Agreed. We had the worst goaltending last year and finished #7. I don't see us getting higher than that.
- burn

Exactly. That's why I doubt this team finishes lower than last season.

I think there is some truth in what you are saying. But, there is a big difference. When was the last time Ottawa traded away a first round pick? My sense is Ottawa fans would be enraged had Ottawa traded away two first round picks for anyone other than a star player. Leaf fans have been desensitized by some really awful deals where their 1st round pick was surrendered without even firing a shot. We are used to having our future stolen, we don't resist, sometimes it is done at our insistence.
- spatso

I'd argue if The Sens traded a first rounder or two in the past, they'd have a cup or two now. They were way too conservative at trade deadlines when they were the best team in the league (Or top 3)

I'd argue if The Sens traded a first rounder or two in the past, they'd have a cup or two now. They were way too conservative at trade deadlines when they were the best team in the league (Or top 3)
- RogerRoeper

true. but theres a big difference between a good team trading multiple firsts and a weak team trading multiple firsts..

I agree with most. I don't think we ever had a chance at Hall, even if we struggle we wont be 1st or 2nd overall(picks). Look at how bad we were last year and we were 7th. So the notion of "giving up Hall" isn't really true, IMO.

The parameters were what I was questioning with the poster that was lamenting the trade. I agree that it'll take some time to see how it all plays out to see how this trade shakes down. By point was just that getting a 21 year old (22 now) who scored 36 goals is different from the past.

In the past we used to trade 1st for a 36 year old who scored 21 goals, now we got a 21 year old who scored 36.
- burn

Essentially, the team will decide the debate. For example, if they win convincingly against the Penguins it will be taken as a sign that all is well and the slow start was merely a hicup. If they lose convincingly Leaf nation will go into panic mode. More than likely the result will be somewhere in the middle and the debate will continue for another month or so.

Essentially, the team will decide the debate. For example, if they win convincingly against the Penguins it will be taken as a sign that all is well and the slow start was merely a hicup. If they lose convincingly Leaf nation will go into panic mode. More than likely the result will be somewhere in the middle and the debate will continue for another month or so.
- spatso

One game, either way, wont decide it.Do you See where I was going with the "it's different from before" part??

true. but theres a big difference between a good team trading multiple firsts and a weak team trading multiple firsts..
- gretzky

There's also a difference from what we used to do (Trading 1st for aging vets), compared to this (21 year old sniper who just scored 36 goals). Not saying it going to turn out well, still too early. But to say that we used to do it before and it didn't work out so it wont work out this time is a little short sighted.

There's also a difference from what we used to do (Trading 1st for aging vets), compared to this (21 year old sniper who just scored 36 goals). Not saying it going to turn out well, still too early. But to say that we used to do it before and it didn't work out so it wont work out this time is a little short sighted.
- burn

The notion that this is different has always been part of the Leaf language. It is not that long ago we were told that the draft was not that important and from that came the slogan "the future is now." This is such a large subject it is hard to try and focus on the many important issues. But let me take one.

The most important hockey day for the scouting staff is draft day. It is there Stanley Cup. When you deal the #1 pick you diminish the importance of everyone in your organization who scouts and develops players. Some teams will deal a 1st pick but they get another in return in order to preserve the commitment of their own people. When Burke blows off two first round picks, he sucks the oxygen out of his own organization. You can understand why some people are sounding so discouraged. For example, more people are beginning to speculate that the Leaf's 1st pick may turn out to be a lottery pick. Can you imagine how dreadful draft day will be if this outcome should come to pass?

So, do we panic yet? Can this get any worse?

I'd argue if The Sens traded a first rounder or two in the past, they'd have a cup or two now. They were way too conservative at trade deadlines when they were the best team in the league (Or top 3)
- RogerRoeper

You can't compare a team who could have traded a very late first round pick, with a team, in the second year of a total rebuild, who has just traded away two firsts and a second.

It is there Stanley Cup.
- spatso

Are you going to finish this sentence?

You can't compare a team who could have traded a very late first round pick, with a team, in the second year of a total rebuild, who has just traded away two firsts and a second.
- Doppleganger

Plus didn't they move a 2010 second to get the 09 3rd back? Or something like that?

Are you going to finish this sentence?
- Doppleganger

I was trying to highlight that draft day is the big event for all the scouting staff of each team. So, a team that trades away their 1st round pick significantly diminishes the importance on scouting and development.

Scouts monitor players starting 2 and 3 years away from their draft age. I guess the Leaf staff can just relax and wait a few more years.

Plus didn't they move a 2010 second to get the 09 3rd back? Or something like that?
- keslover17

I think Burke is nutz. I fear that we may be crying for JFJ to come back by Christmas. Sather may have been a good GM in Edmonton. But, when he got to the Rangers he quickly proved he was no Neil Smith. A different market where fans and media want star power. I think Burke may have fallen victim to a similar kind of situation. He tried to hit a home run and struck out.

Last night's game was pathetic. Leaf players running around the ice looking for someone to fight. Jason Blake demonstrating his best figure skating routine. Toskal still trying to look like an NHL goalie.

I really do think the Leafs are that bad that it is possible that they may have traded the #1 pick to Boston. On Leaf lunch on Fiday they were speculating that Taylor Hall might get sweater #4 as he is a Bobby Orr client. The consensus was he will problably wear 44 in Boston. Leaf fans have a right to be very angry. So, who has the power to fire Burke? Make it happen today.

