John Jaeckel: Where do we go from here?

Tough sell for trade's. What commodities have value that wouldn't hurt the team by losing them? Draft picks are only going to get you so much.
Unfortunately I am starting to believe this team is between a "rock" and a "hard place". Not good enough to make any noise in the playoffs(if they make it) And to good to expedite a re-build of sorts

I don't think Q would be fired ,moved upstairs ambassador of the game consultant or something .Dineen I believe would run more mandatory practice ,this team needs more time on the ice not less ,Not bag skates but working on the PP PK Fundamentals of the game .. Put DBC with Kane and Schmaltz AA the wing with Toews and Saad .Send down a dman and Kero and Bring back Vinny !!

I’d like to see Hayden get more ice time, the kid has been working his butt off and there is obviously some talent there.

ONLY chance this team has is it's better than what they now appear to be, young guys will improve, chemistry will develop. No move is gonna be the panacea if what we're witnessing is what the Hawks really are. Vinnie isn't turning the trainwreck into anything great. Maybe he'll be a "part" of a good team, but the players there have to produce. I don't know if this is just a crummy start or the team actually does suck. I guess time will tell. But it has been some poor hockey and since the first two games the Hawks have been literally one of the worst teams in the NHL.

JJ what trades could the hawks make and who would they target. Biggest question is what does hawks need another center who can win faceoffs top 4 d man puck mover leddy type with the ability to quarterback the pp or another big forward with size and speed. All are hard to get. Hawks should not wait to long then your in no man's land, just my opinion. Firing Q ok may work no idea if that would work dineen in charge of pp just sucks so he takes over what changes or do the hawks futher up and reliveve bowman of his duties ( which should ve happen in the offseason my opinion). And last just ride it out and hope they right the ship wait and see. Again congrats to you JJ on your new job.

Willie Mays got old. Michael Jordan got old. Bobby Hull got old. The Blackhawks today have several aging players. Like it or not, it's not 2010. Heck, it's not 2013.

No, Towes is not a "bum". Nor is Seabrook. But, there's no denying Toews is NOT the same player he was, even 3 years ago. Besides, any player making $10.5 million, shouldn't need a stud like Saad to make HIM better. Toews should make other wingers he plays with better.

It was apparent to my eye even last year Seabrook was skating like he's pulling a freight train. He's get beat way too often today.

Is Q to blame--or partly to blame? Maybe. Maybe part of the blame rests with Q. But, the coach doesn't "play". He only puts out the best 18 skaters he has.
On the other hand, do the hawks need to practice more? Absolutely. Esp. the power play.
For years, Q has had top shelf talent, playing at their prime, so he had short, easy practices. That isn't the case today. He has aging players skating with young guys who need as much practice together as they can get.

I place the majority of the "blame" for this current team on Stan's doorstep. He handed out this ridiculous contracts. Would anyone sign Seabrook to FIVE more years--TODAY? The AA contract was equally baffling.
The contracts and trades full squarely on Stan.

Going forward....you can either stay the course, and likely miss the playoffs. Or, squeak in and get bounced in the first round again.
Or, you can start planning for the future--right now. And, move some of the sacred cows that still have value.
What's a better scenario....losing with Toews, Seabrook, Keith, etc...and having no young talent to take their place? Or, losing WITHOUT some of those guys now, but having the chance at rebuilding with picks and prospects?

Rocky and McDounough won;t like either scenario....because it will mean lean years and fewer butts in the seats.

Yeah and the team failures to convert on PP at key points in games. Powerplay goal in the last few games would've turned these games around. I am more worried about the fact the hawks have seem to lost their ability to comeback in any game. In previous, cup runs use to be like ah they will come back from this two goal deficit.

But it really comes down to two questions. Does this team have the skill and talent to win a championship? or is this a failure of a system? That is the question the upper management needs to make a decision before the losses start to hurt the outcome of the season. Hope they turn it around and this was just a small bump in the road because we usually save these extend losing streaks in January. So we might be having a hot streak then who knows.

I am usually a seabrook fan, but maybe a healthy scratch of seabrook would wake this team up?

OH BUT WE DOMINATED AT THE DOT YESTERDAY! Yay for small victories!

