Nice troll attempt with the Price comment. Anyone who "expects" bonafide #1 goaltending out of a young goalie with 30ish games under his belt doesn't understand the game IMO
- gretzky

And anyone who interprets "it could have gone either way" as "expecting bonafide..." is a total moron.

Um, yeah, we easily could have expected more out of the goaltending. things were actually going quite well with Reimer before he got hit with a concussion. There were question marks, no doubt, and could have gone either way, but it undoubtedly went as bad as it could.

Think about it this way. The Habs got a career year out of Price last year. It went about as good as it possibly could. What would have happened if he had played like he has the rest of his career?
- prock

You could easily expect it to go either way if you are a moron. Two unproven goalies is a recipe for disaster. The leafs are performing exactly as expected.

x 2.

I said at the beginning of the season it was a huge gamble for Burke to bank on good goaltending between your current tandem. Reimer was simply too unproven. What surprises me is that after seeing how badly you needed goaltending all season, he never went out and got one.

A smart GM would keep Reimer around (might be really good down the road) and bring in an aging #1 (costs less than a young one) to keep you competitive while Reimer works through his growing pains. Almost all goalies seem to go through them and having a vet to teach him how to battle through would be helpful as well.

Reimer still may be a #1 down the road but let him have 2-3 years in a back up role and get comfortable with his consistency before using him as a 1A/1B.

Like the poster said, some things went wrong this season but a lot went right too. At the end of the day it's hard to blame any one thing on the poor season.

Burke needs to start being held accountable for the gambles he takes building a team though. Sure he has won some trades but also lost on others. One thing is for sure though, if you take a look at the ages of the Leaf's best players you can conclude that Burke has given you a relatively small window to win. When your best players are 24-28 you should be in win mode now because 3 years down the road those players will be past prime.

This is how old your top 10 scorers from this year will be by the time playoffs come around next year.

Kessel- 25
Lupul-29
Grabs-29
Bozak-27
Phaneuf-27
Macarthur- 27
Connolly-31
Kulemin- 26
Gardiner-22
Liles-32

With the exception of Gardiner, all of those players are either in their prime or towards the end of it.

So what happens in 2-3 years even if Burke builds the Leafs into a contender? By then your best players will be 30ish and likely past their prime.

And no offence, but other than Kadri there isn't a lot of hope for quality replacements in the top 6. Maybe on the 2nd line but in the next 2/3 years I wouldn't count on more than a prospect or two to have blossomed into a 50+ point player.

Many Leaf fans don't realize it yet but Burke has put the Leafs in a tougher position than most realize. Will they be a playoff team in the next 2-3 years? Likely. But I don't think Burke has a plan to get you past a fringe playoff team and into that "scary good" category that most cup winners fall into.
- gretzky

Exactly. Leaf fans go on about the average age being young but like you said the core is not exactly entering their prime and by the time they are competitive they will be UFA getting bigger deals or gone.

You could easily expect it to go either way if you are a moron. Two unproven goalies is a recipe for disaster. The leafs are performing exactly as expected.
- jordan456789

Ironically, it was Habs fans who called Price the next elite goalie of the future. Bahahahahaha.

How's Halak doing this year? Did you realize that halak has a better sv% every year of his career, short of last year, when he struggled with injury?

Exactly. Leaf fans go on about the average age being young but like you said the core is not exactly entering their prime and by the time they are competitive they will be UFA getting bigger deals or gone.
- jordan456789

Then there is the Habs, who have neither? A bunch of old, overpaid pieces of crap, without any good youth. And one decent prospect.

Awesome.

Then there is the Habs, who have neither? A bunch of old, overpaid pieces of crap, without any good youth. And one decent prospect.

Awesome.
- prock

See, now this may be the kind of comment that gets you in trouble. You could say the same thing in a more respectful manner. Do you not think it worthwhile to say things in a more constructive manner?

I am guessing that the Leafs are struggling again this evening and you are allowing your frustration to spill over into your commentary.

See, now this may be the kind of comment that gets you in trouble. You could say the same thing in a more respectful manner. Do you not think it worthwhile to say things in a more constructive manner?

I am guessing that the Leafs are struggling again this evening and you are allowing your frustration to spill over into your commentary.
- spatso

No matter how some idiots will try to spin it and sound intelligent, its better having a younger team than older one. Have several players on the downside of their career is bad. How can anyone possibly argue differently?

He's only trying to argue differently because his own team is so completely phucked with the number of declining veterans, and lack of decent youth they have.

No matter how some idiots will try to spin it and sound intelligent, its better having a younger team than older one. Have several players on the downside of their career is bad. How can anyone possibly argue differently?

He's only trying to argue differently because his own team is so completely phucked with the number of declining veterans, and lack of decent youth they have.
- prock

I tend to generally agree with your analysis. But, you need to say it in a more respectful way. It is not enough to be right. There is a need to say things in a right way.

