Personally I thought the Anderson trade was awful considering it cost them draft position. For a team that has no chance of competing and should be looking at a high pick for this year getting an avg veteran goalie is pointless. They could have signed someone in the offseason. I don't see how Murray isn't one of the worst GM's in the league.
- habby

I don't think he's very good. Sens fans seem to think he's a great drafter. But honestly, if you go back through his entire history as a GM in this league, he doesn't really have a great track record IMO. Apart from Perry and Getzlaf, who he got in the first round in the best draft in history, it's basically nearly 20 years of mediocre results. At best really.

But Sherman takes the cake for worst GM lately.

I don't think he's very good. Sens fans seem to think he's a great drafter. But honestly, if you go back through his entire history as a GM in this league, he doesn't really have a great track record IMO. Apart from Perry and Getzlaf, who he got in the first round in the best draft in history, it's basically nearly 20 years of mediocre results. At best really.

But Sherman takes the cake for worst GM lately.
- prock

Burke himself even gave him alot of the credit for assembling the core of the cup winning Ducks.

If you look at the prospects the sens had when he came in until now there is a extreme improvement in that area.

Burke himself even gave him alot of the credit for assembling the core of the cup winning Ducks.

If you look at the prospects the sens had when he came in until now there is a extreme improvement in that area.
- sens rock

That's because since he's taken over they're consistantly drafting higher than before. How's the NHL roster been? Exactly.

That's because since he's taken over they're consistantly drafting higher than before. How's the NHL roster been? Exactly.
- habby

taken to the scf? he had his successes early on with the team and was forced to rebuild. I think he's done an excellent job the last few years drafting.

His nhl player trades have been sub-par.

taken to the scf? he had his successes early on with the team and was forced to rebuild. I think he's done an excellent job the last few years drafting.

His nhl player trades have been sub-par.
- sens rock

I shouldn't have to tell you that Muckler was the GM of that team.

Burke himself even gave him alot of the credit for assembling the core of the cup winning Ducks.

If you look at the prospects the sens had when he came in until now there is a extreme improvement in that area.
- sens rock

Regardless of what you may think of burke, he constantly credits the people around him for any and all successes. He consistently praises JFJ as well.

And he praises Murray for Getzlaf and Perry. I don't believe I've ever heard him use the term core.

I shouldn't have to tell you that Muckler was the GM of that team.
- habby

right, i thought that was the year he did both.

Regardless of what you may think of burke, he constantly credits the people around him for any and all successes. He consistently praises JFJ as well.

And he praises Murray for Getzlaf and Perry. I don't believe I've ever heard him use the term core.
- prock

he also set up the core for the wings cup wins in the 90's.

I don't think he's the best GM, but he has shown to have a good drafting system, and able to build foundations for franchises. I think he is well on his way to doing that with the Sens as well.

he also set up the core for the wings cup wins in the 90's.

I don't think he's the best GM, but he has shown to have a good drafting system, and able to build foundations for franchises. I think he is well on his way to doing that with the Sens as well.
- sens rock

Well, here are the players he drafted in Detroit...

Martin Lapointe
Jamie Pushor
Chris Osgood
Mike Knuble
Dmitri Motkov
Igor Malykhin
Jim Bermingham
Jason Firth
Bart Turner
Andrew Miller
Curtis Bowen
Darren McCarty
Sylvain Cloutier
Mike Sullivan
Jason MacDonald
Greg Scott
Justin Krall
C.J. Denomme
Jeff Walker
Dan McGillis
Ryan Bach
Anders Eriksson
Jon Coleman
Kevin Hilton
John Jakopin
Benoit Larose
Norm Maracle
Tim Spitzig
Yuri Yeresko
Vitezslav Skuta
Ryan Shanahan
Jamie Kosecki
Gordy Hunt

Here are the players he acquired by trade:

Paul Yserbart
Brad Marsh
Doug Crossman
Allen Bester
Alan Kerr
Ken Quinney
Troy Crowder
Vincent Riendeau
Chris Tancill
Greg Millen
Max Middledorf
Bob Mcgill
Dennis Vial
Brent Fedyk
Paul Coffey
Sylvain Couturier
Jim Hiller
Greg Johnson
Kris Draper
Peter Ing
Terry Carkner
Bob Essensa
Sergei Bautin
Daniel Berthiaume

Lastly Free Agent signings - Lonnie Loach, Mark Howe, John Ogrodnick, Micah Aivizoff, Craig Martin, Tim Taylor, Mark Pederson




Who from these lists, other than Paul Coffey (who only won one cup with the Wings), was part of the cup winning Wings teams?

