Started reading, but stopped when I noticed Toronto was the only name not capitalized.. You really hate everything Toronto eh?
- mfreedman

Keep you head buried in the sand if you wish, I thought perhaps you'd have a little more to offer to the points I brought up, but now that the good ship leaf nation is in danger of sinking to it's all so familiar port of finishing in ninth spot, I can understand that you'd rather not talk about it.


RANGERS .711
BOSTON .632
NEW JERSEY .621
PHILADELPHIA .612
PITTSBURGH .602
OTTAWA .574 (after todays game)
FLORIDA .560
WASHINGTON .543

toronto .542
WINNIPEG .525

Keep you head buried in the sand if you wish, I thought perhaps you'd have a little more to offer to the points I brought up, but now that the good ship leaf nation is in danger of sinking to it's all so familiar port of finishing in ninth spot, I can understand that you'd rather not talk about it.


RANGERS .711
BOSTON .632
NEW JERSEY .621
PHILADELPHIA .612
PITTSBURGH .602
OTTAWA .567
FLORIDA .560
WASHINGTON .543

toronto .542
WINNIPEG .525
- Doppleganger

You have to have the saddest life of anyone on this site

You have to have the saddest life of anyone on this site
- mfreedman

Not as sad as you seem to be. I tried to engage you an others in a discussion about the teams jockeing for the last few playoff spots in the Eastern Conference, in a post on the previous page where I broke down thier schedules and suggested some probabilities.

But you were offended by me typing "toronto" and threw a hissy fit.



But I suspect you were just trying to avoid seeing another leaf shortfall unfolding, and not wanting to talk about it.

I guess if I was a fan of a team that has failed to make the playoffs since 2004, and my team finished in 9th, 9th again, 12th, 12th, 15th, 10th and saw them sputtering out at this time of the season and perhaps going to fall short again, I'd be kinda depressed about it too.

Don't worry, the days are getting longer, you're going to get more daylight and the effects of Seasonal affective disorder should soon be diminishing and if BB makes a good trade or two, perhaps the leafs can finally make the playoffs.

Not as sad as you seem to be. I tried to engage you an others in a discussion about the teams jockeing for the last few playoff spots in the Eastern Conference, in a post on the previous page where I broke down thier schedules and suggested some probabilities.

But you were offended by me typing "toronto" and threw a hissy fit.



But I suspect you were just trying to avoid seeing another leaf shortfall unfolding, and not wanting to talk about it.

I guess if I was a fan of a team that has failed to make the playoffs since 2004, and my team finished in 9th, 9th again, 12th, 12th, 15th, 10th and saw them sputtering out at this time of the season and perhaps going to fall short again, I'd be kinda depressed about it too.

Don't worry, the days are getting longer, you're going to get more daylight and the effects of Seasonal affective disorder should soon be diminishing and if BB makes a good trade or two, perhaps the leafs can finally make the playoffs.
- Doppleganger

It has nothing to do with me being offended. It just shows me how much you hate the team. That means you are going to be biased towards anything negative about the leafs, whereas I am looking at the positive.

Most fans I like to talk to have somewhat of a negative view of the Leafs, but they can actually try and take a neutral stance to evaluate them. You are incapable of doing that it seems, and it stems from the fact that you seem to just hate the team so much. I have been able to talk of the positives of the Sens, cause I'm able to actually view the team for what it is.

Because of that, I see no reason to talk to you and am regretting all the time I have wasted doing so. Unless you can have a more neutral feeling about the leafs, i don't feel like wasting time discussing them, because nothing will get through.

It has nothing to do with me being offended. It just shows me how much you hate the team. That means you are going to be biased towards anything negative about the leafs, whereas I am looking at the positive.

Most fans I like to talk to have somewhat of a negative view of the Leafs, but they can actually try and take a neutral stance to evaluate them. You are incapable of doing that it seems, and it stems from the fact that you seem to just hate the team so much. I have been able to talk of the positives of the Sens, cause I'm able to actually view the team for what it is.

Because of that, I see no reason to talk to you and am regretting all the time I have wasted doing so. Unless you can have a more , i don't feel like wasting time discussing them, because nothing will get through.
- mfreedman

Neither of us are here to stroke each others ego, or to console each other throughor team's rough patches.