I tend to generally agree with your analysis. But, you need to say it in a more respectful way. It is not enough to be right. There is a need to say things in a right way.
- spatso

Sorry, not here to make you feel better.

Exactly. Leaf fans go on about the average age being young but like you said the core is not exactly entering their prime and by the time they are competitive they will be UFA getting bigger deals or gone.
- jordan456789

What about the Habs core then?

Sorry, not here to make you feel better.
- prock

This is far too trivial. Simply not an adequate response. Do you actually think you can say something that would hurt my feelings? Why would I give that power to you or anybody else?

This is about the need of saying things in a meaningful and respectful way so that people will put the effort into trying to understand your point of view. If you value your opinions you will take the time to reason in a manner that will encourage
People to want to take you seriously. I try to take you seriously, even when you choose to disrespect yourself.

This is far too trivial. Simply not an adequate response. Do you actually think you can say something that would hurt my feelings? Why would I give that power to you or anybody else?

This is about the need of saying things in a meaningful and respectful way so that people will put the effort into trying to understand your point of view. If you value your opinions you will take the time to reason in a manner that will encourage
People to want to take you seriously. I try to take you seriously, even when you choose to disrespect yourself.
- spatso

Do you feel you've earned my respect?

Do you feel you've earned my respect?
- prock

You cannot offer something up if you do not possess it within yourself. I am capable of respecting you. I can search within you to value the person that you are. Maybe I am able to like you more than you are able to value yourself. If you are unable to respect me, it says more about your feelings towards yourself and has little to do with me.

You cannot offer something up if you do not possess it within yourself. I am capable of respecting you. I can search within you to value the person that you are. Maybe I am able to like you more than you are able to value yourself. If you are unable to respect me, it says more about your feelings towards yourself and has little to do with me.
- spatso

What do you feel you've done to earn peoples respect here?

What do you feel you've done to earn peoples respect here?
- prock

More than two season's ago on October 2, I started a thread entitled "Leaf Agony." What I said in the initial post has turned out to be highly accurate. I have been consistent and faithful in my opinions. I value my thinking and, of course, that is the essence of self respect. I said,


"First, I must admit that I am already prejudiced against Burke for dealing the two first round picks of Kessel. So, my judgement may be clouded by my strong bias against dealing any high picks let alone two first rounders. But, I had an even a more terrible feeling coming out of last night's game. The Leafs could not protect a one goal lead against a pretty weak Montreal team. Schenn looked shaky, I am not sure what I think of Komisarek and Toskala, certainly, did not look elite. I start to worry and catastrophize the situation. I wonder if this team may be setting up to give Chiarelli a spectacular gift at next year's draft?

However, over the long haul of the season I do not believe the Leafs can be as weak as Montreal. Small forwards up front and not much team speed. Big slow D-men who really struggle with the puck. How do you end up with a slow small team in today's NHL? I am certain the Leafs will finish ahead of the Canadiens, but, will it be enough to justify Burke's strategy?."

More than two season's ago on October 2, I started a thread entitled "Leaf Agony." What I said in the initial post has turned out to be highly accurate. I have been consistent and faithful in my opinions. I value my thinking and, of course, that is the essence of self respect. I said,


"First, I must admit that I am already prejudiced against Burke for dealing the two first round picks of Kessel. So, my judgement may be clouded by my strong bias against dealing any high picks let alone two first rounders. But, I had an even a more terrible feeling coming out of last night's game. The Leafs could not protect a one goal lead against a pretty weak Montreal team. Schenn looked shaky, I am not sure what I think of Komisarek and Toskala, certainly, did not look elite. I start to worry and catastrophize the situation. I wonder if this team may be setting up to give Chiarelli a spectacular gift at next year's draft?

However, over the long haul of the season I do not believe the Leafs can be as weak as Montreal. Small forwards up front and not much team speed. Big slow D-men who really struggle with the puck. How do you end up with a slow small team in today's NHL? I am certain the Leafs will finish ahead of the Canadiens, but, will it be enough to justify Burke's strategy?."
- spatso

And you think this earns you respect?

And you think this earns you respect?
- prock

You clearly do not understand concepts or meaning related to respect. Is it better for a King to be feared or loved? Respect only has value when translated into the currency of the person offering the opinion. If a thief offers me respect as an honest man than my honor may be suspect. However, if a defeated opponent refuses to respect me, it says more about him and only adds to my honor.

What about the Habs core then?
- RogerRoeper

I was commenting on how the leafs are not in as good of a position that people think. Habs core is in the same position but the one thing the habs have over the leafs is Price.

I was commenting on how the leafs are not in as good of a position that people think. Habs core is in the same position but the one thing the habs have over the leafs is Price.
- jordan456789

First, Price aint that great. Mediocre starting goalie. Second, I can name ten things the Leafs have that the Habs don't.