Well, here are the players he drafted in Detroit...

Martin Lapointe
Jamie Pushor
Chris Osgood
Mike Knuble
Dmitri Motkov
Igor Malykhin
Jim Bermingham
Jason Firth
Bart Turner
Andrew Miller
Curtis Bowen
Darren McCarty
Sylvain Cloutier
Mike Sullivan
Jason MacDonald
Greg Scott
Justin Krall
C.J. Denomme
Jeff Walker
Dan McGillis
Ryan Bach
Anders Eriksson
Jon Coleman
Kevin Hilton
John Jakopin
Benoit Larose
Norm Maracle
Tim Spitzig
Yuri Yeresko
Vitezslav Skuta
Ryan Shanahan
Jamie Kosecki
Gordy Hunt

Here are the players he acquired by trade:

Paul Yserbart
Brad Marsh
Doug Crossman
Allen Bester
Alan Kerr
Ken Quinney
Troy Crowder
Vincent Riendeau
Chris Tancill
Greg Millen
Max Middledorf
Bob Mcgill
Dennis Vial
Brent Fedyk
Paul Coffey
Sylvain Couturier
Jim Hiller
Greg Johnson
Kris Draper
Peter Ing
Terry Carkner
Bob Essensa
Sergei Bautin
Daniel Berthiaume

Lastly Free Agent signings - Lonnie Loach, Mark Howe, John Ogrodnick, Micah Aivizoff, Craig Martin, Tim Taylor, Mark Pederson




Who from these lists, other than Paul Coffey (who only won one cup with the Wings), was part of the cup winning Wings teams?
- prock

you're right. he's only been an nhl executive and coach for the last 30 years because he isn't very good.

you're right. he's only been an nhl executive and coach for the last 30 years because he isn't very good.

- sens rock

Well, the flip side to your statement is, he's never lasted more than 4 years with one team, until now.

but, that's besides the point. You made the statement that he built the core of the cup winning Wings teams. I listed every single player that he acquired while with the Wings, by any possible method. I just don't see any justification for what you're saying.

It looks to me like he contributed an incredibly insignificant amount to the Wings over his tenure as GM. If anything, he set them back a few years.

As you go from team to team that he's been a GM of, that seems to be a general trend, in fact.

But, all of that aside, I'm just curious who, from those lists, you feel was the core of the cup winning teams?

Well, the flip side to your statement is, he's never lasted more than 4 years with one team, until now.

but, that's besides the point. You made the statement that he built the core of the cup winning Wings teams. I listed every single player that he acquired while with the Wings, by any possible method. I just don't see any justification for what you're saying.

It looks to me like he contributed an incredibly insignificant amount to the Wings over his tenure as GM. If anything, he set them back a few years.

As you go from team to team that he's been a GM of, that seems to be a general trend, in fact.

But, all of that aside, I'm just curious who, from those lists, you feel was the core of the cup winning teams?
- prock

its rare for a gm to last more than 4-5 years with a team. there are exceptions but not too many.

Draper, McCarty and Osgood were all part of many cup winning teams. Did he not also draft Primeau and Kozlov? i know he took over in 1990 but don't know if he was there for the draft. I'll admit i didn't looking into the details of his Detroit tenure before making that statement, just looked at the years he was there and their successes shortly after.

I don't know how he sets teams back. Shortly after leaving 2 of his teams they went on to win the cup. and he took the panthers to the finals as GM and coach within a couple years of expansion.

Because of him the sens now have one of the deepest prospect pools and their minor league team is coming off a Calder cup win.

its rare for a gm to last more than 4-5 years with a team. there are exceptions but not too many.

Draper, McCarty and Osgood were all part of many cup winning teams. Did he not also draft Primeau and Kozlov? i know he took over in 1990 but don't know if he was there for the draft. I'll admit i didn't looking into the details of his Detroit tenure before making that statement, just looked at the years he was there and their successes shortly after.

I don't know how he sets teams back. Shortly after leaving 2 of his teams they went on to win the cup. and he took the panthers to the finals as GM and coach within a couple years of expansion.

