Again you are making the mistake of a fan observer. You want to look at a deal in isolation as it relates to the team you follow. From Nashville's perspective the deal is pretty straight forward. They are able to move out Lombardi because they have Fisher. They move out Franson and they are able to move up their top prospect Jonathon Blum. They are a much better team with Fisher and Blum than with Lombardi and Franson.

It is easy to understand that Nashville is better because of the deal. But, how much better are the Leafs to add two more players that are very similar to what they already have on their roster?
- spatso

...how?

Fisher sucks now, the only reason they moved Lombardi was because they weren't sure he could play, and his contract wasn't insured... I can guarantee you they'd much rather have Lombardi ahead of Fisher on their depth chart than play Mike in their top-6.

So yeah, I wonder if the Leafs can make the playoffs.
- sanfordnson

maybe, as usual, it depends on the goaltending.

The bolded are better than Schenn... why? Luke's way better than any of them defensively- he's at least on par with any of them just because of his defensive game. As usual, you underrate the Leaf player just because he's a Leaf.

And high-end #1... Ever heard of Phaneuf?
- Schenn-Sational!

So as leaf GM you would not trade Schenn for Myers, if he was offered straight up?

So as leaf GM you would not trade Schenn for Myers, if he was offered straight up?
- Doppleganger

nope. Schenn destroys him defensively and physically, all Myers has on him is the offense side of things, and we have other guys to deal with that... and Myers wasn't even that great offensively last year, probably just a sophomore slump though.

nope. Schenn destroys him defensively and physically, all Myers has on him is the offense side of things, and we have other guys to deal with that... and Myers wasn't even that great offensively last year, probably just a sophomore slump though.
- Schenn-Sational!

This is the kind of comment that results in people not taking Leaf fans seriously. Myers is a number 1, not unreasonable to think that he may one day be a Norris nominee. Guys like Myers can help lead a team win a Stanley Cup. Schenn is a really good #2 and most teams would love to have him. But to suggest that you would rather have Schenn than Myers is just silly. Ideally you would love to have both. But if you had to choose just one, the choice would be pretty easy for objective evaluators.

Again you are making the mistake of a fan observer. You want to look at a deal in isolation as it relates to the team you follow. From Nashville's perspective the deal is pretty straight forward. They are able to move out Lombardi because they have Fisher. They move out Franson and they are able to move up their top prospect Jonathon Blum. They are a much better team with Fisher and Blum than with Lombardi and Franson.

It is easy to understand that Nashville is better because of the deal. But, how much better are the Leafs to add two more players that are very similar to what they already have on their roster?
- spatso

Their fans disagree. They should not be giving up a good, young 23 year-old D-man for garbage like Lebda and Slaney.

And Blum has nice upside, how does that make him better than Franson in 2011'?

And BTW-Nashville has a very weak offense. They could use both Fisher and Lombardi. It's not like their stacked with offensive talent.

This is the kind of comment that results in people not taking Leaf fans seriously. Myers is a number 1, not unreasonable to think that he may one day be a Norris nominee. Guys like Myers can help lead a team win a Stanley Cup. Schenn is a really good #2 and most teams would love to have him. But to suggest that you would rather have Schenn than Myers is just silly. Ideally you would love to have both. But if you had to choose just one, the choice would be pretty easy for objective evaluators.
- spatso

Yes, and that choice is Schenn. A #1 Shut down guy, like Schenn, will help you win the cup more often than a pure offense guy like Myers. Both are at a similar level though, so GMs would take the one their team needs more- If you need offense more, you take Myers, if you need Defense more, you take Schenn... but if you don't have any of either, you still take Schenn.

Their fans disagree. They should not be giving up a good, young 23 year-old D-man for garbage like Lebda and Slaney.

