Top two shut down defenders are Methot and JC ,Toronto,s are Phaneuf and Gunnerson ,Toronto,s two pmd are Franson and Gardener,where as Ottawa has EK and Weircoch.Three of ottawa top 4 are in their rolls for sure.With weircoch slotting in the 4 pmd roll.So is ottawa not more established in their pairings than Toronto is at this time with Franson still being unsigned and reilly not being ready??
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You know... without Gonchar... Ottawa's d doesn't look that great.

Toronto's isn't insane either...

But I think Toronto's forward group is more superior to Ottawa's than Ottawa's D is to Toronto's
- Feeling Glucky?

This is about right ,ottawa has three established in their roles with Methot JC and EK .Wiercoch looks decent in preseason,but is far from proven .The forwards are a mixed bag ,there is a lot of depth with some nice young pieces on the rise.But its a work in progress,the strength of the team up front looks to be down the middle of the ice.But its far from certain

This is about right ,ottawa has three established in their roles with Methot JC and EK .Wiercoch looks decent in preseason,but is far from proven .The forwards are a mixed bag ,there is a lot of depth with some nice young pieces on the rise.But its a work in progress,the strength of the team up front looks to be down the middle of the ice.But its far from certain

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As does the Leafs, who BTW have more games under their belt but they aren't as established.

As does the Leafs, who BTW have more games under their belt but they aren't as established.
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Iam done going around in circles ,Our two shut down guys are JC and Methot ,Ill take them any day in their ROLE anyday over anything Toronto has to offer in the same role

Iam done going around in circles ,Our two shut down guys are JC and Methot ,Ill take them any day in their ROLE anyday over anything Toronto has to offer in the same role
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Dion is a good defenseman in his zone??,Gunnerson is decent but the physical play of JC is hard to ignore.So yes i would rather have Methot and JC in DEFENSE FIRST ROLE

Dion is a good defenseman in his zone??,Gunnerson is decent but the physical play of JC is hard to ignore.So yes i would rather have Methot and JC in DEFENSE FIRST ROLE
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Dion and Gunner played far better quality comp and did a very good job..... and they bother score more than those guys..... I'm fine with it.

Dion and Gunner played far better quality comp and did a very good job..... and they bother score more than those guys..... I'm fine with it.
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Again in a shut down role i like ottawa,s ,better.You seem to forget EK can outscore both combined

Again in a shut down role i like ottawa,s ,better.You seem to forget EK can outscore both combined

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So you keep changing everything all the time when it goes against you?? You're special. Just about everything have flown right over your head this morning.


You just said that 'in a defensive role" and I just pointed out that Gunner and Dion played better opposition. im fine with what we got.

So you keep changing everything all the time when it goes against you?? You're special. Just about everything have flown right over your head this morning.


You just said that 'in a defensive role" and I just pointed out that Gunner and Dion played better opposition. im fine with what we got.
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Methot didnt play aginst top lines ???Cowen also did the same in his rookie year,Also i havent changed my opinion in any fashion ,you choose to pick a fight over a precieved slight of the mighty maple leafs

Methot didnt play aginst top lines ???Cowen also did the same in his rookie year

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Dion played against the highest quality comp other than Chara...... So yeah point stands.

Dion played against the highest quality comp other than Chara...... So yeah point stands.
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And Methot wasnt on ottawa,s top pairing last season ??not my fault if we have some other defenders that can run with the ball also

And Methot wasnt on ottawa,s top pairing last season ??not my fault if we have some other defenders that can run with the ball also

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the point is still flying way over your head, and it's now afternoon..


He didn't face the same type of quality of competition.

And Methot wasnt on ottawa,s top pairing last season ??not my fault if we have some other defenders that can run with the ball also

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I don't even know what you're trying to get at with this??

Yes ,Anderson is great but some of those stats are there because of ottawa,s very solid depth at defense.This where we should have a gap on Toronto,they were carried by their offense ,we where carried by our defense

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Have either of the toronto goaltenders been invited to their respective country's Olympic training camps?

