. Kypreos mentioned how Carlyle quit on the team and not the players quitting on him. Said Carlyle didn't believe in team
daeth
Colorado Avalanche
Location: 43 points, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005
Jan 7 @ 8:26 AM ET
absolutely

kessel is a great player, he is not the issue in Toronto IMO.
- sensarmy_11

Where's our Toews?
Where's our Keith?
Where's our Seabrook?
Where's our Hossa?
Where's our Sharp?

You can win with Kessel for sure, you just need to fill out the rest of the team. I wish replacing Kessel was all that needed to be done. That'd be a lot easier.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tavares is sledge hockey level - Islesrbettr, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006
Jan 7 @ 8:27 AM ET
Would Kessel play with Toews, the great two way Center that won the Cup twice in the past four years, and an Olympic gold medal and was probably Canadas' best two way player?
- Doppleganger



does it matter?? HAving Toews, Keith seabrook, Hossa, Sharpe...... helps a lot.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006
Jan 7 @ 8:28 AM ET
Where's our Toews?
Where's our Keith?
Where's our Seabrook?
Where's our Hossa?
Where's our Sharp?

You can win with Kessel for sure, you just need to fill out the rest of the team. I wish replacing Kessel was all that needed to be done. That'd be a lot easier.
- daeth


You forgot one.

Where's the Cap space?
daeth
Colorado Avalanche
Location: 43 points, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005
Jan 7 @ 8:31 AM ET
You forgot one.

Where's the Cap space?
- Doppleganger

Keith and Hossa are on cap cheating contracts. That's largely why they've been able to keep such an elite roster.

Smart cap management is key to winning though, it really is.

edit: at least if you want to continue being a contender anyway
sensarmy_11
Location: NS
Joined: 06.01.2009
Jan 7 @ 8:32 AM ET
Where's our Toews? BOZAK
Where's our Keith? PHANEUF
Where's our Seabrook? REILLY
Where's our Hossa? JVR
Where's our Sharp? KADRI

You can win with Kessel for sure, you just need to fill out the rest of the team. I wish replacing Kessel was all that needed to be done. That'd be a lot easier.
- daeth



that's about as close in terms of comparables as you're going to get. the problem isn't kessel, it's like you said, the supporting cast is nowhere near good enough.
sensarmy_11
Location: NS
Joined: 06.01.2009
Jan 7 @ 8:33 AM ET
Keith and Hossa are on cap cheating contracts. That's largely why they've been able to keep such an elite roster.

Smart cap management is key to winning though, it really is.

edit: at least if you want to continue being a contender anyway
- daeth


chicago is going to have a cap disaster once those new kane and toews deals kick in.
daeth
Colorado Avalanche
Location: 43 points, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005
Jan 7 @ 8:35 AM ET
chicago is going to have a cap disaster once those new kane and toews deals kick in.
- sensarmy_11

It really seems like it. For the first time they actually have guys getting paid market value. If anyone can do it they can though. Chicago has been great at cutting guys loose right before their big payday without dropping off. Byfuglien, Versteeg, Bolland, etc.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tavares is sledge hockey level - Islesrbettr, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006
Jan 7 @ 8:51 AM ET
You forgot one.

Where's the Cap space?
- Doppleganger



Chi has no cap space and it's about to get much much worse..... They just gave away a good dman for nothing because they couldn't fit him into their cap.
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009
Jan 7 @ 8:55 AM ET
Chi has no cap space and it's about to get much much worse..... They just gave away a good dman for nothing because they couldn't fit him into their cap.
- burn


The way they are playing, they could probably win the Cup this season.

3 Cups in like 5 years is worth a little cap struggles for the next few seasons imho.
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