Big deal the Leafs won the $/point competition.

This borders on the bizarre as an argument for a Leaf team. Does anybody have any idea what this means?

Next year the Sens will likely add four rookies into their line up and displace some of the departing veterans.

Teams operate in cycles, that is just the way it is. Leaf fans are excited because they are seeing something for a first time that they have not seen for a very long time. Other teams have experienced the rebuild cycle as part of their long term existence.

But, many teams have had spectacular short term rebuild results leading to very high expectations going forward (e.g. Chicago, Pittsburgh).

Yet we also need to note that some teams despite great draft picks and spectacular rookie play have never been able to translate it into playoff success. We have seen very good teams (e.g. Columbus) have short term success only to fall back the following season and miss the playoffs. Columbus is the youngest team in the NHL, they have some great young players. Yet despite some reasonable success they continue to stall out and miss on even numbered years.

Do the Leafs blow a tire next season. Perhaps.
- spatso

This is why I say the Leafs have a better shot at a cup in the next decade than the sens.

Ottawa filling its ranks with scrubs to save money after blowing their load on this run. Things might be different if they could generate more money, but their fanbase can't even sell out a playoff game. Quite possibly one of their last playoff games for the next half-decade.

Big deal the Leafs won the $/point competition.

This borders on the bizarre as an argument for a Leaf team. Does anybody have any idea what this means?

Next year the Sens will likely add four rookies into their line up and displace some of the departing veterans.

Teams operate in cycles, that is just the way it is. Leaf fans are excited because they are seeing something for a first time that they have not seen for a very long time. Other teams have experienced the rebuild cycle as part of their long term existence.

But, many teams have had spectacular short term rebuild results leading to very high expectations going forward (e.g. Chicago, Pittsburgh).

Yet we also need to note that some teams despite great draft picks and spectacular rookie play have never been able to translate it into playoff success. We have seen very good teams (e.g. Columbus) have short term success only to fall back the following season and miss the playoffs. Columbus is the youngest team in the NHL, they have some great young players. Yet despite some reasonable success they continue to stall out and miss on even numbered years.

Do the Leafs blow a tire next season. Perhaps.
- spatso

It feels like you watch hockey but really have no idea what goes on.

It is actually a good point of discussion. The Leafs are trying to be competitive. The Senators have clearly taken the approach of wanting to follow the more traditional route of rebuilding in hopes of acquiring elite talent.

Think of the rebuilding as being something like an iceberg, 10/11 of the mass is under water. The Senators have elite talent at all levels of their development system, they will likely add some very strong assets during the coming year. Teams that know what they are doing tend to rebuild in a dramatic way. We can see how Edmonton finished at the bottom last year and the difference at the start of this year. We can see the Islanders starting to come on and we already know about LA, Chicago and Vancouver. Even the Bruins and Flyers followed this route a few years ago These are all teams that took advantage of the draft to build superbly talented young teams. All of them also made some very effective trades but they had the assets acquired in the draft to allow them to do the deals.

If you remember this time last year as well as the year before I was cautioning Leaf fans about their dumping on the Oilers. Many of you were saying that the Oilers would never finish ahead of the Leafs. Well I fear that time has now arrived. You notice how Leaf fans seem to be avoiding talking about the Oilers this year.

In fact, what will probably happen is that Leaf fans will start to become more and more aware of the young Senator talent and they will make the same kind of shift as they did against the Oilers. They will probably find it more easy to make their comparisons against Montreal when the Canadiens begin their rebuild.

Nobody really thinks of the Leafs as a serious contender. This will become more apparant as they play against stronger teams and their overall weakness in the middle becomes clear to everyone. I think they will have a good season and finish 10th. It has been my prediction since the early summer. But, they will still have not made any progress towards becoming a serious contender. It is in that context that I believe that the Senators will improve significantly while the Leafs remain essentially a mediocre team. Regardless of where the Oilers finish in the standings you know they are a better team than the Leafs. They will play as serious Stanley Cup contenders in the near future, the Senators are following the same roadmap. The Leafs do not have a roadmap that would enable them to become an elite team.
- spatso

^^

You need to keep this in perspective that this debate has its origins in the Kessel trade. So it goes back a few years ago. I upset Leaf fans when I took a strong position that the Leafs were making a terrible mistake, I wanted them to build through the draft like the Oilers were doing and like a bunch of other teams did before them (LA, Chicago, Vancouver, Philadelphia, etc. etc.). So for about two years I kept saying that Edmonton was doing it right and my Leaf comrades kept saying that the Oilers would spend years rebuilding (like Columbus, Florida). And this year they have stopped talking about the Oil because they are beginning to see what is emerging. Leaf fans are great hockey fans and they know their stuff. So, they can see the future of some of these elite kids.