From the beginning of this thread, I've been giving you my honest opinion. For you to suggest anything else leaves me wondering that you don't appreciate an honest discussion, pitting my opinion against yours. I didn't realize that you wanted me to pull my punches and patronize you.

For example on the first page of this thread you suggested that the leafs could finish as low as 10th and as high as 5th.

I though that was a little wishful thinking on the high end on your part, and I said so.

You cannot be serious.

The leafs finishing as high as 5th in the Eastern Conference?

The leafs would have needed 19 more points last season to finish 5th in the Conference.

The leafs will be lucky to be "mathematically" in the hunt for a playoff spot with 20 games remaining in the season, at best.
- Doppleganger

That was my honest opinion, and it seems to have been pretty close (today) than what you were hoping for, for the leafs.

Also on the first page, your great friend prock posted his usual NON "neutral feeling (your words) about the Senators" and you jumped on board, doing exactly what you're whining about me doing.

He posted

It will take a monumental disaster for any team in the NE to finish behind the Sens. They're worse at every position than every other team.
- prock

Then you quoted and posted.

Agree except goaltending.

FLA, NYI, TB, and Potentially TOR (will know within 2 weeks of the season) can be considered worse
- mfreedman

Sure seems like you were NOT "actually trying and take a neutral stance to evaluate them" as you claim you do." (your words)

So stop being a hypocrite and stand in there like most of us do, if you're capable of it.

Neither of us are here to stroke each others ego, or to console each other throughor team's rough patches.

From the beginning of this thread, I've been giving you my honest opinion. For you to suggest anything else leaves me wondering that you don't appreciate an honest discussion, pitting my opinion against yours. I didn't realize that you wanted me to pull my punches and patronize you.

For example on the first page of this thread you suggested that the leafs could finish as low as 10th and as high as 5th.

I though that was a little wishful thinking on the high end on your part, and I said so.




That was my honest opinion, and it seems to have been pretty close (today) than what you were hoping for, for the leafs.

Also on the first page, your great friend prock posted his usual NON "neutral feeling (your words) about the Senators" and you jumped on board, doing exactly what you're whining about me doing.

He posted


Then you quoted and posted.


Sure seems like you were NOT "actually trying and take a neutral stance to evaluate them" as you claim you do." (your words)

So stop being a hypocrite and stand in there like most of us do, if you're capable of it.


- Doppleganger

Idiot.. look at that conversation. I said Toronto had better Depth, you had better offensive D and the goaltending was equal if not in Ottawa's favour.

How the hell do you consider that not looking at it neutrally? I felt the leafs had a little bit more to offer, at the moment its appearing to be wrong. That's how I felt, unfortunately I can't predict the standings. Did you honestly think the sens were gonna be where they are today?

Also, my guess was right so far - between 5-10.. .We have been as high as 4th in the season at one point and dropped. Saying that the absolute best we could possibl do, if everything went right, is 5th??? That's definately not being a homer.

Neither of us are here to stroke each others ego, or to console each other throughor team's rough patches.

From the beginning of this thread, I've been giving you my honest opinion. For you to suggest anything else leaves me wondering that you don't appreciate an honest discussion, pitting my opinion against yours. I didn't realize that you wanted me to pull my punches and patronize you.

For example on the first page of this thread you suggested that the leafs could finish as low as 10th and as high as 5th.

I though that was a little wishful thinking on the high end on your part, and I said so.





That was my honest opinion, and it seems to have been pretty close (today) than what you were hoping for, for the leafs.

Also on the first page, your great friend prock posted his usual NON "neutral feeling (your words) about the Senators" and you jumped on board, doing exactly what you're whining about me doing.

He posted


Then you quoted and posted.


Sure seems like you were NOT "actually trying and take a neutral stance to evaluate them" as you claim you do." (your words)

So stop being a hypocrite and stand in there like most of us do, if you're capable of it.


- Doppleganger

Get a life

How the hell do you consider that not looking at it neutrally? I felt the leafs had a little bit more to offer, at the moment its appearing to be wrong. That's how I felt, unfortunately I can't predict the standings.
- mfreedman

because you quoted and agreed with this post.

It will take a monumental disaster for any team in the NE to finish behind the Sens. They're worse at every position than every other team.
- prock

your post stated

Agree except goaltending.

FLA, NYI, TB, and Potentially TOR (will know within 2 weeks of the season) can be considered worse
- mfreedman

By "ageeing" with "They're worse at every position than every other team", with your only exception being goal-tending, which turned out to be bang on.

