Well, Alfredsson is 39, coming off a terrible season, and major surgery. Michalek hasn't put up more than about a 40 point pace in two years. Basically, since he's been off Joe Thornton's wing. At best, these guys are capable of being it, but haven't really been in a while. They have one top 6 forward, and you're hoping two more will be again.
- prock

Regardless of what your assessment of Ottawa's top 3 forwards, and whether or not they qualify (in your books) as legitimate NHL top 6 forwards, they are on most teams.

The weakness in Ottawa's line up, are the forwards that fall behind these three on the depth chart. Opposing teams need only worry about Ottawa's "first line", and they should make Ottawa struggle to score.

That is why I expect Ottawa to play a defensive, dare I say "trap", system, relying on their strength on defense and goal-tending, to stay in games.

Will this be enough to keep them out of the NE Basement? I don't think so, but it's a re-building season and that's what most knowledgeable Senator fans should expect.

Regardless of what your assessment of Ottawa's top 3 forwards, and whether or not they qualify (in your books) as legitimate NHL top 6 forwards, they are on most teams.

The weakness in Ottawa's line up, are the forwards that fall behind these three on the depth chart. Opposing teams need only worry about Ottawa's "first line", and they should make Ottawa struggle to score.

That is why I expect Ottawa to play a defensive, dare I say "trap", system, relying on their strength on defense and goal-tending, to stay in games.

Will this be enough to keep them out of the NE Basement? I don't think so, but it's a re-building season and that's what most knowledgeable Senator fans should expect.
- Doppleganger

Not last year. Michalek not in 2 years.

Not last year. Michalek not in 2 years.
- prock

your opinion.

Despite averaging 66 games a year (for past two) he's also averaged 20 goals for the same two seasons. Better than Tim Connolly, Joffrey Lupul, Matthew Lombardi and Clarke MacArthur in each of their last two seasons.

your opinion.

Despite averaging 66 games a year (for past two) he's also averaged 20 goals for the same two seasons. Better than Tim Connolly, Joffrey Lupul, Matthew Lombardi and Clarke MacArthur in each of their last two seasons.
- Doppleganger

Yeah, that's opinion. Sure. But give me a break. A 40 point pace puts him somewhere around 200th in terms of forwards in the NHL. With first line ice time and opportunities. There really isn't any indication he was any good defensively. Those are facts.

Alfredsson is in a very similar boat.

There is absolutely nothing to suggest these guys were decent top 6 players last year. And there is absolutely nothing to suggest that Michalek has been a decent top 6 forward since he left Thornton's wing.

Whether you like to admit it or not, on your average NHL team, these guys would have played themselves out of a top 6 spot.

Yeah, that's opinion. Sure. But give me a break. A 40 point pace puts him somewhere around 200th in terms of forwards in the NHL. With first line ice time and opportunities. There really isn't any indication he was any good defensively. Those are facts.

Alfredsson is in a very similar boat.

There is absolutely nothing to suggest these guys were decent top 6 players last year. And there is absolutely nothing to suggest that Michalek has been a decent top 6 forward since he left Thornton's wing.

Whether you like to admit it or not, on your average NHL team, these guys would have played themselves out of a top 6 spot.
- prock

And you're not taking into account both have had injury problems, and missed many games over the past couple of seasons.

Even still, both forwards you seem to be throwing on the trash heap, out scored most of the forwards on the toronto roster, who are slotted in as "top six" for the leafs.

.

And you're not taking into account both have had injury problems, and missed many games over the past couple of seasons.

Even still, both forwards you seem to be throwing on the trash heap, out scored most of the forwards on the toronto roster, who are slotted in as "top six" for the leafs.

.
- Doppleganger

points per game
Grabovski - .72
Kulemin - .70
Macarthur - .76
Kessel - .78
Lupul - .57
Connolly - .62

Alfredsson - .57
Michalek - .50

Well, Alfredsson is 39, coming off a terrible season, and major surgery. Michalek hasn't put up more than about a 40 point pace in two years. Basically, since he's been off Joe Thornton's wing. At best, these guys are capable of being it, but haven't really been in a while. They have one top 6 forward, and you're hoping two more will be again.
- prock

at a .5 ppg michalek still has to be considered as a top 6 forward. not a good one, but he's in the top 240 in forward scoring.

at a .5 ppg michalek still has to be considered as a top 6 forward. not a good one, but he's in the top 240 in forward scoring.
- sens rock

With 30 teams, there would be 180 top 6 forwards, wouldn't there? Doesn't that put him as a pretty good third liner?

points per game
Grabovski - .72
Kulemin - .70
Macarthur - .76
Kessel - .78
Lupul - .57
Connolly - .62

Alfredsson - .57
Michalek - .50
- prock

Nice spin, but I clearly was talking about goals.

your opinion.

Despite averaging 66 games a year (for past two) he's also averaged 20 goals for the same two seasons. Better than Tim Connolly, Joffrey Lupul, Matthew Lombardi and Clarke MacArthur in each of their last two seasons.
- Doppleganger

And you're not taking into account both have had injury problems, and missed many games over the past couple of seasons.