I really do think the Leafs are that bad that it is possible that they may have traded the #1 pick to Boston. On Leaf lunch on Fiday they were speculating that Taylor Hall might get sweater #4 as he is a Bobby Orr client. The consensus was he will problably wear 44 in Boston. Leaf fans have a right to be very angry. So, who has the power to fire Burke? Make it happen today.
- spatso

I've seen some over reactions before but this is the most ridiculous yet.

Fire Burke four games into a season? The Bruins are destined to get Taylor Hall after four games in the season? Seriously calm the hell down.

I've seen some over reactions before but this is the most ridiculous yet.

Fire Burke four games into a season? The Bruins are destined to get Taylor Hall after four games in the season? Seriously calm the hell down.
- Leafy_84

Are you suggested I imagined the conversation on Leaf lunch where they talked about the Bruins using the Leafs pick to draft Taylor Hall? Remember 640 is the anchor station for Leaf broadcasts. What a mess, what a terrible, terrible mess.

Relaxe with the Taylor Hall talk, geeze. If the Leafs win next game then they leapfrog a ton of teams. It's too early to panic.

The Leafs look like they are lacking chenistry right now.

Relaxe with the Taylor Hall talk, geeze. If the Leafs win next game then they leapfrog a ton of teams. It's too early to panic.

The Leafs look like they are lacking chenistry right now.
- RogerRoeper

So, not to increase the pressure, but, if, they lose the next game, can we panic then?

I've seen some over reactions before but this is the most ridiculous yet.

Fire Burke four games into a season? The Bruins are destined to get Taylor Hall after four games in the season? Seriously calm the hell down.
- Leafy_84

If you take all the "pundits" predictions on how the leafs will fare this season, and look at the product on the ice, so far,........you have to wonder about the logic of trading away so many early round picks, in the second year of a five year rebuilding plan.

I think it's safe to say that the leafs drafting position at the next entry draft will be within the first ten picks, and potentially higher if they drop into a lottery position.

It seems to me that Burke came in with the rebuilding plan, already in progress and looked to be continuing the plan...............now he's traded away a number of key building blocks, that you don't see any other teams doing.

It's kinda like Dalton Mcguinty telling voters that he was not going to raise taxes, then after getting elected gave the voters the HIGHEST tax increase in Ontario history. What happened with the next election.........he was re-elected.....and has gone on to scam taxpayers for billions more of their tax dollars, in a number of scandals.

Is it a toronto thing? I'm beginning to wonder, cause it looks like leaf fans, who are also Ontario voters, are gluttons for punishment.

If you take all the "pundits" predictions on how the leafs will fare this season, and look at the product on the ice, so far,........you have to wonder about the logic of trading away so many early round picks, in the second year of a five year rebuilding plan.

I think it's safe to say that the leafs drafting position at the next entry draft will be within the first ten picks, and potentially higher if they drop into a lottery position.

It seems to me that Burke came in with the rebuilding plan, already in progress and looked to be continuing the plan...............now he's traded away a number of key building blocks, that you don't see any other teams doing.

It's kinda like Dalton Mcguinty telling voters that he was not going to raise taxes, then after getting elected gave the voters the HIGHEST tax increase in Ontario history. What happened with the next election.........he was re-elected.....and has gone on to scam taxpayers for billions more of their tax dollars, in a number of scandals.

Is it a toronto thing? I'm beginning to wonder, cause it looks like leaf fans, who are also Ontario voters, are gluttons for punishment.
- Doppleganger

It might be close to the truth. Leaf fans have been punished for so long, we are so accustomed to hearing one flim flam artist after another, we easily fall into the trap of buyig into the next guys snake oil. This time was more bizarre than usual. Burke said he wanted a more truculent team. How about a goalie who can stop a puck or a forward who knows where the net is? No give us more truculence, give us Orr.

.

It might be close to the truth. Leaf fans have been punished for so long, we are so accustomed to hearing one flim flam artist after another, we easily fall into the trap of buyig into the next guys snake oil. This time was more bizarre than usual. Burke said he wanted a more truculent team. How about a goalie who can stop a puck or a forward who knows where the net is? No give us more truculence, give us Orr.

.
- spatso

Im not a Leafs fan at all, but jeez..you guys need to give your team a little more time. Its only 4 games for frack sake. You can't make sweeping evaluations until the 25 or even 30 game mark. Some teams don't even get going until after the All-Star break. The trade for Kessel will bite you though, which is a shame because Burke, as much as I think he's an overrated egotistical windbag, had actually made some positive strides in the off-season. Rebuilds DO NOT trade away two first-rounders, even for a 21-year old 36 goal scorer (with injury issues.)
If the Leafs tank this year Chiarelli will ask Burke out on a date. (e5)

Relaxe with the Taylor Hall talk, geeze. If the Leafs win next game then they leapfrog a ton of teams. It's too early to panic.

The Leafs look like they are lacking chenistry right now.
- RogerRoeper

How about NOW?

How about NOW?
- Big T

the leafs were amazing tonight
very entertaining team to watch

How about NOW?
- Big T

Went 5/6 on the PK. They are improving. In a few weeks they'll probably be good enough to even win games! Top 3 pick?? Pfft, not a chance!

Toskala was just terrible tonight. And i've been defending him more than most. He looks done.

Please start Macdonald tomorrow.