And Blum has nice upside, how does that make him better than Franson in 2011'?
- RogerRoeper

they're not objective though, not like the fair and unbiased spasto, who pretends to be a Leafs fan just to bash them

This is the kind of comment that results in people not taking Leaf fans seriously. Myers is a number 1, not unreasonable to think that he may one day be a Norris nominee. Guys like Myers can help lead a team win a Stanley Cup. Schenn is a really good #2 and most teams would love to have him. But to suggest that you would rather have Schenn than Myers is just silly. Ideally you would love to have both. But if you had to choose just one, the choice would be pretty easy for objective evaluators.
- spatso

I like Myers, but to call him a #1 is premature. Myers has been very weak defensively thus far in his career. If he was a Leaf, you'd be all over him for his giveaways.

...how?

Fisher sucks now, the only reason they moved Lombardi was because they weren't sure he could play, and his contract wasn't insured... I can guarantee you they'd much rather have Lombardi ahead of Fisher on their depth chart than play Mike in their top-6.
- Schenn-Sational!

Well it appears that Nashville thinks very differently about the matter. I thought Fisher was incredibly effective in the playoffs last year. You need to realize that people will mistrust your judgment when you continue to promote comparisons suggesting that Lombardi is better than Fisher, Schenn is better than Myers.

Well it appears that Nashville thinks very differently about the matter. I thought Fisher was incredibly effective in the playoffs last year. You need to realize that people will mistrust your judgment when you continue to promote comparisons suggesting that Lombardi is better than Fisher, Schenn is better than Myers.
- spatso

Lombardi had 53 points just 2 seasons ago. In fact, his career high of 53 points is exactly the same career high as Fisher. Fisher is overpaid and Nashville paid a lot for him because he's Carrie Underwood's husband.

You're underrating the abilities of Lombardi.

And again-Nashville's offense sucks, they could have used both guys.

We dumped Giguere on you
- FirstClass

Giguere is gone now, but you guys still have Blake.

Well it appears that Nashville thinks very differently about the matter. I thought Fisher was incredibly effective in the playoffs last year. You need to realize that people will mistrust your judgment when you continue to promote comparisons suggesting that Lombardi is better than Fisher, Schenn is better than Myers.
- spatso

Fisher was the better player, better defensively, better leader, better physically, but now he's breaking down. He reminds me of Tucker near the end of his career.

Nashville had to move Lombardi because of their finances, they couldn't afford to keep an uninsured contract that may not play. Burke took advantage of that.

I like Myers, but to call him a #1 is premature. Myers has been very weak defensively thus far in his career. If he was a Leaf, you'd be all over him for his giveaways.
- RogerRoeper

Look, I very seldom criticize the play of individual players. I tend to fairly patient with the growth of raw talent. For example, I hate the Kessel deal but I like the player. You have never heard me say anything negative about Kessel as a player. I Schenn as a player. I think he is a very strong #2 and has a long career ahead of him. Myers is a special talent and I believe he may one day be regarded as the top Dman in the league. If Myers has a problem with giveaways if is fairly minor compared to Karlsson (Ottawa) and Subban (Montreal) who are the other #1 Dmen learning their craft in the Northeast.

Schenn is a good player but you can never put him in the class of a Doughty (top #1 young guy) because he has an entirely different skill set. Myers, Karllson and Subban will all be measured against the Doughty yardstick. Right now I see Myers as the only kid in that group who has the potential to be better than Doughty.

Yes, and that choice is Schenn. A #1 Shut down guy, like Schenn, will help you win the cup more often than a pure offense guy like Myers. Both are at a similar level though, so GMs would take the one their team needs more- If you need offense more, you take Myers, if you need Defense more, you take Schenn... but if you don't have any of either, you still take Schenn.
- Schenn-Sational!

Schenn was minus 7 last season, while Myers was an even. Given his offensive numbers (37pts vs 22pts), most people would take Myers over Schenn..............but both are good players to have on your team, but clearly Myers has the advantage over Schenn.

Fisher was the better player, better defensively, better leader, better physically, but now he's breaking down. He reminds me of Tucker near the end of his career.