Even still, both forwards you seem to be throwing on the trash heap, out scored most of the forwards on the toronto roster, who are slotted in as "top six" for the leafs.

.
- Doppleganger

at a .5 ppg michalek still has to be considered as a top 6 forward. not a good one, but he's in the top 240 in forward scoring.
- sens rock

i agree with him, he has to be because they have no other option


nah in all honesty the guy has the potential to be a good player... just dont think this is the right system for him. May be time for a trade if he has another bad year

With 30 teams, there would be 180 top 6 forwards, wouldn't there? Doesn't that put him as a pretty good third liner?
- prock

it is 180. but at .5 ppg equals 42 points putting him at 130th. give or take 10-12 players in similar situations he's around 140-150.

i agree with him, he has to be because they have no other option


nah in all honesty the guy has the potential to be a good player... just dont think this is the right system for him. May be time for a trade if he has another bad year
- nightmare3020

when you factor in that he had major knee surgery in the last 2 years, its easy to see why his points diminished. At the end of last season he looked liked he was finally getting his speed back which makes him a much more dangerous player. He has some chemistry with spezza so it will be interesting to see how he does to start the season now that he is 100% healthy.

Nice spin, but I clearly was talking about goals.
- Doppleganger

Well, why you would look strictly at goals, I have no idea (actually, I know it's to suit your purposes)...

However, last seasons goals per game

Kessel - .39
Kulemin - .37
Macarthur - .36

Michalek - .27
Lupul - .26
Macarthur - .26
Alfredsson - .26


So, basically, if you consider that only an idiot would recommend putting three snipers together on one line, you're looking at 2 goal scoring spots per line, AT MOST. So, basically, at best, Michalek might scrape through to the second line. Realistically, however, given that Lupul and Macarthur are both tougher (Lupul also scored at a much higher rate with the Leafs), this would probably put them 5th and 6th in terms of goal scorers on the depth chart. Translation.... Michalek and Alfredsson on the third line. Again.

Coincidentally, this also puts Michalek at tied for 105th in terms of goals per game, and Alfredsson at 117th. Basically, even in terms of their goal scoring, not very good for the second line.

Pretty much any angle you want to look at it, they just weren't top 6 players last year. Michalek in 2 years now.

Well, why you would look strictly at goals, I have no idea (actually, I know it's to suit your purposes)...

However, last seasons goals per game

Kessel - .39
Kulemin - .37
Macarthur - .36

Michalek - .27
Lupul - .26
Macarthur - .26
Alfredsson - .26


So, basically, if you consider that only an idiot would recommend putting three snipers together on one line, you're looking at 2 goal scoring spots per line, AT MOST. So, basically, at best, Michalek might scrape through to the second line. Realistically, however, given that Lupul and Macarthur are both tougher (Lupul also scored at a much higher rate with the Leafs), this would probably put them 5th and 6th in terms of goal scorers on the depth chart. Translation.... Michalek and Alfredsson on the third line. Again.

Coincidentally, this also puts Michalek at tied for 105th in terms of goals per game, and Alfredsson at 117th. Basically, even in terms of their goal scoring, not very good for the second line.

Pretty much any angle you want to look at it, they just weren't top 6 players last year. Michalek in 2 years now.
- prock

macarthur is a 2nd line player now cause of one good season?

Well, why you would look strictly at goals, I have no idea (actually, I know it's to suit your purposes)...

However, last seasons goals per game

Kessel - .39
Kulemin - .37
Macarthur - .36

Michalek - .27
Lupul - .26
Macarthur - .26
Alfredsson - .26


So, basically, if you consider that only an idiot would recommend putting three snipers together on one line, you're looking at 2 goal scoring spots per line, AT MOST. So, basically, at best, Michalek might scrape through to the second line. Realistically, however, given that Lupul and Macarthur are both tougher (Lupul also scored at a much higher rate with the Leafs), this would probably put them 5th and 6th in terms of goal scorers on the depth chart. Translation.... Michalek and Alfredsson on the third line. Again.

Coincidentally, this also puts Michalek at tied for 105th in terms of goals per game, and Alfredsson at 117th. Basically, even in terms of their goal scoring, not very good for the second line.

Pretty much any angle you want to look at it, they just weren't top 6 players last year. Michalek in 2 years now.
- prock

Again nice spin to suit your purposes. I was clearly talking about the last two full season for the players we were discussing.

Seeing how you starting the discussion with

Not last year. Michalek not in 2 years.
- prock

your opinion.

Despite averaging 66 games a year (for past two) he's also averaged 20 goals for the same two seasons. Better than Tim Connolly, Joffrey Lupul, Matthew Lombardi and Clarke MacArthur in each of their last two seasons.
- Doppleganger

Michalek 40 goals in last two seasons played
Alfredsson 34 goals in last two seasons played (played only 54 games last year)
Connolly 30 goals in last two seasons played
Lupul 24 goals in last two seasons played ( missed a lot of games)
Lombardi 33 goals in last two seasons played
MacArthur 37 goals in last two seasons played

last two seasons, goals scored. get it now?

macarthur is a 2nd line player now cause of one good season?
- sens rock

He was AT LEAST a pretty good one last season. Like Alfredsson and Michalek were not.