IMO that's not being neutral. You were agreeing with the biggest Senator hater, basher and the person with the biggest obsession of the Sens.

Honestly I don't put you in that category leaf fan, that being said, this is a Senator thread in the Senator forum, and most leaf fans who post in here, are just here to trash the Senators in any way they can twist things around to somehow justify that despite the standings, the leafs are, and have always been the better team in the division, since the two Ontario teams have played together in the NE Division (12 seasons) and any "perceived" (by this type of leaf fan) edge the Senators have over the leafs, is due to luck, over-achievement, how the planets are aligned that day or whatever warped logic they use.

So whenever a usually objective fan of another teams "runs with the pack" of the "hater baser" type of fan..............it tends to rub off on the "usually objective fan".

So when you blew off my post (Sunday @ 12:35 PM ET http://www.hockeybuzz.com...p?thread_id=90272&page=20) simply because..........

Started reading, but stopped when I noticed Toronto was the only name not capitalized.. You really hate everything Toronto eh?
- mfreedman

I thought either you have an extremely thin skin, or the post laid out a path to ninth place, for the leafs again, and you realized that it may actually happen as I laid out.


The leafs games tonight, and Saturday night are going to be the biggest games of the regular season in my opinion.

Tonight's, becasue if they lose, they'll have used up one of their games in hand on the Senators, and with a seven point gap between the two teams, the leafs will pretty much be only contesting for the eight and final playoff spot, with the Capitals and Jets.

Saturdays, because if they lose they'll most likely be in ninth (if they lose both games) behind the Capitals, with both teams having played the same number of games.

because you quoted and agreed with this post.


your post stated


By "ageeing" with "They're worse at every position than every other team", with your only exception being goal-tending, which turned out to be bang on.

IMO that's not being neutral. You were agreeing with the biggest Senator hater, basher and the person with the biggest obsession of the Sens.

- Doppleganger

I beleived the Sens were worse than most teams in terms of Offence and Defence to start the year. What I didn't count on was the incredible coaching they would receive and the way the players would buy into his systems.

Regardless of how I feel about your points int he future, I am done discussing with you, it is pointless

Edit: Oh, and just to add to the fact, these players are all on pace forhaving career years in certain aspects of their game on the Sens:

Butler, Condra, Foligno, Karlsson, Kuba, Lee, Michalek, Turris.


Sorry that I didn;'t see that coming

I beleived the Sens were worse than most teams in terms of Offence and Defence to start the year. What I didn't count on was the incredible coaching they would receive and the way the players would buy into his systems.

Regardless of how I feel about your points int he future, I am done discussing with you, it is pointless

Edit: Oh, and just to add to the fact, these players are all on pace forhaving career years in certain aspects of their game on the Sens:

Butler, Condra, Foligno, Karlsson, Kuba, Lee, Michalek, Turris.


Sorry that I didn;'t see that coming
- mfreedman

And if you read the opening post of this thread, neither did I. But I did point out that the Senators this season, were not going to be as bad as those who predicted they were going to be based on the last seasons record.

But I guess you could say the same for a number of leafs as well ( in terms of career years). To me this means little if anything, when trying to figure out why a team is playing better that expected.

But attentive Senator fans saw a lot of "career lows" from number of Senators last season. So I said as much in the first post of this thread. They would not be too far ahead or behind of the predicted spot in the division made for the leafs, by fans like yourself.



Lat season, it could be argued that a number of "veterans" grew tired of the way the coaching staff was handling the team and the players. Murray also saw this and decided it was time to re-build. Out with the veterans, bring up the AHLers and load up on first rounders at the draft. Bring in a new coaching staff, and start year one of a three year re-build.

And if you read the opening post of this thread, neither did I. But I did point out that the Senators this season, were not going to be as bad as those who predicted they were going to be based on the last seasons record.

But I guess you could say the same for a number of leafs as well ( in terms of career years). To me this means little if anything, when trying to figure out why a team is playing better that expected.

But attentive Senator fans saw a lot of "career lows" from number of Senators last season. So I said as much in the first post of this thread. They would not be too far ahead or behind of the predicted spot in the division made for the leafs, by fans like yourself.



