Serious question, when did you bail on the leafs?
- burn

94-95

I understand it is hard to be Leaf fan living in Eastern Ontario. No doubt you have experienced some of the animosity. You probably wonder why Sens fans respond so well to the Canadiens but are so hostile to the Leafs. After a bunch of years I just got tired of all the Leaf lies and hype.
- spatso

I imagine all the hostility towards leaf fans from sens fans stems from jealousy

I imagine all the hostility towards leaf fans from sens fans stems from jealousy
- burn

This was the subject of a pretty spot-on article last year.

This was the subject of a pretty spot-on article last year.
- Aetherial

But spatso would have you beleive leaf fans jealous of sens....... Not sure how or why, but there you go.

Leaf fans jealous of all the sens championships?

Nope, they have zero

Leaf fans jealous of all the sens money?

Nope, sens franchise clips coupons while leafs are most valuable franchise

Leaf fans jealous of all the sens talent?

Nope, leaf are envy of the league with all their youth while sens stuck with boat anchor contracts like phanuef and Ryan

Unfortunately as much as we, as a society, strive for inclusion and acceptance, there is still a stigma there. People are treated like freaks, like a aberrations of nature. They are different in a way that most people find appalling, or sickening. Being gay is probably also difficult.
- Aetherial

But spatso would have you beleive leaf fans jealous of sens....... Not sure how or why, but there you go.

Leaf fans jealous of all the sens championships?

Nope, they have zero

Leaf fans jealous of all the sens money?

Nope, sens franchise clips coupons while leafs are most valuable franchise

Leaf fans jealous of all the sens talent?

Nope, leaf are envy of the league with all their youth while sens stuck with boat anchor contracts like phanuef and Ryan






- burn

There's a huge distinction between jealousy and dislike that Spatsoid seems to miss. And, a huge distinction between Karlsson and Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Kadri, JVR, Brown, Rielly, Zaits and Gardiner...then Kap, Sosh, Liljegren and a few others.....

Toronto is obviously in the better situation. It's amazing that those two idiots can argue against that point for almost 1000 pages.

Always hated Ottawa Senators but never because of jealousy, more because of their fans and poopty players especially Alfie and his eczema....that guy always looked like the stupid little kid that kept licking his lips in the winter and chap his own face from nose to chin.

I like Karlsson...a lot. Probably the only player on Ottawa that I have liked....ever.

Shiite city, shiite fans....just shiite. The End.

There's a huge distinction between jealousy and dislike that Spatsoid seems to miss. And, a huge distinction between Karlsson and Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Kadri, JVR, Brown, Rielly, Zaits and Gardiner...then Kap, Sosh, Liljegren and a few others.....

Toronto is obviously in the better situation. It's amazing that those two idiots can argue against that point for almost 1000 pages.

Always hated Ottawa Senators but never because of jealousy, more because of their fans and poopty players especially Alfie and his eczema....that guy always looked like the stupid little kid that kept licking his lips in the winter and chap his own face from nose to chin.

I like Karlsson...a lot. Probably the only player on Ottawa that I have liked....ever.

Shiite city, shiite fans....just shiite. The End.
- underhill14

I don't even really care about the Sens. If these two weren't busy dumbing it up, they wouldn't be on my radar any more than the Pathers, Canes, or Lightning.


Maybe that's their goal? Raising awareness

I don't even really care about the Sens. If these two weren't busy dumbing it up, they wouldn't be on my radar any more than the Pathers, Canes, or Lightning.


Maybe that's their goal? Raising awareness
- Feeling Glucky?

Good point. Gotta fill those seats.

okay so what are the rules here? are we going to be "scoreboard matters" over the pre-season even though the scoreboard for pre-season doesn't matter?

Unfortunately as much as we, as a society, strive for inclusion and acceptance, there is still a stigma there. People are treated like freaks, like a aberrations of nature. They are different in a way that most people find appalling, or sickening. Being gay is probably also difficult.
- Aetherial

There's a huge distinction between jealousy and dislike that Spatsoid seems to miss. And, a huge distinction between Karlsson and Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Kadri, JVR, Brown, Rielly, Zaits and Gardiner...then Kap, Sosh, Liljegren and a few others.....

