BTW, with all of the obsession over the Kessel deal and how it's already one of, if not THE worst in NHl history, the best player in that trade is still Phil Kessel. Seguin looks like crap this year, but who cares? He's a HHOF lock!. Same with Hamilton.

And bringing up Seguin and Hamilton allows people who hate the Leafs to avoid how the team really does have nice young talent on their team. They're currently the second youngest in the NHl and playing very well.

How about the "Bust" Kadri? How about Frattin, one of the NHL's top rookies this season? What about crappy James Reimer and his great numbers?

The Leafs have much better young talent than they're given credit for.

I thought guys like Kadri and Reimer were jokes and not fit for the NHL? Is Morgan Rielly a bust yet
- RogerRoeper

I dont think it is the player you got that made it bad. It is the timing of the deal and trading a 1st when you had a bad team.

By the way Seguin has played 11 games and when Kessel was at 11 games he had one more point. Maybe Seguin will have 4 points in the next 2 games like kessel

I dont think it is the player you got that made it bad. It is the timing of the deal and trading a 1st when you had a bad team.

By the way Seguin has played 11 games and when Kessel was at 11 games he had one more point. Maybe Seguin will have 4 points in the next 2 games like kessel
- jordan456789

I think the issue is, the two players currently in the NHL on Boston are seen as can't miss franchise players and Kessel is seen as a pretty crappy player despite being the best out of the 3.

And the "Trade" overshadows great trades like Gardiner/Lupul for Beauchemin and JVR for Schenn. And how about getting Franson for a guy no longer in the NHL?

The Leafs have a lot more good young talent than they're given credit for.

Karlsson out for season...


Senator Agony.

Sens are screwed.

Gee, I wonder why this thread died?

Gee, I wonder why this thread died?
- Feeling Glucky?

Because of the leafs Stanley Cup Parade this June.

Because of the leafs Stanley Cup Parade this June.
- Doppleganger

Look....Even Karlsson is laughing!!!

Look....Even Karlsson is laughing!!!
- p_zub

- Feeling Glucky?

Hmmm...we seemed to have killed this thread. Have to be careful around here...might step on someone's Achilles tendon...

Hmmm...we seemed to have killed this thread. Have to be careful around here...might step on someone's Achilles tendon...
- p_zub

As long as you’re not Matt Cooke, it’s fine. If you’re Matt Cooke, people will automatically assume it was ninja assassin skills intentional.

- Feeling Glucky?

- Doppleganger

That's rich...

That's rich...


- p_zub

Whats rich is comparing a franchise that's been around since the 1917/18 to one that's been around since 1992/93.

apples to oranges

perhaps you should compare the two franchises on an equal basis, lets say since the leafs returned to the Eastern Conference in the 1998/99 season?

apples to apples.

Do people still think the Leafs have no future BTW? I think things look quite different now than a year ago. That trade by Burke to get JVR for Schenn was a fantastic trade. He's only 23 and signed long-term to an affordable contract and was taken second overall in the draft.

Most of the pieces on the team are very young, and the Marlies are a strong team. They also have a blue chipper in Rielly for the future.


It helps also, that instead of being laughable buats like many claimed, Kadri and Reimer look great and like they'll be a big part of the future.

Do people still think the Leafs have no future BTW? I think things look quite different now than a year ago. That trade by Burke to get JVR for Schenn was a fantastic trade. He's only 23 and signed long-term to an affordable contract and was taken second overall in the draft.

Most of the pieces on the team are very young, and the Marlies are a strong team. They also have a blue chipper in Rielly for the future.


It helps also, that instead of being laughable buats like many claimed, Kadri and Reimer look great and like they'll be a big part of the future.
- RogerRoeper

The leafs, as an organization, has definitely "turned a corner" and all of this can be attributed in most part to Brian Burke, despite the different direction the Kessel trade put the team on. If the Kessel trade is not made, I would suggest the leafs would be on an equally good upswing, with whomever they would have selected with the two first round picks they traded.

