He's considered a solid prospect, usually top 40-50 in the NHL and future top 4 D-man at least.
- RogerRoeper

He was never considered top 40-50 on the ducks, trading to the leafs raised his profile but his talent didn't suddenly change.

let's just put it like this, the fact that websites like HFboards have Gardiner, ahead of Justin Schultz, who outperformed him, while being a sophmore on the same team, and winning conference defensive player of the year, it's just proof those people know very little about what's going on

If Ottawa could get rid of Kuba and Gonchar, they would take him in a second. The real question is, who would they prefer to have on their team over Franson?
- mfreedman

They'd have to package a good young player/prospect along with Kuba/Gonchar to get someone to take them..... Like, Franson.

Listen, your statement was not only stupid, but outright absurd. Trying to say he was the best goalie in Europe for many years is just plain idiotic. Honestly, think about that. He was flirting with playing B level pro hockey until just three years before he came over. The first of those years was the lockout, and he wouldn't have been in the top 20 of goalies that year. The year after that, he wasn't near the top of the Swiss league. In those first two years, Niklas Backstrom was completely destroying the Finnish league, and earned himself an NHL spot there. His last year, Hiller was named the top goalie in Switzerland, but if you like, I can easily name you 5 other goalies from other leagues through Europe that would put him to shame.

Of course, he's a great goalie now. Great on Burke for grabbing him, and Allaire for bringing him to where he is now.

Just face it, you got carried away and made a dumb comment.
- prock

Okay bravo, who was the best goalie in europe the year Hiller was being highly sought after, in coming to N.A?

You're mad? The Leafs prospects have looked great.
- RogerRoeper

I think the Leaf prospect will win tommorrow night. They have lots more experience in their line-up. But the Leafs probably do not have a talent equal to Zebanajad, da Costa, Rundblad, Cowen or Lehner.

They'd have to package a good young player/prospect along with Kuba/Gonchar to get someone to take them..... Like, Franson.
- prock

Kuba yes, Gonchar no. Kuba should be buried in the minors to keep rundblad and cowen up.

Are you telling me your GM made a snap decision about a prospect based on a short period of play?

I'd be pretty pissed if I were you, and my GM were giving up on prospects on the turn of a dime.
- prock

Hardly, a mediocre sophmore season, played a large role, then adding Sbisa and Fowler bumped him down the depth chart, then when u see his offense is directly tied to Schultz, and u see Vatanen dominating a mens league as a 19 year old, well it's pretty easy to get bypassed.

Bottom line, Gardiner was not developing like a top prospect, Justin Schultz doubled this guys production bro

I think the Leaf prospect will win tommorrow night. They have lots more experience in their line-up. But the Leafs probably do not have a talent equal to Zebanajad, da Costa, Rundblad, Cowen or Lehner.
- spatso

Why is Cowen some impact player? He's a poor man's Schenn with wonky knees.

Kuba yes, Gonchar no. Kuba should be buried in the minors to keep rundblad and cowen up.
- sens rock

You wouldn't take franson, a young defenseman with potential and an offensive upside over a guy, who was great offensively, but is terrible defensively, and at the end of his career?

I'm not talking about only for this year, I mean in general, you would have to take franson, wouldnt you?

I know, and Sens fans STILL can't get over it. Give it a rest, will you?

I don't think I've ever had a water cooler type conversation about the Sens, any Sens player, or anything like that, since those series. And it was just a chuckle then.

Get over it, it was so long ago.
- prock

It is important for you to believe that I was cheering for the Senators. Take some time, go to TML and go back in time and you will see something you do not want to acknowledge. Critical thinking requires objectivity. If your sole purpose is to function as an apologist for Leaf management you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself if you are happy with your choices.

Ask Preds fans if they're happy losing Franson and getting guys who had no future on the Leafs back.
- RogerRoeper

A dump is a dump.

Okay bravo, who was the best goalie in europe the year Hiller was being highly sought after, in coming to N.A?
- FirstClass

Arguable. Would you prefer 4 or 5 that fared better than Hiller?

Why is Cowen some impact player? He's a poor man's Schenn with wonky knees.
- RogerRoeper

He had knee surgery almost 3 years ago, and hasn't been injured since. Was also their best defenseman in the AHL playoffs, and has been their best player at rookie camp games.