Nashville had to move Lombardi because of their finances, they couldn't afford to keep an uninsured contract that may not play. Burke took advantage of that.
- Schenn-Sational!

I thought Fisher was a beast in the playoffs last year.

Schenn was minus 7 last season, while Myers was an even. Given his offensive numbers (37pts vs 22pts), most people would take Myers over Schenn..............but both are good players to have on your team, but clearly Myers has the advantage over Schenn.
- Doppleganger

Myers played on a better team.

I like Myers, but to call him a #1 is premature. Myers has been very weak defensively thus far in his career. If he was a Leaf, you'd be all over him for his giveaways.
- RogerRoeper

If you were correct, then why was Schenn a minus 7 last season, while Myers was an even last season?

It is a good deal for Nashville. They move out $4.3m in salary and they get to move Blum up in their system and, at the same time, provide for Fisher who they took on before the trade deadline. Let's not forget that Nashville has one of the best young defense corps in the NHL. It is proving to be very expensive. Why would anyone in the West want to help Nashville dump salary? Not many teams in the East would be interested either. It was a unique set of circumstances that allowed the Leafs to do the deal. It might actually benefit the Leafs. But, in the larger scheme of things, I really don't think it is anything other than a summer salary dump. Nashville is a much better team because of the deal. The Leafs have added two more players who have a similar skill set to other guys already on the team.
- spatso

Saying the Leafs "might" benefit is moronic, They improved at 2 positions, if Lombardi plays hes an upgrade to Bozak in the scoring dept. And adding depth (or similar skillset as you put it) is a good thing, if someone goes down there is another player of similar skillset to step in.

Its so hard to read your posts.
Anything the leafs do = Negative
Anything other teams do = Positive

If your a leafs fan it must be a horrible existence

Myers played on a better team.
- RogerRoeper

First, I think you need to recognize that Buffalo was a better team partly because of Myers. Second, the comparison between Schenn and Myers is really meaningless. It is like trying compare an all star running back and an all star linebacker. If you want to compare a Leaf and a Sabre you might want to do a comparison between Phaneuf and Myers.

If you were correct, then why was Schenn a minus 7 last season, while Myers was an even last season?
- Doppleganger

Again-Myers played on a better team that's why.

It's like how Chara could have the best +/- in the league one year, then get traded to a cup contender and have the best in the league.

Saying the Leafs "might" benefit is moronic, They improved at 2 positions, if Lombardi plays hes an upgrade to Bozak in the scoring dept. And adding depth (or similar skillset as you put it) is a good thing, if someone goes down there is another player of similar skillset to step in.

Its so hard to read your posts.
Anything the leafs do = Negative
Anything other teams do = Positive

If your a leafs fan it must be a horrible existence
- senstroll

The comment regarding the fact that the Leafs might benefit is simply a reflection on what you just said. Lombardi is an upgrade on Bozak and Franson adds more depth at the 3-5 D position. I think that is all that I intended to say.

Again-Myers played on a better team that's why.

It's like how Chara could have the best +/- in the league one year, then get traded to a cup contender and have the best in the league.
- RogerRoeper

I agree +/- is a highly overrated statistic. A player that plays big minutes as a shut down D against the other teams top line cannot be compared with the guy who plays 8 minutes against the other teams 3rd and 4th line.

Again-Myers played on a better team that's why.

It's like how Chara could have the best +/- in the league one year, then get traded to a cup contender and have the best in the league.
- RogerRoeper

So let me get your logic straight...........players on worse teams are better players than those who play on better teams..............and that's why Schenn is better than Myers?

Schenn was minus 7 last season, while Myers was an even. Given his offensive numbers (37pts vs 22pts), most people would take Myers over Schenn..............but both are good players to have on your team, but clearly Myers has the advantage over Schenn.
- Doppleganger

yes, plus minus is such a valid stat