I've posted in this or another thread that the leafs will finally make the playoffs.

Whats rich is comparing a franchise that's been around since the 1917/18 to one that's been around since 1992/93.

apples to oranges

perhaps you should compare the two franchises on an equal basis, lets say since the leafs returned to the Eastern Conference in the 1998/99 season?

apples to apples.
- Doppleganger

Why 1998/99, and not 1992/93 when the Senators became an NHL team again? Who cares if they were in different conferences? Either way, neither team has won a cup. And yes, the Leafs have more cups than the Senators. Stats don't start and stop where you say they do so they suit your argument or to compensate for your city's irrelevancy to the NHL for most of the century.

I think the Kessel trade comments are fair to a degree, but at the same time, he is still the best player in the deal, and is still only 25 and is a terrific player. In fact, he's quickly becoming a fantastic passer and adding more dimensions to his game.

The "When Kessel isn't scoring he's invisible" comments are ridiculous.

Phil Kessel oddly is not considered in the "Kessel Trade" it seems.

And no, I'm not saying the Leafs "Won" the trade, just that I believe Kessel is vastly underrated as a hockey player and it may not turn out as the worst trade ever like most say.

I think the Kessel trade comments are fair to a degree, but at the same time, he is still the best player in the deal, and is still only 25 and is a terrific player. In fact, he's quickly becoming a fantastic passer and adding more dimensions to his game.

The "When Kessel isn't scoring he's invisible" comments are ridiculous.

Phil Kessel oddly is not considered in the "Kessel Trade" it seems.

And no, I'm not saying the Leafs "Won" the trade, just that I believe Kessel is vastly underrated as a hockey player and it may not turn out as the worst trade ever like most say.
- RogerRoeper

All Kessel has done since the trade is have to prove himself over and over to idiots. Even if we exclude his past record of being one of the more consistent goal scorers in the league, his development of other aspects of his game has far exceed that of Seguin, who's overall game has declined to the point where's he's been benched on several occasions this season. Seguin has never had to prove himself to detractors the way Kessel has had to, despite having nowhere near the stats and evolving game style.

All Kessel has done since the trade is have to prove himself over and over to idiots. Even if we exclude his past record of being one of the more consistent goal scorers in the league, his development of other aspects of his game has far exceed that of Seguin, who's overall game has declined to the point where's he's been benched on several occasions this season. Seguin has never had to prove himself to detractors the way Kessel has had to, despite having nowhere near the stats and evolving game style.
- p_zub

You're right, Seguin is not playing that well, but no one cares. It's Kessel who is the only one who ever has to prove himself it seems. In fact, in the Fall, all we heard from the media was how amazing Seguin was playing in Europe and how he would take the next step and dominate the NHL.

Kessel is "Streaky" uh no, he was a top 5 most consistent NHL player last season.

Kessel will never score without Savard! Uh, no, he finished PPG last season with the exact oppopsite: The worst #1 centre in the entire NHL.

All Kessel does is score goals! Uh, no, he is an excellent passer and had 45 assists last season.

You're right, he proves people wrong over and over. Guy is so underrated.

And instead of people ever talking about Seguin being benched, we'll hear how Kessel got benched in the playoffs 5 years ago. Kessel playoff stats BTW, far better than Seguin. 9 goals, 15 points in 15 playoff games.

You're right, Seguin is not playing that well, but no one cares. It's Kessel who is the only one who ever has to prove himself it seems. In fact, in the Fall, all we heard from the media was how amazing Seguin was playing in Europe and how he would take the next step and dominate the NHL.

Kessel is "Streaky" uh no, he was a top 5 most consistent NHL player last season.

Kessel will never score without Savard! Uh, no, he finished PPG last season with the exact oppopsite: The worst #1 centre in the entire NHL.

All Kessel does is score goals! Uh, no, he is an excellent passer and had 45 assists last season.

You're right, he proves people wrong over and over. Guy is so underrated.