Lat season, it could be argued that a number of "veterans" grew tired of the way the coaching staff was handling the team and the players. Murray also saw this and decided it was time to re-build. Out with the veterans, bring up the AHLers and load up on first rounders at the draft. Bring in a new coaching staff, and start year one of a three year re-build.
- Doppleganger

Good post ,but i will disagree on this one point ,to me BM identfied the need to get younger and cheaper after the cup run,the dumping of higher priced tallent started back then.Priessing,mezaros,corvo,vermette etc where all moved out and replaced by cheaper shorter term and in most cases less effective players than the ones they replaced.Remember Brendan bell,Luke Richardson,Campoli,Kovalev etc these where all plug players that were signed to act as filler until new cheaper and better versions could be developed or obtained.

So as far as a three year plan its been 4 years in the making after the last of the 3 years have eclipsed ,we will have had a pretty pain free 7 year rebulid

Good post ,but i will disagree on this one point ,to me BM identfied the need to get younger and cheaper after the cup run,the dumping of higher priced tallent started back then.Priessing,mezaros,corvo,vermette etc where all moved out and replaced by cheaper shorter term and in most cases less effective players than the ones they replaced.Remember Brendan bell,Luke Richardson,Campoli,Kovalev etc these where all plug players that were signed to act as filler until new cheaper and better versions could be developed or obtained.

So as far as a three year plan its been 4 years in the making after the last of the 3 years have eclipsed ,we will have had a pretty pain free 7 year rebulid
- top shelf 15

I used the "three year plan" as stated, because that's what the owned and Murray in recent radio interviews in Ottawa and toronto have said.

The players let go that you call "high priced" were players whom Murray deemed to be asking to much, when their contracts came up for negotiation, for what they brought to the team, so they were let go or traded or were used to trade for a "need" ( in Vermette's case).

And yes it was an attempt at a quick tweaking, that really did not work.

I used the "three year plan" as stated, because that's what the owned and Murray in recent radio interviews in Ottawa and toronto have said.

The players let go that you call "high priced" were players whom Murray deemed to be asking to much, when their contracts came up for negotiation, for what they brought to the team, so they were let go or traded or were used to trade for a "need" ( in Vermette's case).

And yes it was an attempt at a quick tweaking, that really did not work.
- Doppleganger

But it did start the ball rolling did it not,Players like EK,Zsmith,Cowen etc where all drafted and developed during that time do you not agree

And if you read the opening post of this thread, neither did I. But I did point out that the Senators this season, were not going to be as bad as those who predicted they were going to be based on the last seasons record.

But I guess you could say the same for a number of leafs as well ( in terms of career years). To me this means little if anything, when trying to figure out why a team is playing better that expected.

But attentive Senator fans saw a lot of "career lows" from number of Senators last season. So I said as much in the first post of this thread. They would not be too far ahead or behind of the predicted spot in the division made for the leafs, by fans like yourself.



Lat season, it could be argued that a number of "veterans" grew tired of the way the coaching staff was handling the team and the players. Murray also saw this and decided it was time to re-build. Out with the veterans, bring up the AHLers and load up on first rounders at the draft. Bring in a new coaching staff, and start year one of a three year re-build.
- Doppleganger

This was actually a more sensible post, so I will respond.. (See! I knew you could do it )

I agree with the bolded completely and that is my point. I couldn't predict that Sens players were going to have career years, just as I couldn't predict several Leafs would too.

Both the Sens and Leafs are higher up in the standings than I expected at the beginning of the season. I was wrong in regards to where I thought they would be at this point, but so were you (as is normal when trying to predict standings).

Can't we both just be happy that both the Sens and the Leafs are int he playoffs for the first time in 9 years

Hoping for some good playoff battles should we both still be in the dance come season end.. At which point, IF by some miracle we make it out of the first round and face each other (again by some miracle), I will return to hating Ottawa for the duration fo the series

This was actually a more sensible post, so I will respond.. (See! I knew you could do it )

I agree with the bolded completely and that is my point. I couldn't predict that Sens players were going to have career years, just as I couldn't predict several Leafs would too.

Both the Sens and Leafs are higher up in the standings than I expected at the beginning of the season. I was wrong in regards to where I thought they would be at this point, but so were you (as is normal when trying to predict standings).