Price is a top 10 starter.

First, Price aint that great. Mediocre starting goalie. Second, I can name ten things the Leafs have that the Habs don't.
- prock

Really? Care to elaborate or usual Prock homerism with nothing to back it up?

First, Price aint that great. Mediocre starting goalie. Second, I can name ten things the Leafs have that the Habs don't.
- prock

You need to realize that this is the kind of response that have caused me and other serious Leaf fans to turn against the koolaid drinkers. Last year the koolaid drinkers beat up on the Oilers, they kept telling themselves were okay, we are better than the terrible Oilers. But when it became apparent the Oilers were building a young exciting team the koolaid drinkers shifted to claiming the Leafs were okay because they were better than the Senators who were just a terrible team.

Now that the Senators have stuffed that message down the throats of the koolaid drinkers they shift once again and claim we are better than the Canadiens. It is entirely ludicrous to say that Price is not a top notch goalie. He will start at the Olympics for Team Canada. But, it is no more crazy to say this than to say that Spezza is an overpaid player who would not be wanted by the Leafs or Karlsson was an overhyped player who would have difficulty finding a spot on the Leaf defensive roster or saying the Oiler talent was overrated.

This is about trying to find something worse than us so we do not have to directly address our own flaws. As long as we can pretend and tell ourselves that somebody is worse than we are we don't have to take responsibility to fix ourselves. This is the essence of my frustration with some of the posters on this site. You are not prepared to look at what the Oilers and Senators have done and learn from it. You are not prepared to embrace our own failings and move forward to fix our own mess.

Nice troll attempt with the Price comment. Anyone who "expects" bonafide #1 goaltending out of a young goalie with 30ish games under his belt doesn't understand the game IMO
- gretzky

every time a young unknown goaltender comes up from the AHL, and has some success, he is immediately seen by some fans, who forget Jim Carey, as the greatest goaltender in NHL history and that their team is now set in goal for the next decade.

In Reimer's case he played 35ish games in the 2010 2011 season, and was an unknown, and had some success.

But, just like Jim Carey, the NHL shooters learned his weaknesses and began to exploit them, and with Reimer, it was his glove-side. I've heard this from many sources, including P McGuire.

And now come the "P McGuire" doesn't know 5hit" posts.

First, Price aint that great. Mediocre starting goalie. Second, I can name ten things the Leafs have that the Habs don't.
- prock

I doubt you can even count to ten so go for it

I doubt you can even count to ten so go for it
- jordan456789

Well, let's see....

- 4 young, good NHL caliber D on the roster under the age of 25. 2 under the age of 22. The Habs have 1 under 25. 0 under 22.
- A 24 year old winger in the top 5 in goals in the league.
- 2 players with more than a point per game on the roster. Neither past the prime of their career. The Habs haven't had ANY, in years.
- An AHL team near the top of the league, with several prospects that could break into the NHL in the near future. At least 3 forwards and 2 D that stand a pretty strong shot in the near future. I don't think there is a single player on the basement Bulldogs roster that is likely to break onto an NHL roster in the near future. Man, they've already pushed a couple of guys from that roster to the NHL that have no business being in the NHL in the first place. It's funny.... The Leafs may get some players from their AHL roster next year.... If all goes well, the Bulldogs should get some players from the Habs roster. LOL.
- A Dman that finished in the top 5 in scoring in the OHL last year. Also a strong 2 way player. Top dman on the OHL winning team. played in 3 memorial cups, member of one Mem cup winning team.
- another Dman that was actually number one Dman on his Mem Cup participating team.
- another forward that finished in the top 20 in WHL scoring

Now, since you named one PLAYER, the above list has well over 10, closer to 15.

Now, I'm sure you're going to look at these, and say "You're kidding, right, who cares about a guy like Gardiner, he's no big deal". But you see, that's what came to mind when you mentioned Price. In his 4 full seasons as starter, he's cracked the top 10 in sv% ONCE, and was only 7th. Basically, if you're going to fit him in somewhere in some sort of a ranking, you're talking somewhere in the 15th range. And while that's respectable, it's nothing to write home about. So when you come on here, and say "yeah, but one thing the Leafs don't have is Carey Price", my reaction is "Who gives a shyt". In that sentence, if you were to replace Carey Price with, say, Henrik Lundvist, THEN I might actually say, you're right. But it's just an average starting goalie, that Habs fans have been hyping up and saying "he's gonna be the best, ONE DAY", for a few years now. He's almost 25 now. the Habs kept the wrong goalie. Halak is better, and they got crap for him. I don't care about Carey Price.

The reality is, the Habs roster is in shambles. It's full of overpaid not very good veterans. Their farm is in shambles. Their prospects are in shambles. The entire organization, from top to bottom, is junk right now. And I've been telling you this was coming for two years now. And the best you can come up with is "but one thing you don't have is Carey Price". Really????? Wow.