Toronto is obviously in the better situation. It's amazing that those two idiots can argue against that point for almost 1000 pages.

Always hated Ottawa Senators but never because of jealousy, more because of their fans and poopty players especially Alfie and his eczema....that guy always looked like the stupid little kid that kept licking his lips in the winter and chap his own face from nose to chin.

I like Karlsson...a lot. Probably the only player on Ottawa that I have liked....ever.

Shiite city, shiite fans....just shiite. The End.
- underhill14

i like karlosson too. also liked fisher. spezza was good and his goofy laugh was endearing

I don't even really care about the Sens. If these two weren't busy dumbing it up, they wouldn't be on my radar any more than the Pathers, Canes, or Lightning.


Maybe that's their goal? Raising awareness
- Feeling Glucky?

anyone have a clip of shanahan making fun of the sens riding the bike after a game? that was epic.

i like karlosson too. also liked fisher. spezza was good and his goofy laugh was endearing
- systemtool

Spezza
Karlsson

that's it
(Although I recognize Hossa as having a great, under-rated career)

But spatso would have you beleive leaf fans jealous of sens....... Not sure how or why, but there you go.

Leaf fans jealous of all the sens championships?

Nope, they have zero

Leaf fans jealous of all the sens money?

Nope, sens franchise clips coupons while leafs are most valuable franchise

Leaf fans jealous of all the sens talent?

Nope, leaf are envy of the league with all their youth while sens stuck with boat anchor contracts like phanuef and Ryan






- burn

Check, Check, Check and Check
Sorry Spatso

Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.

2 generations?

How about we reflect on some history within the most recent generation...

In 2000, the teams met for the first time in the playoffs, with the Maple Leafs (Northeast Division winners that year) dispatching the Senators in six games. Some Maple Leafs fans saw this as revenge, as Senators Marian Hossa had accidentally clipped the Maple Leafs' defencemen Bryan Berard in the eye on March 11, nearly ending the young players's season and almost his career.

The next season, they met again in the first round, as Ottawa entered the playoffs ranked 2nd in the East and the Maple Leafs 7th. While the Senators were expected to defeat the Maple Leafs, especially since they had swept the regular season series against them, the Leafs swept the series in a major upset. Ottawa did not score their first goal of the series until 16:51 of the third period in the third game.

In 2002, the teams met in the playoffs for the third straight year. The two teams were very evenly matched, and the Maple Leafs, despite missing several key players, managed to win the second-round series in the full seven games and advance to the conference finals.

Ottawa and Toronto matched up in the playoffs for the fourth time in five years in 2004. Alfredsson guaranteed a victory after the Leafs took game 5. He delivered on his promise in game 6, but the Sens turned in a lackluster performance in the series finale. As was the case each time prior, the Maple Leafs beat the Senators in the series.
- Aetherial

Nonsense. That garbage he pulled was fully intentional. (frank) that guy.

Failure actually does create a market bottom over time. Even limited success after years of losing can produce intrinsic value. Nobody disputes that the Leafs have a huge market base. Leaf fans are hungry for a prescriptive remedy to their repeated failings.

I have said many times the third period unravelling in game 7'was a definitive bottom. Even if the Leafs go through a sophomore jinx and miss the playoffs, it will cause the same emotional trauma as that Boston series.

The Leafs do have a large market of support. But, they are also the most disliked sports franchise in Canada. Win or lose, it does not matter. A large segment of hockey fans will be happy.
- spatso

Also the most loved.

Obviously you don't know much about marketing and even less about sports management.

Ottawa (melnyk) is clearly following the pathway set out by the Oilers for getting a new stadium. People wonder how Ottawa was in the top ten of ticket sales dor years and years. Sometimes they were top five in sales. In the last couple of years there has been this precipitous drop off. Even Leaf and Canadiens games no longer attract plus 20,500. There is a purpose behind this calculated madness.

