I didn't realize Kessel won the Norris...
- gretzky

You really should get a better handle on this game of hockey before coming to a forum to talk about it.

Is there something in the water in Ontario?

His birthday is in October. I didn't realize it was August right now...
- gretzky

Was using this site as reference, if it's wrong, then you can still blame me if you wish, but does not change the fact that If he signs an 8 year Deal, after July 1st 2014, he will be 35 years old in 2022.


http://www.capgeek.com/player/214
BIRTHDATE: April 28, 1987 AGE: 25 2012-13 CAP HIT: $5,400,000

Thats really grasping. 6 hits in 19 games.
- sens rock

Unreliable stat. The statkeepers seem to go more on reputation than anything. If you actually watch teh guy play, you'll see him finishing checks, fighting off defenders, and generally being a much bigger physical presence than he used to be.

Unreliable stat. The statkeepers seem to go more on reputation than anything. If you actually watch teh guy play, you'll see him finishing checks, fighting off defenders, and generally being a much bigger physical presence than he used to be.
- Feeling Glucky?

cmon, he is by far the worst on his team in hits which i think accurately reflects his style.

Unreliable stat. The statkeepers seem to go more on reputation than anything. If you actually watch teh guy play, you'll see him finishing checks, fighting off defenders, and generally being a much bigger physical presence than he used to be.
- Feeling Glucky?

by your guys description he should be winning the hart trophy every year. no flaws whatsover.

cmon, he is by far the worst on his team in hits which i think accurately reflects his style.
- sens rock

I'm not saying he's a hard-nosed guy, but he's far more well rounded than he's given credit for

Unreliable stat. The statkeepers seem to go more on reputation than anything. If you actually watch teh guy play, you'll see him finishing checks, fighting off defenders, and generally being a much bigger physical presence than he used to be.
- Feeling Glucky?

Well, first, fighting off checks does not count as a hit on the scoresheet. He's been a hell of a playmaker this year, undoubtedly. Trying to knock his passing is a little silly, as anyone that's seen the guy play knows he's been a pretty top notch playmaker this year. He could easily have another 6 or 8 assists. There were a couple of games that he was setting guys up left right and centre, but nothing went in. The two back to back set ups to Kostka, on the doorstep, against Buffalo I think they were, immediately come to mind. Trying to knock his playmaking ability is either ignorance or hatred. And yeah, he's also been playing fairly well defensively. I think that has a lot to do with Carlyle. He isn't a physical player though. That much you have to be able to admit. He's not a physical player at all. That's fine though. Just about every other player in the lineup has a pretty decent physical element to their game. Even Kadri has shown a fair bit of piss and vinegar this year (which shouldn't be surprising, as it was a part of his game in junior).

Well, first, fighting off checks does not count as a hit on the scoresheet. He's been a hell of a playmaker this year, undoubtedly. Trying to knock his passing is a little silly, as anyone that's seen the guy play knows he's been a pretty top notch playmaker this year. He could easily have another 6 or 8 assists. There were a couple of games that he was setting guys up left right and centre, but nothing went in. The two back to back set ups to Kostka, on the doorstep, against Buffalo I think they were, immediately come to mind. Trying to knock his playmaking ability is either ignorance or hatred. And yeah, he's also been playing fairly well defensively. I think that has a lot to do with Carlyle. He isn't a physical player though. That much you have to be able to admit. He's not a physical player at all. That's fine though. Just about every other player in the lineup has a pretty decent physical element to their game. Even Kadri has shown a fair bit of piss and vinegar this year (which shouldn't be surprising, as it was a part of his game in junior).
- Dirte

Like I said, I'm not calling him a hard-nosed player... but he is noticeably more physical than in years past.

Kessel really sounds like an all around threat now. With those kind of skills, be'll be commanding 7+ million for sure. Maybe 8. Two way physical snipers dont grow on trees.