He was AT LEAST a pretty good one last season. Like Alfredsson and Michalek were not.
- prock

he had a good season, sure. but the chances of him coming close to repeating that are pretty slim imo. I think he'll settle in the .5 ppg range this season.

Again nice spin to suit your purposes. I was clearly talking about the last two full season for the players we were discussing.

Seeing how you starting the discussion with


Michalek 40 goals in last two seasons played
Alfredsson 34 goals in last two seasons played (played only 54 games last year)
Connolly 30 goals in last two seasons played
Lupul 24 goals in last two seasons played ( missed a lot of games)
Lombardi 33 goals in last two seasons played
MacArthur 37 goals in last two seasons played

last two seasons, goals scored. get it now?
- Doppleganger

I said Michalek hasn't been in the last 2 seasons. i.e. he hasn't accomplished that in either of the two seasons. Not both combined.

Besides...

Better than Tim Connolly, Joffrey Lupul, Matthew Lombardi and Clarke MacArthur in each of their last two seasons.

I would read that to mean better than every one of those guys, in each of their last two seasons. Not better than all of them, when considering their last two seasons combined.

Either way, last season, he wouldn't have made the Leafs top 6. He wouldn't have made most team's top 6. The year before, when everyone was making fun of the Leafs for having no top 6 players, he may have made the top 6.

Either way, not a top 6 right now.

Clearly you've taken part of my post, to spin your BS the entire statement read

Despite averaging 66 games a year (for past two) he's also averaged 20 goals for the same two seasons. Better than Tim Connolly, Joffrey Lupul, Matthew Lombardi and Clarke MacArthur in each of their last two seasons.

your opinion.

Despite averaging 66 games a year (for past two) he's also averaged 20 goals for the same two seasons. Better than Tim Connolly, Joffrey Lupul, Matthew Lombardi and Clarke MacArthur in each of their last two seasons.
- Doppleganger

what part of that don't you understand?

despite how crappy you want us to believe he is, he still out scored (that means goals) most of the leafs forwards over the past two seasons.

But he couldn't crack their star studded line now could he???

Clearly you've taken part of my post, to spin your BS the entire statement read

Despite averaging 66 games a year (for past two) he's also averaged 20 goals for the same two seasons. Better than Tim Connolly, Joffrey Lupul, Matthew Lombardi and Clarke MacArthur in each of their last two seasons.
- Doppleganger

I. Don't. Care.

He has not done enough to be considered a top 6 forward either of the past 2 seasons.

You can cherry pick stats, compare goal scoring wingers to playmaking centres, and guys that have barely played a single season over the past two all you like, it doesn't change that.

He's not a top 6 forward. No matter how you want to spin things. I wouldn't take Michalek over any single one of those guys. He hasn't done SQUAT since he lost Thornton as a centre.

what part of that don't you understand?

despite how crappy you want us to believe he is, he still out scored (that means goals) most of the leafs forwards over the past two seasons.

But he couldn't crack their star studded line now could he???
- Doppleganger

Not star studded, but he still couldn't crack it.

Not star studded, but he still couldn't crack it.
- prock

Why would the leafs want a "top six forward" who despite playing only 66 games last year and the year before, and STILL scored more goals (FORTY) than every forward in the leafs line except for one??????


The leafs don't need goals, they have one of the best PPs and PKs in the the NHL...............oh wait!!!

I. Don't. Care.

He has not done enough to be considered a top 6 forward either of the past 2 seasons.

You can cherry pick stats, compare goal scoring wingers to playmaking centres, and guys that have barely played a single season over the past two all you like, it doesn't change that.

He's not a top 6 forward. No matter how you want to spin things. I wouldn't take Michalek over any single one of those guys. He hasn't done SQUAT since he lost Thornton as a centre.
- prock

being healthy this season i think he goes back to a 50+ point pace.

Why would the leafs want a "top six forward" who despite playing only 66 games last year and the year before, and STILL scored more goals (FORTY) than every forward in the leafs line except for one??????


The leafs don't need goals, they have one of the best PPs and PKs in the the NHL...............oh wait!!!
- Doppleganger

First of all, he hasn't scored more goals than every player in the Leafs lineup except one in the past two years...... Not surprising you're factually wrong.

Where did he stand last year?

Ohhh no..... Much further down.

Maybe he'd be good for our third line. Or second if someone got injured.

The leafs will need everything to go terrible for about four or five teams for them to finish 5th in the Conference, even if as you say "everything goes perfect for the leafs".

As improved as you may see the leafs over last season, you cannot say the teams they'll be in the running with for that possible 5th playoff spot, have not at least kept pace, or even improved more than the leafs.

I don't see either Ontario team in the playoffs this season, and if one were to make it, it would be no higher than the 8th seed.
- Doppleganger

Allow me to point out parts of my quote:

If everything goes perfect for the leafs, I see the highest they finish as 5th. That wasn't meant to be a compliment, it was saying that the best they could possibly do under the best of the best conditions is 5th. Is that so unrealistic?
- mfreedman