Because of him the sens now have one of the deepest prospect pools and their minor league team is coming off a Calder cup win.
- sens rock

He set teams back by doing pretty much nothing with them, drafting poorly, and letting their players age and walk.

Seriously, when you think of the core of those Red Wings teams, do you think Draper, McCarty, and Osgood? Or do you think Lidstrom, Fedorov, Shanahan, Yzerman?

The guys you mention may have played roles. But to say they were the core of those teams is a huge stretch. The best case you have is probably Coffey. And that's it, really. One player.

Look, it's just not true to say he built the core of the Wings cup winning teams from the 90s. He didn't. He acquired a few peripheral pieces, that really weren't all that instrumental at all.

Seriously, when you think of the core of those Red Wings teams, do you think Draper, McCarty, and Osgood? Or do you think Lidstrom, Fedorov, Shanahan, Yzerman?

The guys you mention may have played roles. But to say they were the core of those teams is a huge stretch. The best case you have is probably Coffey. And that's it, really. One player.

Look, it's just not true to say he built the core of the Wings cup winning teams from the 90s. He didn't. He acquired a few peripheral pieces, that really weren't all that instrumental at all.
- prock

I already admitted that i didn't do the research before i made that comment.

I already admitted that i didn't do the research before i made that comment.
- sens rock

Fair enough then.

To your earlier question, he was hired in July of 1990, after the 1990 draft.

Wow you are such an idiot it is amazing.. All I said is that you mentioned leafs int he thread, which invites leaf fans to the discussion..

You are telling me if I entitle a topic as:

"SENS FANS ARE THE BIGGEST (frank)ING JOKE OF THE NHL, AND THEIR TEAM IS IN SHAMBLES! ALL SENS FANS ARE DELUSIONAL!"

If any sens fan comments on this, can I call them a troll because tey entered a leafs thread?

Note: This was a rhetorical question as any response other than "You are correct Mr. Freedman Sir" would be fairly idiotic
- mfreedman

Look, when people stray off topic, for whatever reason, and resort to childish personal attacks, they are trolling, and it's plain for everyone to see except perhaps for those who are guilty. When they've run out of logical arguments, or start to contradict themselves over the substance of the topic they slip into trolling.

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion

Fair enough then.

To your earlier question, he was hired in July of 1990, after the 1990 draft.
- prock

i will say that in the last 3-4 years he has added karlsson, cowen, runblad, weircoch, lehner, silverberg, butler, stone, zibenjad, puempel, noesen, prince, dacosta, smith and obrien.

Thats a pretty impressive prospect group imo.

taken to the scf? he had his successes early on with the team and was forced to rebuild. I think he's done an excellent job the last few years drafting.

His nhl player trades have been sub-par.
- sens rock

And a couple of free agent signings.

And a couple of free agent signings.
- Doppleganger

I don't know what's worse. The fact that Murray still has his job or that people are defending the work he's done.

Look, when people stray off topic, for whatever reason, and resort to childish personal attacks, they are trolling, and it's plain for everyone to see except perhaps for those who are guilty. When they've run out of logical arguments, or start to contradict themselves over the substance of the topic they slip into trolling.

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion

- Doppleganger

Then just about every poster on here is a troll. 99% of threads go off topic. The ones that don't are the ones that die after two or three posts.

I don't know what's worse. The fact that Murray still has his job or that people are defending the work he's done.
- habby

he has a job because of the prospect list above.

i will say that in the last 3-4 years he has added karlsson, cowen, runblad, weircoch, lehner, silverberg, butler, stone, zibenjad, puempel, noesen, prince, dacosta, smith and obrien.

Thats a pretty impressive prospect group imo.
- sens rock

It looks to be better than his track record. So far. As someone else has said, he's been drafting closer to the top recently.

but, either way, until these guys pan out, he doesn't have anything but his proven track record, which, IMO, isn't very good.

he has a job because of the prospect list above.
- sens rock

Which list? And Ottawa has some good prospects now because of draft position.

Which list? And Ottawa has some good prospects now because of draft position.
- habby

2 top 10 draft picks in the last 5 years?

Other than cowen and zibenjad everyone has been taken 15th or later. Hardly because of draft position.

2 top 10 draft picks in the last 5 years?

Other than cowen and zibenjad everyone has been taken 15th or later. Hardly because of draft position.
- sens rock

I'm convinced. The Sens are in great hands.