A dump is a dump.
- spatso

So, like, Filatov to the Sens?

It is important for you to believe that I was cheering for the Senators. Take some time, go to TML and go back in time and you will see something you do not want to acknowledge. Critical thinking requires objectivity. If your sole purpose is to function as an apologist for Leaf management you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself if you are happy with your choices.
- spatso

I've already told you, I don't care what Sens fans were thinking/doing/whatever.

You wouldn't take franson, a young defenseman with potential and an offensive upside over a guy, who was great offensively, but is terrible defensively, and at the end of his career?

I'm not talking about only for this year, I mean in general, you would have to take franson, wouldnt you?
- mfreedman

I would trade Gonchar for Franson no problem. But he was saying that in order to trade those 2 players the sens would have to couple them with a decent prospect or young player. I agree with that for Kuba, but not Gonchar.

I would trade Gonchar for Franson no problem. But he was saying that in order to trade those 2 players the sens would have to couple them with a decent prospect or young player. I agree with that for Kuba, but not Gonchar.
- sens rock

Oh ok, misunderstood

Leaf fans forget, we dumped the useless Joffrey Lupul on them, he was a 4 million dollar third liner for us.

Arguable. Would you prefer 4 or 5 that fared better than Hiller?
- prock

Who was better and more sought after at the time? there is a reason several teams wanted him,and unlike that punk Gustavsson he was willing to spend time in the minors to adjust to N.A hockey. The leafs just wanted Gustavsson so bad they didn't develop him properly to NA hockey

It's true. They're stuck smack in the middle of two bigger, better Canadian cities, that have hockey teams that are better, and they've never managed to succeed over, with fans that fill THEIR arena when the teams play, and they like to think we hate them, because it makes them feel a little less insignificant.
- prock

There is a study at the University of Manchester about 15 years ago and it dealt with the notion of fans of other teams who had the need the try and trivialize the accomplishments of rivals. It turns out that the study concluded that it involved a significant feeling of inadequacy on the part of the hostile advocate. Individuals on the other hand who felt critical towards the team they supported often exhibited stong feeling of potency (eg Yankee fans). The study also noted that some of the male fans felt diminished when their team did not succeed.

I don't know where Franson is getting all this praise from. He was 7th in TOI/g for Nashville and was over taken by Blum who was a rookie.

How in gods green earth are the sens elite for that period but the leafs mediocre? The leafs had more playoff wins in that period than the sens.
- burn

Duh! The Leafs have not been in the playoffs!

how many times must i tell u, Gardiner got passed by FOUR players, in under a year on the org. depth chart! Bob Murray said as much when he traded him. Gardiner was never going to pass Fowler, Schultz or Vatanen as PMD's in our system
- FirstClass

This is a pure kool aid issue. You can repeat that as many times as you want but the green guys will just drink more kool aid and honestly believe that it could not be true.

Leaf fans forget, we dumped the useless Joffrey Lupul on them, he was a 4 million dollar third liner for us.
- FirstClass

We dumped Jason Blake on you.

Beauchemin is a GOOD 2nd pairing dman, who Scott Niedermayer made look like a top pairing player.
with us we do not ask him to do what he's not good at, he will play with Fowler this year and continue being a stablizing force.

You constantly tell us how "everyone" thinks Gardiner is a great prospect, not even his own college coach thought he was!
- FirstClass

I actually thought he played a good game against the Hawk prospects. But his coach (Eakins) said he was not a fan of his decision making.

They regularly finished ahead of them in the standings as well, in the regular season as well. The only thing the Sens have over that period is a finals appearance, basically every other comparison between the two teams is a win for the Leafs.

Only one of the four series beatings of the Sens was an upset. The other three, the Leafs were the higher seeded team.
- prock

I think you forget that in all those series in the previous century the Leafs were higher rated because they were a better team. Nobody disputes that. However when the Leaf began their decline and finally fell right out of the playoff race is when the Senators were recognized as an elite team. Did the Leafs ever play against the Senators where Spezza was the #1 center with Heatley. I don't think so. In fact, I think that Spezza may have played against the Leafs as a call up from the minors during the playoffs but not as a regular.