Can't we both just be happy that both the Sens and the Leafs are int he playoffs for the first time in 9 years

Hoping for some good playoff battles should we both still be in the dance come season end.. At which point, IF by some miracle we make it out of the first round and face each other (again by some miracle), I will return to hating Ottawa for the duration fo the series
- mfreedman

It would be an extreme long shot for both Ontario teams (assuming both make the playoffs most probably in the 7th and 8th spot) advancing to the point where they would face each other. It would mean both teams winning their first two rounds.

Both teams would be in tough in the first round getting past the probable 1st and 2nd seeds.

Ottawa has fared pretty well against possible first round match ups in the Eastern Conference, except for the Bruins of course, whom they have yet to beat this season.

The Senators are 2-1-0 vs the Rangers, 3-0-0 vs the Panthers, 1-0-1 vs the Devils, 1-1-1 vs the Flyers and 2-1-0 vs the Penguins. In an Ideal world, any team including the Senators would love to line up against the Panthers in the first round, if they hold onto the third seed. Winnipeg could still slip into that spot and would be a tougher opponent IMHO.

I'd don't really know how the season series have gone for the leafs vs the Eastern Conference teams, but it does not look like there will be a battle of Ontario this spring.

So maybe not this season, but perhaps in the future.

It would be an extreme long shot for both Ontario teams (assuming both make the playoffs most probably in the 7th and 8th spot) advancing to the point where they would face each other. It would mean both teams winning their first two rounds.

Both teams would be in tough in the first round getting past the probable 1st and 2nd seeds.

Ottawa has fared pretty well against possible first round match ups in the Eastern Conference, except for the Bruins of course, whom they have yet to beat this season.

The Senators are 2-1-0 vs the Rangers, 3-0-0 vs the Panthers, 1-0-1 vs the Devils, 1-1-1 vs the Flyers and 2-1-0 vs the Penguins. In an Ideal world, any team including the Senators would love to line up against the Panthers in the first round, if they hold onto the third seed. Winnipeg could still slip into that spot and would be a tougher opponent IMHO.

I'd don't really know how the season series have gone for the leafs vs the Eastern Conference teams, but it does not look like there will be a battle of Ontario this spring.

So maybe not this season, but perhaps in the future.
- Doppleganger

Agreed.. I was just dreaming

Hey prock, I can't access NHL.com for some reason. How far ahead are the Leafs now?
- Asquaredx2

"miles and miles"


BOSTON .627 / 100%
OTTAWA .567 / 92.5%
BUFFALO .523 / 13.1%
TORONTO .515 / 18.0%
MONTREAL .455 / 0.1%

MONTREAL .455 / 0.1%
- Doppleganger

i am officially cheering for montreal to make the playoffs now

what a story that would be

i am officially cheering for montreal to make the playoffs now

what a story that would be
- nightmare3020

Joining you.

Joining you.
- Mr_Squeaks

Then Randey Cunneyworth resigns as coach, in a F YOU moment to the Quebec language police

Then Randey Cunneyworth resigns as coach, in a F YOU moment to the Quebec language police
- top shelf 15

In an English only press-conference. Final words: "Poutine sucks."

In an English only press-conference. Final words: "Poutine sucks."
- Mr_Squeaks

Et mange moi

Michalek hasn't put up more than about a 40 point pace in two years. Basically, since he's been off Joe Thornton's wing.
- prock

He's played 63 (without Thornton) scored 32 goals, has 18 assists for a total of 50 points.

Not bad on a team that has "only one top six forward" Spezza (your words)

There is one top 6 player on the roster, now that Alfredsson looks to be done for.
- prock

.

He's played 63 (without Thornton) scored 32 goals, has 18 assists for a total of 50 points.

Not bad on a team that has "only one top six forward" Spezza (your words)
- Doppleganger

Great. Career year. Like lots of your players are having this year. It's actually gotten them a depth playoff spot, it appears.

What happens when they go back to their crap selves?

Great. Career year. Like lots of your players are having this year. It's actually gotten them a depth playoff spot, it appears.

What happens when they go back to their crap selves?
- prock

Just because the leafs, who were as high as third in the Conference earlier in the season, "went back to their crap selves" doesn't mean other teams will follow suit.

Since the first week of February, the leafs have trended down, while most of the other teams in the East have either maintained thier pace of play, or trended up when compared to the leafs.

It's the leafs that you should focus on, not sitting there waiting for the Sens to pull a "leaf plummet".

Don't worry, you'll have great day in the near future, when the Senators get beaten and eliminated from the playoffs.