Kessel really sounds like an all around threat now. With those kind of skills, be'll be commanding 7+ million for sure. Maybe 8. Two way physical snipers dont grow on trees.
- sanfordnson

Oh, he's not physical. He's still soft compared to the rest of the league. If Taylor Hall can ever develop the scoring and playmaking skills that Kessel has (and avoid injury), that would be the guy you're referring to above.

Kessel really sounds like an all around threat now. With those kind of skills, be'll be commanding 7+ million for sure. Maybe 8. Two way physical snipers dont grow on trees.
- sanfordnson

Based on current contracts paying kessel anything over 6.3M puts him in the top 10 in cap hit for wingers. Is kessel a top 10 winger??

Based on current contracts paying kessel anything over 6.3M puts him in the top 10 in cap hit for wingers. Is kessel a top 10 winger??
- sens rock

Well, he was last year. Offensively, I'd say yes. Overall, that's questionable. If he can revive the goal scoring, without other parts of his game suffering, then I'd say he is. And I think he most likely will get his goal scoring going. From season to season, he's been a tremendously consistent goal scorer. There aren't many players that tend to hit 30 goals every single year, over a full season.

Oh, he's not physical. He's still soft compared to the rest of the league. If Taylor Hall can ever develop the scoring and playmaking skills that Kessel has (and avoid injury), that would be the guy you're referring to above.
- Dirte

Of course hes soft. Nuge has thrown more hits and I would never refer to Nuge as a physical presence.

Well, he was last year. Offensively, I'd say yes. Overall, that's questionable. If he can revive the goal scoring, without other parts of his game suffering, then I'd say he is. And I think he most likely will get his goal scoring going. From season to season, he's been a tremendously consistent goal scorer. There aren't many players that tend to hit 30 goals every single year, over a full season.
- Dirte

If he can get back to a ppg pace this season then i think there is a decent arguement for it. but there are some really good wingers that score a bit less but are much better all round players.

If he can get back to a ppg pace this season then i think there is a decent arguement for it. but there are some really good wingers that score a bit less but are much better all round players.
- sens rock

Well, yes, I think we're in agreement then. I also think the comments on physicality, why does anyone care, with Kessel? With a lineup that has Frattin, Komarov, Colton Orr forechecking like a beast, Mike Brown, Macarthur, Kulemin, all having pretty decent (and some much more than decent) physical play, even Kadri, Lupul and Grabovski have pretty good elements of toughness (not saying they're overly physical players, but they don't shy away from it, in the least either), there really isn't any need for it from Kessel. Not everyone can be Milan Lucic. In fact, there is only one of them.

jeez, you can't say a guy is more physical without claiming he's become a powerforward, and can't say he's better defensively without calling him a selke winner, apparently.

The guy has improved all aspects of his game. He's proven he's an elite goalscorer, and these last two seasons he's shown to be a top playmaker as well. These things aren't debateable, just watch him and you'll see it.

On top of that, he's far more committed to the back-check, and makes smart plays in his own zone, and has become more physical, able to fight through checks and finishing his own. Doesn't mean I'm claiming he's a selke winner or a power forward, just that the statement that all he does is score is wrong.

jeez, you can't say a guy is more physical without claiming he's become a powerforward, and can't say he's better defensively without calling him a selke winner, apparently.

The guy has improved all aspects of his game. He's proven he's an elite goalscorer, and these last two seasons he's shown to be a top playmaker as well. These things aren't debateable, just watch him and you'll see it.

On top of that, he's far more committed to the back-check, and makes smart plays in his own zone, and has become more physical, able to fight through checks and finishing his own. Doesn't mean I'm claiming he's a selke winner or a power forward, just that the statement that all he does is score is wrong.
- Feeling Glucky?

If I had to rate these aspects of him, in terms of his game these days:

Goalscoring – 9/10
Playmaking – 8/10
Defensive play – 6/10
Physicality 3 or 4/10

If I had to rate these aspects of him, in terms of his game these days:

Goalscoring – 9/10
Playmaking – 8/10
Defensive play – 6/10
Physicality 3 or 4/10
- Dirte

I'd agree

jeez, you can't say a guy is more physical without claiming he's become a powerforward, and can't say he's better defensively without calling him a selke winner, apparently.