I don't even know what you're trying to get at with this??
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Then you get it then ,Ottawa,s top 4 is more established in its roles than Toronto,s.Cowen played top4 mins a rookie shutdown defender on a playoff team,did any of the leafs defense do this?? .Next Methot played top pairing shutdown mins last season on a playoff team in his first season as a sen,did phaneuf or gunnerson do this in their first season as a leaf top 4 blueliner???

Then you get it then ,Ottawa,s top 4 is more established in its roles than Toronto,s.Cowen played top4 mins a rookie shutdown defender on a playoff team,did any of the leafs defense do this?? .Next Methot played top pairing shutdown mins last season on a playoff team in his first season as a sen,did phaneuf or gunnerson do this in their first season as a leaf top 4 blueliner???
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jesus (frank)ing christ!!!

Just wow!

jesus (frank)ing christ!!!

Just wow!
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Instead of being surprised answer the question ??

Instead of being surprised answer the question ??
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You haven't answered mine from early this morning...

You haven't answered mine from early this morning...
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You came back with how many games the leafs defense had played in the nhl .I asked you time and time again ,how much of the leaf top 4 was established in their roles on the team ??

You come at me with Franson,s 200+ game a a defender on toronto and Gardeners 87 games Vrs cowen,s 90 games .I kept telling you Cowen has always played in the role of top 4 shutdown defender,you kept coming back and laughing at why i said established because of cowen,s lack of experience.

But Cowen ,has already established himself as a top 4 defender to our coach when he played there as a rookie in his first season and helped ottawa get into the playoffs

You came back with how many games the leafs defense had played in the nhl .I asked you time and time again ,how much of the leaf top 4 was established in their roles on the team ??

You come at me with Franson,s 200+ game a a defender on toronto and Gardeners 87 games Vrs cowen,s 90 games .I kept telling you Cowen has always played in the role of top 4 shutdown defender,you kept coming back and laughing at why i said established because of cowen,s lack of experience.

But Cowen ,has already established himself as a top 4 defender to our coach when he played there as a rookie in his first season and helped ottawa get into the playoffs

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And Gardiner did the same in his rookie year. Missing the point still for the last 8 hours??

FYI Cowen 1691mins total in the NHL in 89 games = 19min/game.

GArdiner 1863 in 87 games nhl games = 21.43mins/game.

Gardiner has played more MINS and his mins/game is higher but he's less established.

And Gardiner did the same in his rookie year. Missing the point still for the last 8 hours??

FYI Cowen 1691mins total in the NHL in 89 games = 19min/game.

GArdiner 1863 in 87 games nhl games = 21.43mins/game.

Gardiner has played more MINS and his mins/game is higher but he's less established.


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No iam not, is cowen not a top 4 defender ???Gardener has not played in the top 4 for a 82 game sched.Cowen has and would have once again if he had not been hurt .Franson hasnt done it either, so again who is more established a defenseman in a top 4 role .

No iam not is cowen not a top 4 defender ???Gardener has not played in the top 4 for a 82 game sched.Cowen has and would have once again if he had not been hurt .Franson hasnt done it either, so again who is more established a defenseman in a top 4 role .
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How do you not grasp this.

GArdiner has played more mins. He played more mis/game. He's played in the top 4.


But he's not as established as the guy with less mins played??



You are certifiable.

How do you not grasp this.

GArdiner has played more mins. He played more mis/game. He's played in the top 4.


But he's not as established as the guy with less mins played??



You are certifiable.
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Did either do it for an 82 game sched ??? NO!!! Cowen did in his rookie season and looked quite good at doing it without him we dont make the playoffs.Just because he got hurt doesnt change the fact that he had already proven he was a top 4 defender and would have likely improved upon a very sucessful rookie season.Just as Toronto is hoping with both their young pmd,s in Gardener and Franson

Did either do it for an 82 game sched ??? NO!!! Cowen did in his rookie season and looked quite good at doing it without him we dont make the playoffs.Just because he got hurt doesnt change the fact that he had already proven he was a top 4 defender and would have likely improved upon a very sucessful rookie season.Just as Toronto is hoping with both their young pmd,s in Gardener and Franson

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GArdiner played 74 games in his rookie year avg 21:45/game, so yeah that's wrong.