They have now focused their comparisons onto the Senators, They do not want to believe the Senators are following the Oiler blueprint (starting with the defense). I think what I say may upset them primarily because they see the essential kernel of truth that I have offered.
- spatso

Spatso has done a 180.

Guy Boucher, an Intense Coach, Molds the Ottawa Senators’ Spirit


“What I like about our players is that we’ve worked on reloading mentally and emotionally from great moments and bad moments all year long,” Boucher said. “And what I like is that it did translate to the playoffs, which is why we are still here. That’s what you need in the playoffs.”.......................read more at https://www.nytimes.com/2...ncollection%2Fhockey&_r=1

i'm rooting (cheering) for the Sens but how come there are so many empty seats for a playoff game in Ottawa?
- Crimsoninja

Location Location Location .......... just one of the reasons.

Biggest one for most people is the idiotically designed parking lot(s), which places traffic (entering and exiting) between the Arena and the parking lot(s) forcing pedestrians and traffic to cross paths before and after games ......... causing traffic and pedestrian Jams before and after games.

Location Location Location .......... just one of the reasons.

Biggest one for most people is the idiotically designed parking lot(s), which places traffic (entering and exiting) between the Arena and the parking lot(s) forcing pedestrians and traffic to cross paths before and after games ......... causing traffic and pedestrian Jams before and after games.



- D0PPELGANGER

I dont remember it being like that in other playoff years.
also they have actually tried to improve the parking lot situation..but the parking has always been like that, are you saying fans have just picked now to protest?

I dont buy these excuses..there has to be something else in play here

Spatso has done a 180.
- senstroll

Not even close. Strong supporter of the Shanaplan. Have been since long before Shanahan was hired.

Pure hokum to suggest that the rookies to be added by the Sens next year are anything less than blue chip prospects. In the case of Chabot and White, they were the two best players at the world juniors last year.

My point is that very few teams grow in a direct line. Next year the Leaf players will see much tougher game day preparation. Not unusual to see good young teams face a much tougher lift the second year. Not being critical of Leafs, they had a very good year. Just saying next year could be tougher.

Not even close. Strong supporter of the Shanaplan. Have been since long before Shanahan was hired.

Pure hokum to suggest that the rookies to be added by the Sens next year are anything less than blue chip prospects. In the case of Chabot and White, they were the two best players at the world juniors last year.

My point is that very few teams grow in a direct line. Next year the Leaf players will see much tougher game day preparation. Not unusual to see good young teams face a much tougher lift the second year. Not being critical of Leafs, they had a very good year. Just saying next year could be tougher.
- spatso

Ill give you Chabot...big upside..but dont count on that for a couple years.

I would expect a couple mid round 1sts who were drafted in 2015 to be good at the WJC, the blue chip prospects were playing in the NHL though.

you crap on the leafs as much as you "support the shanaplan".. I have no doubt it terrifies you that the Leafs could leapfrog the Sens and not look back. I have no doubt thats what will happen.

Location Location Location .......... just one of the reasons.

Biggest one for most people is the idiotically designed parking lot(s), which places traffic (entering and exiting) between the Arena and the parking lot(s) forcing pedestrians and traffic to cross paths before and after games ......... causing traffic and pedestrian Jams before and after games.



- D0PPELGANGER

Ridiculous, pathetic arguement

Location Location Location .......... just one of the reasons.

Biggest one for most people is the idiotically designed parking lot(s), which places traffic (entering and exiting) between the Arena and the parking lot(s) forcing pedestrians and traffic to cross paths before and after games ......... causing traffic and pedestrian Jams before and after games.



- D0PPELGANGER

Ridiculous, pathetic arguement

Location Location Location .......... just one of the reasons.