Why would people support the building of a new downtown stadium if they remained top 10 in attendance?
- spatso

That's because the ACC doesn't seat that many people for hockey games. The ACC was originally just for Basketball.

Had it have been designed for hockey originally it would easily sellout regardless of how many seats it holds. Even in excess of 20K.

Yes we have seen giddy before.

And we have seen the collapses that follow.

No reason to believe this is any different.

Scoreboard will be interesting this year. It does matter.
- spatso

I can't wait to see the heal turn you pull when the Leafs are rolling along and the Sens are sucking poop.

It'll be a backtrack for the ages.

There's a huge distinction between jealousy and dislike that Spatsoid seems to miss. And, a huge distinction between Karlsson and Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Kadri, JVR, Brown, Rielly, Zaits and Gardiner...then Kap, Sosh, Liljegren and a few others.....

Toronto is obviously in the better situation. It's amazing that those two idiots can argue against that point for almost 1000 pages.

Always hated Ottawa Senators but never because of jealousy, more because of their fans and poopty players especially Alfie and his eczema....that guy always looked like the stupid little kid that kept licking his lips in the winter and chap his own face from nose to chin.

I like Karlsson...a lot. Probably the only player on Ottawa that I have liked....ever.

Shiite city, shiite fans....just shiite. The End.
- underhill14

I don't care at all for Karlsson. Was always a Spezza fan, though. Heatley, too.

What the (frank) is wrong with everyone posting here.

Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.

2 generations?

How about we reflect on some history within the most recent generation...

In 2000, the teams met for the first time in the playoffs, with the Maple Leafs (Northeast Division winners that year) dispatching the Senators in six games. Some Maple Leafs fans saw this as revenge, as Senators Marian Hossa had accidentally clipped the Maple Leafs' defencemen Bryan Berard in the eye on March 11, nearly ending the young players's season and almost his career.

The next season, they met again in the first round, as Ottawa entered the playoffs ranked 2nd in the East and the Maple Leafs 7th. While the Senators were expected to defeat the Maple Leafs, especially since they had swept the regular season series against them, the Leafs swept the series in a major upset. Ottawa did not score their first goal of the series until 16:51 of the third period in the third game.

In 2002, the teams met in the playoffs for the third straight year. The two teams were very evenly matched, and the Maple Leafs, despite missing several key players, managed to win the second-round series in the full seven games and advance to the conference finals.

Ottawa and Toronto matched up in the playoffs for the fourth time in five years in 2004. Alfredsson guaranteed a victory after the Leafs took game 5. He delivered on his promise in game 6, but the Sens turned in a lackluster performance in the series finale. As was the case each time prior, the Maple Leafs beat the Senators in the series.
- Aetherial

Nonsense. That garbage he pulled was fully intentional. (frank) that guy.
- GreatGigInTheSky

Agree it was fully intentional and there was no suspension - player is supposed to be resposible for his stick.



Source: Bleacher Report

Bryan Berard was originally drafted first overall by the Ottawa Senators in the 1995 NHL entry draft. Shortly thereafter, Berard, who had scored 31 goals and 58 assists as a member of the OHL Detroit Whalers prior to the draft, informed the Senators that he would not report to the team.

As a result of his refusal to join the Senators, Berard, along with Martin Straka, was traded to the New York Islanders for defenseman Wade Redden and goaltender Don Beaupre.

With the scandal of his refusal to play for the Senators behind him, Berard entered the 1996-97 NHL season as a member of the upstart New York Islanders.

Berard did not disappoint, scoring 8 goals and adding 40 assists, while posting 86 penalty minutes. His poise with the puck while in the offensive zone was well documented and his skating ability was off the charts, clearly Berard came as advertised, a legitimate top tier defenseman, a legitimate franchise player, or was he?

Berard was rewarded for his strong first year effort by being awarded the Calder Trophy as the NHL’s rookie of the year. His 48 points would be the most he would score in his 11 year NHL career; curious that a player with so much potential would peak in his first full NHL season.

The following season, 1997-98, Berard would score 14 times and added 32 assists, good enough for 46 points. Offensively, Berard was quickly establishing himself as one of the NHL’s premier defensmen, but he struggled in his own zone and his discipline and decision making in his own zone was often questioned.

