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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008
Feb 16 @ 3:51 PM ET
Considering the Leafs are on the path of a complete rebuild, I think we can close this thread.
- Pecafan Fan

Yes.

The team with the clear direction is in a better situation.
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009
Feb 16 @ 3:52 PM ET
Yes.

The team with the clear direction is in a better situation.


- Feeling Glucky?


It's not a direction if you start the team from scratch. Nor is it a guarantee of success.

Ask the Oilers.
golfingsince
Location: This message is Marwood approved!
Joined: 11.30.2011
Feb 16 @ 3:55 PM ET
Yes.

The team with the clear direction is in a better situation.


- Feeling Glucky?


Yeah, except the clear direction is down.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008
Feb 16 @ 3:56 PM ET
It's not a direction if you start the team from scratch. Nor is it a guarantee of success.

Ask the Oilers.
- Pecafan Fan

What do you call driving away your best players and getting zilch in return?


That's how Ottawa started their rebuild... and then they traded for Ryan.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008
Feb 16 @ 3:56 PM ET
Yeah, except the clear direction is down.
- golfingsince

Luckily, they don't have far to go.


edit: It's funny how building through the draft is something all teams should do until the Leafs try it out.
golfingsince
Location: This message is Marwood approved!
Joined: 11.30.2011
Feb 16 @ 3:59 PM ET
Luckily, they don't have far to go.


edit: It's funny how building through the draft is something all teams should do until the Leafs try it out.
- Feeling Glucky?


You guys just need to acquire a 2nd rounder and then I'll have a trade proposal for ya.
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009
Feb 16 @ 4:00 PM ET
Luckily, they don't have far to go.


edit: It's funny how building through the draft is something all teams should do until the Leafs try it out.
- Feeling Glucky?


Fact is, it's what the Sens are doing. And I think they are a few years ahead of the Leafs in that regard.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006
Feb 16 @ 4:05 PM ET
Luckily, they don't have far to go.


edit: It's funny how building through the draft is something all teams should do until the Leafs try it out.
- Feeling Glucky?




We just don't believe the market will stand for a painful blow it up, and then a re-build through the draft like the Oilers are still in ( 5 or 6 years now?) the middle of.

It will be too tempting to "jump-start" the re-build like Burke did when he traded away the future, for a one dimensional winger that was deemed dump-able by his former team...........that went on to win a Stanley Cup.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006
Feb 16 @ 4:08 PM ET
Fact is, it's what the Sens are doing. And I think they are a few years ahead of the Leafs in that regard.
- Pecafan Fan



At least 16 of the players Ottawa will ice tonight, were drafted by the the Senators, and there are three others who would be in the line up, but are injured.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008
Feb 16 @ 4:08 PM ET
Fact is, it's what the Sens are doing. And I think they are a few years ahead of the Leafs in that regard.
- Pecafan Fan

How so?

They gave up 2 1sts and a 2nd for Ryan.

Their top prospect projects to be a good shutdown center.

Their top young player, Zibanejad, is similar to Kadri, who is only a few years older.

Cowen is a bust, Karlsson can't play defense, though Ceci looks like he'll be decent.



They haven't exactly hit a home run drafting either, and they've already traded away their top assets without getting much back. Leafs at least still have players they can move to get more picks/prospects... and they're likely to finish lower.

If Ottawa is on their upswing, then they've missed their chance at getting a franchise defining player, and instead went with quick fixes in Turris and Ryan... AKA the poor team's version of Kessel and Bozak.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008
Feb 16 @ 4:09 PM ET
At least 16 of the players Ottawa will ice tonight, were drafted by the the Senators, and there are three others who would be in the line up, but are injured.
- Doppleganger

Yes. quite the collection to be proud of.
golfingsince
Location: This message is Marwood approved!
Joined: 11.30.2011
Feb 16 @ 4:13 PM ET
Yes. quite the collection to be proud of.
- Feeling Glucky?


Well they are ahead of your "established stars "
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009
Feb 16 @ 4:15 PM ET
Yes. quite the collection to be proud of.
- Feeling Glucky?


Condra, Greening, Hoffman, Lazar, Neil, Pageau, Zibanejad, Smith, Stone, Borowiecki, Ceci, Cowen, Gryba, Karlsson, Phillips, Wiercioch, Lehner were all drafted by the Senators.

The forwards aren't that bad (only 8 less goals than the Leafs with 3 games in hand)

A lot of those guys (especially on defence) still have years of development ahead of them. And defence is what is killing them right now. They lack experience. A lot.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008
Feb 16 @ 4:15 PM ET
Well they are ahead of your "established stars "
- golfingsince

Hence the rebuild.