I’d like to see Hayden get more ice time, the kid has been working his butt off and there is obviously some talent there.
- DarthKane

I agree the short handed chances he is making are incredible. Should've had two... god dam post.

great right up JJ, gonna miss them.
couldn't agree more with the exception of a coaching move.
i certainly wouldn't be replacing Q with Dineen,( even tho i'm more on the side that Q has lost or is losing this teams ear) right now he's part of the problem.
an absolutely horrendous PP that could have made a difference in all the recent loses and to the psyche of the entire team, he shouldn't be rewarded a head coaching job by default.
Toews still has some game but he's definitly not the player he was even 2+ years ago.
Also definitely not worth 10.5mil per but tell me who would trade that for the 3 stanely cups he help bring this fan base. Every hockey fan on earth would trade that for 3 cups in 6 years to their favorite team.
Seabrook is a harder pill to swallow, even with his OT magic of the cup runs. he's decline has been very fast and noticeable. at this point he's a mixed bag on most nights. Good, ok then bad but more ok and bad than good. At 6.85mil till 2024, thats handcuffing this team for years to come unless you can unload him somehow.

This team needs a jolt for sure, whether all be it from call ups, benching, firing or trades. this can't continue for even the next ten games. catch up in this league is to difficult. i personally think this team could be one to do that but i wouldn't wanna leave that to chance.

Or, you can start planning for the future--right now. And, move some of the sacred cows that still have value.
What's a better scenario....losing with Toews, Seabrook, Keith, etc...and having no young talent to take their place? Or, losing WITHOUT some of those guys now, but having the chance at rebuilding with picks and prospects?


- tompo1015

Who is going to give you anything for Toews or Seabrook? NO ONE wants them at those contacts. This is an unwinnable situation. Keith and maybe Kane are your only two truly marketable players. And it would be hard to move Kane at 10.5...only Keith I think is marketable, but you only trade him at the TDL when the Hawks are out and someone needs that last piece for a run, THEN You could probably get a nice haul for him. But the other players are either not very good (Anisimov) or are grossly overpaid (Toews, Seabs). And Crow really has a limited market.

100% on Mr. No Trade Clause Bowman. End of rant.

..funny these teams that were supposed to be on the top are struggling (including mine! )Edmonton. .montreal ..But Chicago is well positioned with some elite talent.it has all the ingredients for a contending team..elite center Toews ..elite winger kane..elite dman Keith and top tier goaltender. .check! And Q.and company will iron out the wrinkles soon enough ..your guys thanksgiving is usely the barometer for gauging and evaluation of the respective teams..Chicago will be there no question come spring . .but depth might be a factor come. .that can be addressed at the deadline? Also maybe managing mins on the backend. .seabs? .I've heard he's slowed a step or two?.and I hope that hartman continues to grow as a player. .always like him!..I wished that Luo would of traded jvr last year for him ..best of luck with the rest of the way ..P.S.how's sharp been?..he'll be valuable come playoff time imho. .hopefully!

You're wrong... they would benefit from a coaching change and who says it has to be internal? Too many scared cows on this team including Q.

And you can write articles till you're blue in the face about how Dcat or Hini should be up or should it be Forsling...or Kempny? The bottom line is it won't make a damn bit of difference.

The real issue is the core, the high salaries and the poor performance and the NMC...and the coaching. Till those pieces are moved whether it's for picks or just salary dumps this team is going nowhere.

Any talk about anything else is just lip service...

Willie Mays got old. Michael Jordan got old. Bobby Hull got old. The Blackhawks today have several aging players. Like it or not, it's not 2010. Heck, it's not 2013.

No, Towes is not a "bum". Nor is Seabrook. But, there's no denying Toews is NOT the same player he was, even 3 years ago. Besides, any player making $10.5 million, shouldn't need a stud like Saad to make HIM better. Toews should make other wingers he plays with better.

It was apparent to my eye even last year Seabrook was skating like he's pulling a freight train. He's get beat way too often today.

Is Q to blame--or partly to blame? Maybe. Maybe part of the blame rests with Q. But, the coach doesn't "play". He only puts out the best 18 skaters he has.
On the other hand, do the hawks need to practice more? Absolutely. Esp. the power play.
For years, Q has had top shelf talent, playing at their prime, so he had short, easy practices. That isn't the case today. He has aging players skating with young guys who need as much practice together as they can get.