The following season, 1998-99, Berard would fall out of favor in New York. The Islanders, who had a reputation for having very little patience with their younger players, decided to trade Berard to the Toronto Maple Leafs for veteran netminder Felix “The Cat” Potvin.

The arrival of goaltender Curtis Joseph to Toronto had made Potvin expendable. The question was, what made the Islanders give up on a young talented defenseman, regardless of his minor shortcomings?

Fact is, giving up on Berard was a complete mystery to many in NHL circles. Sure, Berard had his faults, but at just 22 years of age, and with huge upside and untapped potential, were the Islanders giving up on Berard too soon?

In 38 games with the Leafs Berard scored five goals and 14 assists, good enough for 19 points. His impact was bigger than the stats suggested. Berard gave the Leafs a huge boost, his ability to start the rush was of enormous value and his offensive ability made the Leafs power play better. Berard seemed to be the final piece of the puzzle.

Berard would play 17 playoff games with the Leafs that season, scoring one goal and adding eight assists for nine points. Again, the stats do not suggest Berard had a huge impact on the team, but those who watched the Leafs playoff run know Berard was an integral part of that team.

Thinking back, Berard added to an already very talented Leafs defensive corps, one that could have been amongst the NHL’s best for years to come. Danil Markov, Tomas Kaberle, Sylvain Cote, Alexander Karpotsev, made up one heck of a defensive corps. Can you imagine if the Leafs had kept Jason Smith? I digress, back to the story...

Besides Berard’s impact on the ice he was well liked by his teammates. Berard was often spotted out in the local nightclubs with the likes of Mats Sundin, Tie Domi, Todd Warriner, Darby Hendrickson, Glen Healy and others. How do I know? I was there with them a few times...The Shark Club at Yonge and Eglington comes to mind.

To the dismay of Leaf fans everywhere, the Leafs playoff run would end in defeat, losing to the hated Buffalo Sabres in the Conference Finals. Yeah, I was in Buffalo for game three, a 4-2 loss for Toronto, can’t tell you how much fun that was!

It seemed as if Berard had found a home in Toronto. His potential was endless and he was surrounded by a good mixture of veterans to keep him in line and offer experience. Great teammates, close friendships, playing in the hotbed of hockey, clearly, Berard could be a star in Toronto.

Sadly, it was not to be.

On March 11, 2000, Bryan Berard’s life and hockey career would change forever. During a regular season game, ironically against the Ottawa Senators, Berard was high-sticked by Marian Hossa. Hossa, who had a reputation for playing with an active stick, clipped Berard’s right eye, resulting in a retinal tear and a detached retina.

The result of the injury was that Doctors felt Berard would eventually lose his eye. Berard reportedly told anyone that would listen that he would play hockey again and, to his credit, after seven tough operations in 1999-2000 he improved his vision to 20/600.

Unfortunately, 20/600 did not meet the NHL’s minimum vision requirement of 20/400, so Berard eventually settled on having a lens implanted into his eye, which brought his vision up to NHL minimum standards of 20/400.

Not exactly as stated in the bold - Berard did play another 329 NHL games but was a shadow of his former self. It was basically a career ending injury.

the Leafs are better

the Leafs are better
- thejonathans

but why?

Serious question, when did you bail on the leafs?
- burn

When Brian Burke gave up 2 firsts and a second for Phil Kessel. I thought it was a nightmare deal from the day it was made. Leaf fans accused me of disloyalty merely for saying so. I had been unhappy with the Leafs (and especially Brian Burke) for awhile. But that was the straw that broke the camel's back. When the Leafs collapsed the following seasons (Sequin and Hamilton), Leaf fans became increasingly upset with me for calling for the firing of Brian Burke. Sometime during that period I made the public switch and have never had a moment of regret.

I grew up as a Leaf fan watching HNIC every Saturday night with my grandfather in Northern Ontario. But, Ottawa and Eastern Ontario is my home and the fit with the Sens is very comfortable for me.