The guy has improved all aspects of his game. He's proven he's an elite goalscorer, and these last two seasons he's shown to be a top playmaker as well. These things aren't debateable, just watch him and you'll see it.

On top of that, he's far more committed to the back-check, and makes smart plays in his own zone, and has become more physical, able to fight through checks and finishing his own. Doesn't mean I'm claiming he's a selke winner or a power forward, just that the statement that all he does is score is wrong.
- Feeling Glucky?

this is part of the reason why kessel gets so much flack from other teams fans. Kessel is not an elite scorer. He isn't in the league of stamkos, malkin, ovechkin, etc. He hasn't even come close to their level yet. He is a consistent above average scorer but far from elite.

this is part of the reason why kessel gets so much flack from other teams fans. Kessel is not an elite scorer. He isn't in the league of stamkos, malkin, ovechkin, etc. He hasn't even come close to their level yet. He is a consistent above average scorer but far from elite.
- sens rock

He did tie for 6th overall in goals scored last season, scoring one less goal than Ovechkin.

He did tie for 6th overall in goals scored last season, scoring one less goal than Ovechkin.
- Doppleganger

19th the year before and 21st the year before that.

this is part of the reason why kessel gets so much flack from other teams fans. Kessel is not an elite scorer. He isn't in the league of stamkos, malkin, ovechkin, etc. He hasn't even come close to their level yet. He is a consistent above average scorer but far from elite.
- sens rock

I guess that depends on what you mean by elite. Everybody seems to have their own definition. If you take that to mean that they set themselves apart from the rest of the league, you could say that Stamkos is really the only elite goalscorer at this point. I can't see too many people arguing that Kessel isn't a top 10 goal scorer in the NHL right now. I'd say that's a pretty safe statement. Whatever label you want to apply, feel free.

19th the year before and 21st the year before that.
- sens rock

21st, but missed 12 games that season , so not a great as some leaf fans would have you to believe, but not as terrible as others want you to believe.

I guess that depends on what you mean by elite. Everybody seems to have their own definition. If you take that to mean that they set themselves apart from the rest of the league, you could say that Stamkos is really the only elite goalscorer at this point. I can't see too many people arguing that Kessel isn't a top 10 goal scorer in the NHL right now. I'd say that's a pretty safe statement. Whatever label you want to apply, feel free.
- Dirte

There is a difference between elite and very good. As you said there are very few elite goal scorers and a bunch of very good ones. My view on elite would be a player that has a chance at 50 goals in multiple seasons.

If you dig even further, Kessel has a relatively poor career shooting % compared to other players at his level. So while kessel scores goals, he also takes significantly more shots than other players. One couuld say that those players are better "goal scorers" since they make more from less, while kessel is more a product of statistics.

There is a difference between elite and very good. As you said there are very few elite goal scorers and a bunch of very good ones. My view on elite would be a player that has a chance at 50 goals in multiple seasons.

If you dig even further, Kessel has a relatively poor career shooting % compared to other players at his level. So while kessel scores goals, he also takes significantly more shots than other players. One couuld say that those players are better "goal scorers" since they make more from less, while kessel is more a product of statistics.
- sens rock

Okay, a chance at 50 goals in multiple seasons, I think that eliminates everyone but Stamkos, Ovechkin, Crosby, and Malkin. I don't know if I'm missing anyone. And, I'd say that Ovechkin has not been showing that eh's an elite anything in recent history, Crosby unfortunately is a question mark these days. So, really, one or two elite goal scorers. Crosby and Malkin are also altogether elite players overall.

As far as his shooting % goes, you could also argue he creates more chances than most, through his speed and other things, and that's what makes him an elite goalscorer. i.e. other players are only "making more from less" because Kessel is making that less more.