And instead of people ever talking about Seguin being benched, we'll hear how Kessel got benched in the playoffs 5 years ago. Kessel playoff stats BTW, far better than Seguin. 9 goals, 15 points in 15 playoff games.
- RogerRoeper

Are people really debating if Kessel is a good player? The point of it being a bad deal is the leafs were a bad team and traded a 1st round pick. Seguin is younger so you cant compare them right now. The leafs are finally close to a playoff team this year and Kessel will be a UFA after next year. I think a rebuilding team should keep early 1st round picks instead of trading them. By the way you say he has proved people wrong over and over but all your points are bout last year.

Are people really debating if Kessel is a good player? The point of it being a bad deal is the leafs were a bad team and traded a 1st round pick. Seguin is younger so you cant compare them right now. The leafs are finally close to a playoff team this year and Kessel will be a UFA after next year. I think a rebuilding team should keep early 1st round picks instead of trading them. By the way you say he has proved people wrong over and over but all your points are bout last year.
- jordan456789

My points are about since he was traded by the Leafs. And people are still claiming all he does is score goals.

And I will be very surprised if Kessel walks. The Leafs can offer him more money than any team.

And if Seguin can be called a "Franchise Player" and get his butt kissed by everyone I can call him on his poor play and compare them.

Why 1998/99, and not 1992/93 when the Senators became an NHL team again? Who cares if they were in different conferences? Either way, neither team has won a cup. And yes, the Leafs have more cups than the Senators. Stats don't start and stop where you say they do so they suit your argument or to compensate for your city's irrelevancy to the NHL for most of the century.
- p_zub

In order to compare the two Ontario teams fairly, it is only logical when the two teams were put together in the same division in 1998/99. From that point on they've played the same teams the same amount a games (home and away) throughout the season, and each other.

I agree that toronto had more wins, cups etc than Ottawa between 1927/28 and 1992/93 when Ottawa did not have a team. toronto also has many more wins and cups than Brandon Manitoba over those same years, so leafs fans should also be proud of that too.


However, if the only way for the leafs to appear to be the better team, in some leaf fans eyes, is to include the decades when Ottawa was without a team, then by all means they should do so, becasue since expansion started in 1968, there has not been a whole lot of measurable accomplishments.

But since 1998/99 Ottawa has been the better of the two teams in may ways. And yes I know the leafs have an edge in preliminary round playoffs head to head match ups, but overall Ottawa has been the better of the two teams in many other measurable and statistical categories.

I think the Kessel trade comments are fair to a degree, but at the same time, he is still the best player in the deal, and is still only 25 and is a terrific player. In fact, he's quickly becoming a fantastic passer and adding more dimensions to his game.

The "When Kessel isn't scoring he's invisible" comments are ridiculous.

Phil Kessel oddly is not considered in the "Kessel Trade" it seems.

And no, I'm not saying the Leafs "Won" the trade, just that I believe Kessel is vastly underrated as a hockey player and it may not turn out as the worst trade ever like most say.
- RogerRoeper

I agree, but the leafs could be seen to lose the "Kessel trade" if they fail to resign him before he becomes a UFA.

My points are about since he was traded by the Leafs. And people are still claiming all he does is score goals.

And I will be very surprised if Kessel walks. The Leafs can offer him more money than any team.

And if Seguin can be called a "Franchise Player" and get his butt kissed by everyone I can call him on his poor play and compare them.
- RogerRoeper

You also have to factor in Dougie Hamilton. It's not a Seguin vs Kessel issue.

I've heard more reasons for Kessel not to sign with toronto and becoming a UFA, but it's all just speculation right now, but if he's not signed by this time next year, I would highly suspect he's going to become an UFA.

You also have to factor in Dougie Hamilton. It's not a Seguin vs Kessel issue.

I've heard more reasons for Kessel not to sign with toronto and becoming a UFA, but it's all just speculation right now, but if he's not signed by this time next year, I would highly suspect he's going to become an UFA.
- Doppleganger

I think if they offer him a huge 8 year extension, he signs it no doubt. His agent will pressure him to take it. The best financial deal will come from the Leafs.