Is Ottawa going to rebuild the rebuild?
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008
Feb 16 @ 4:18 PM ET
Condra, Greening, Hoffman, Lazar, Neil, Pageau, Zibanejad, Smith, Stone, Borowiecki, Ceci, Cowen, Gryba, Karlsson, Phillips, Wiercioch, Lehner were all drafted by the Senators.

The forwards aren't that bad (only 8 less goals than the Leafs with 3 games in hand)

A lot of those guys (especially on defence) still have years of development ahead of them. And defence is what is killing them right now. They lack experience. A lot.
- Pecafan Fan

I honestly don't care who drafted the players on the team, if the players and the team are crap


Do you see a single franchise player in that list?

Only one close is Karlsson, and he's more suited to the wing than defense.

When I was saying the Leafs needed more experience because they were one of the youngest teams in the league, you treated it as a joke, and now it applies to the Sens?
golfingsince
Location: This message is Marwood approved!
Joined: 11.30.2011
Feb 16 @ 4:18 PM ET
Hence the rebuild.


Is Ottawa going to rebuild the rebuild?
- Feeling Glucky?


No, they're going to enhance it.

The Leafs are the team that is rebuilding a rebuild without having qualified for the playoffs once during a full season.

Is is really that difficult for you to see there level of suckitude?
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009
Feb 16 @ 4:22 PM ET
No, they're going to enhance it.

The Leafs are the team that is rebuilding a rebuild without having qualified for the playoffs once during a full season.

Is is really that difficult for you to see there level of suckitude?
- golfingsince


Now, one of the Sens problem is that Bobby Ryan isn't exactly a franchise cornerstone.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008
Feb 16 @ 4:26 PM ET
No, they're going to enhance it.

The Leafs are the team that is rebuilding a rebuild without having qualified for the playoffs once during a full season.

Is is really that difficult for you to see there level of suckitude?
- golfingsince

How? By trading more young players for Bobby Ryan and Kyle Turrises, all the while getting rid of any player that asks for money, and getting nothing back?

God I hope so.
golfingsince
Location: This message is Marwood approved!
Joined: 11.30.2011
Feb 16 @ 4:29 PM ET
Now, one of the Sens problem is that Bobby Ryan isn't exactly a franchise cornerstone.
- Pecafan Fan


I agree with that, but I don't think either team has one really. Karlsson maybe for the Sens and possibly Rielly in the future for the leafs
golfingsince
Location: This message is Marwood approved!
Joined: 11.30.2011
Feb 16 @ 4:32 PM ET
How? By trading more young players for Bobby Ryan and Kyle Turrises, all the while getting rid of any player that asks for money, and getting nothing back?

God I hope so.
- Feeling Glucky?


It's not like they gave up Seguin and Hamilton for Ryan or Turris.

Having money to spend is cool, as long as you don't throw it at every Clarkson that crosses your path.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006
Feb 16 @ 4:33 PM ET
How? By trading more young players for Bobby Ryan and Kyle Turrises, all the while getting rid of any player that asks for money, and getting nothing back?

God I hope so.
- Feeling Glucky?



Yeah, Bobby Ryan was asking for money, and so was Mark Methot..........oh wait!!
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006
Feb 16 @ 4:36 PM ET
It's not like they gave up Seguin and Hamilton for Ryan or Turris.

Having money to spend is cool, as long as you don't throw it at every Clarkson that crosses your path.
- golfingsince



And the GM who brought in Clarkson and gave him an un-tradeable, un- buyoutable and un-moveable contact is now, it seems, in charge of the re-build.


But it's okay, this time it's going to work.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007
Feb 16 @ 4:51 PM ET
It's not like they gave up Seguin and Hamilton for Ryan or Turris.

Having money to spend is cool, as long as you don't throw it at every Clarkson that crosses your path.
- golfingsince


Tarasenko is no slouch.
golfingsince
Location: This message is Marwood approved!
Joined: 11.30.2011
Feb 16 @ 5:02 PM ET
Tarasenko is no slouch.
- prock


No he isn't but I think you missed the point.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008
Feb 16 @ 5:37 PM ET
How so?

They gave up 2 1sts and a 2nd for Ryan.

Their top prospect projects to be a good shutdown center.

Their top young player, Zibanejad, is similar to Kadri, who is only a few years older.

Cowen is a bust, Karlsson can't play defense, though Ceci looks like he'll be decent.



They haven't exactly hit a home run drafting either, and they've already traded away their top assets without getting much back. Leafs at least still have players they can move to get more picks/prospects... and they're likely to finish lower.

If Ottawa is on their upswing, then they've missed their chance at getting a franchise defining player, and instead went with quick fixes in Turris and Ryan... AKA the poor team's version of Kessel and Bozak.
- Feeling Glucky?
There is soo much fail here
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