Biggest one for most people is the idiotically designed parking lot(s), which places traffic (entering and exiting) between the Arena and the parking lot(s) forcing pedestrians and traffic to cross paths before and after games ......... causing traffic and pedestrian Jams before and after games.



- D0PPELGANGER

Ridiculous, pathetic arguement

- D0PPELGANGER

Hey remember that time that the Senators didn't win the cup ever?

Stop being so focused on the past, just because your team has no future. We know you're insecure. You don't have to keep telling us.

Ill give you Chabot...big upside..but dont count on that for a couple years.

I would expect a couple mid round 1sts who were drafted in 2015 to be good at the WJC, the blue chip prospects were playing in the NHL though.

you crap on the leafs as much as you "support the shanaplan".. I have no doubt it terrifies you that the Leafs could leapfrog the Sens and not look back. I have no doubt thats what will happen.
- senstroll

They are enjoying it now ...

But we know from past experience that they don't even have the balls to show up when it all goes south.

Ridiculous, pathetic arguement
- Aetherial

Pedestrians and traffic cross paths!

WHAT OTHER CITY HAS TO DEAL WITH ISSUES LIKE THESE!!?!???!?!??!?!

I think you're the same person
- twiztedmike

You're just upset about how mean I was to you in that other place.

You're just upset about how mean I was to you in that other place.
- golfingsince

If anyone is used to people being mean to them it's him so I doubt it.

If anyone is used to people being mean to them it's him so I doubt it.
- daeth

If anyone is used to people being mean to them it's him so I doubt it.
- daeth

I think he likes it.

1967

I dont remember it being like that in other playoff years.
also they have actually tried to improve the parking lot situation..but the parking has always been like that, are you saying fans have just picked now to protest?

I dont buy these excuses..there has to be something else in play here
- senstroll

No one is protesting???


If you've been paying attentions, there are a number of reasons that have contributed to the attendance problems this year.

-Location
-Parking lot
-Public Service pay system problems
-Redblacks competition for entertainment dollars
-Higher costs for second round
-people anticipating new Arena in 4 or 5 years

leaf fans seem to think it's a fair comparison, Ottawa/Gatineau Population 1.2 Million versus the GTA Population 6.5 Million ..........

Ottawa is a small market NHL City ...... While toronto is one the leagues largest markets ......... apples vs watermellons

Ill give you Chabot...big upside..but dont count on that for a couple years.

I would expect a couple mid round 1sts who were drafted in 2015 to be good at the WJC, the blue chip prospects were playing in the NHL though.

you crap on the leafs as much as you "support the shanaplan".. I have no doubt it terrifies you that the Leafs could leapfrog the Sens and not look back. I have no doubt thats what will happen.
- senstroll

Those of us that support the Sens believe we have the best player in the NHL playing #1 on our blue line. If you have the best player in the league playing for your team, you will continue to contend.

No one is protesting???


If you've been paying attentions, there are a number of reasons that have contributed to the attendance problems this year.

-Location
-Parking lot
-Public Service pay system problems
-Redblacks competition for entertainment dollars
-Higher costs for second round
-people anticipating new Arena in 4 or 5 years

leaf fans seem to think it's a fair comparison, Ottawa/Gatineau Population 1.2 Million versus the GTA Population 6.5 Million ..........

Ottawa is a small market NHL City ...... While toronto is one the leagues largest markets ......... apples vs watermellons
- D0PPELGANGER

Pedestrians and traffic cross paths!

WHAT OTHER CITY HAS TO DEAL WITH ISSUES LIKE THESE!!?!???!?!??!?!
- Feeling Glucky?

Have you ever been to a game in the CTC?

Didn't think so.



Take a look at the site plan, and compare it to other remotely located arenas.

The CTC is separated from it's parking lots, by the access roads to the parking lots, the access roads should be on the periphery of the parking lots, not between the CTC and the parking lots.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@33.5318761,-112.2604565,470m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en


https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.2974136,-75.9254228,572m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en


https://www.google.ca/maps/@39.9013108,-75.1718908,500m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en


https://www.google.ca/maps/search/BB%26T+Center+2555+NW+136th+Ave+/@26.1581966,-80.3253482,338m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en