I place the majority of the "blame" for this current team on Stan's doorstep. He handed out this ridiculous contracts. Would anyone sign Seabrook to FIVE more years--TODAY? The AA contract was equally baffling.
The contracts and trades full squarely on Stan.

Going forward....you can either stay the course, and likely miss the playoffs. Or, squeak in and get bounced in the first round again.
Or, you can start planning for the future--right now. And, move some of the sacred cows that still have value.
What's a better scenario....losing with Toews, Seabrook, Keith, etc...and having no young talent to take their place? Or, losing WITHOUT some of those guys now, but having the chance at rebuilding with picks and prospects?

Rocky and McDounough won;t like either scenario....because it will mean lean years and fewer butts in the seats.
- tompo1015

There are a lot of places to lay blame.

Outrageous success - which means you had to reward players - stars and roll players - if only to keep your cred with future free agents, your college draftees, etc. plus your fan base, who (recently returned from the wilderness, probably wouldn’t understand getting into salary fights with the new hero’s.

The stagnant revenues (and tanking Looney), leading to a stagnant cap.

Certainly, some bad decisions by Stan - AND Q - probably led on by Rocky and McD.

Happenings like Bickell’s illness (what could he have been down to today?) cost them Bickell AND TT (a useful player). Although the franchise had certainly been lucky in terms of health.

Yeah, I guess, blame Stan - assisted by somewhat unique circumstances.

When the boat is sinking.... The coach is the first to be let go.... If still no results than Toews , Seabrook, AA, should be traded even if it means that Stan has to eat 30% of the individuals contract.

I was one of the people who wondered if Q lost the room. I don't know that answer, because I'm not in that room. I just see a team that is less engaged than ever before. That is usually on management/coaching when that happens. And I'm the last person to suggest who should replace him if that is the course of action.

That said, I don't know what injuries people are playing with, either. I give players the benefit of the doubt if they aren't playing as before, because there is no way Toews forgot how to play hockey at age 29. I wouldn't be surprised if Seabrook is dealing with something, either. Does age 32 really mean a D can't skate anymore? In the previous thread, JJ told me that AA was playing through an injury. That means he's untradable for the time being. Lost in the shuffle is that he is doing much better at the dot these days, though I will leave that to someone else on here to determine if it's because he's facing less top 6 centers now as he plays on the third line.

It's clear they miss Hossa, and it's unfair to think that Panik or anybody else can fill his skates. I think they miss Hammer, too. I believed from the moment that Hammer for Murphy and Dauphin trade was made, the Hawks became a worse team in the short term, and that realizing a win in this trade would not happen overnight, if it was going to happen at all. Murphy is a work in progress, and I have no idea what Dauphin will turn into, if anything. So those two big developments hurt this team a lot short term. Let's not lose sight of that. Rutta appears to be found money for the Hawks, at least, so not all is bad, anyway.

If there's one guy I might shop, it would be Panik. He is also found money, since it only cost Morin to get him. I don't see him being a 200 foot guy, and that's what's expected of a RW on the Toews line if his name is not Patrick Kane. Every time he scores, Stan should be picking up the phone. From my armchair here, Panik screams "sell high candidate." So I agree with DarthKane that Hayden deserves something better, and I would try him at 1RW. I don't think he had his best outing last night, but I like what I've seen from him overall.

All I got for now.

>>>But a team that plays at times as lethargically and dispassionately as this Hawk team has probably would benefit from a jolt to the system.<<<

this has been a problem since winning in 2015...they got it in gear largely on crawfords big pads to put together a nice winning streak last year; something they tend to do every year and then coast...

but more often and not there is a period or 2 where they just throw it in low gear, sometimes they survive it..more often they dont.

since clinching the WC last year they are 5-13-2...with basically the same roster and MO.

they get beat with teams who play a structure and force everything the hawks do to the boards...now aves don't play anything remote to structured hockey but they got up early and hawks once again biffed on the pp

When the boat is sinking.... The coach is the first to be let go.... If still no results than Toews , Seabrook, AA, should be traded even if it means that Stan has to eat 30% of the individuals contract.
- spanky

The good news is that we do not have to hear the excuse that the Hawks had a long playoff run the last 2 or 3 seasons, and as such are a little tired and it shows.

It is time to say goodbye to Coach Q. You can not replace huge part of the roster and especially the big contracts.

JJ knows I respect him but I philosophically disagree with him in regards to his take on young players and prospects. It is a given that not all young players with potential pan out. But it is also a given, in our modern salary cap era, that all successful teams find ways to bring along young players, in a variety of roles.

The Hawks under Q have won 3 stanley cups, that can not be refuted. Those teams were easily top to bottom the most talented teams in the NHL

Last season both Pittsburg and Nashville had early season injuries that forced them to bring along younger players, who in the end, were needed if the teams were to make long playoff runs. IF Duncan Keith were hurt like Letang last year, Q would have tied a number 2 ribbon around the tree and so would the fan base.

Right now, and often in the prior seasons, the team does not struggle because of depth players, it struggles when its core players do not lead and produce. It is that simple.

There is a very fine line between being elite and being an average NHLer, we have been blessed in Chicago to see so many super stars play at such a high level for so long, and now, when everything is reverting to a long term mean, it is humbling.

It is no surprise to anyone that Q will roll out a Rosival, Brunette and my favorite JJ descriptive, 3 wheel jewel carts, instead of bringing along a younger player. You have to bring them along or you will not get where you want to go in the playoffs. And yes, JJ is right, maybe the cast we have the Forslings, Kempny's ADB's etc...may not get us to the promised land, but they have a much better chance then the shopping cart brigade.

We have to have patience and stick with some of these younger guys and let the group gel. It is a different league. Younger players are far more mature than they were generations ago. The game is 100 times faster than it ever has been, and all the young players are able to move at high speed, that is not a preference in the league any more, it is pre requisite. Think I am wrong, re watch the 4 and out vs nashville last year, or any number of games early this season.

So maybe we give them another couple of weeks to work things out, but if things do not change, adios Q. Like Pittsburg, who meandered for a few years after Bylsma, rejuvenate the program with someone new.

Who is going to give you anything for Toews or Seabrook? NO ONE wants them at those contacts. This is an unwinnable situation. Keith and maybe Kane are your only two truly marketable players. And it would be hard to move Kane at 10.5...only Keith I think is marketable, but you only trade him at the TDL when the Hawks are out and someone needs that last piece for a run, THEN You could probably get a nice haul for him. But the other players are either not very good (Anisimov) or are grossly overpaid (Toews, Seabs). And Crow really has a limited market.
- kwolf68

Defencemen like Duncan Keith rarely get traded and only if their contract allows it or he really wants out.

But if he became available, Mike Babcock would walk to Chicago from Toronto to pick him up because I'm sure he doesn't see as many deficiencies in his declining game that the posters here do.

Ok, so vinny and highmore are gonna turn this team around?kids, whom tsj constantly rails against, are gonna save this hot mess?
Ur mailing it in brother... 2 words...
Greg fox
Don't go away mad.....

The good news is that we do not have to hear the excuse that the Hawks had a long playoff run the last 2 or 3 seasons, and as such are a little tired and it shows.

It is time to say goodbye to Coach Q. You can not replace huge part of the roster and especially the big contracts.

JJ knows I respect him but I philosophically disagree with him in regards to his take on young players and prospects. It is a given that not all young players with potential pan out. But it is also a given, in our modern salary cap era, that all successful teams find ways to bring along young players, in a variety of roles.

The Hawks under Q have won 3 stanley cups, that can not be refuted. Those teams were easily top to bottom the most talented teams in the NHL

Last season both Pittsburg and Nashville had early season injuries that forced them to bring along younger players, who in the end, were needed if the teams were to make long playoff runs. IF Duncan Keith were hurt like Letang last year, Q would have tied a number 2 ribbon around the tree and so would the fan base.

Right now, and often in the prior seasons, the team does not struggle because of depth players, it struggles when its core players do not lead and produce. It is that simple.

There is a very fine line between being elite and being an average NHLer, we have been blessed in Chicago to see so many super stars play at such a high level for so long, and now, when everything is reverting to a long term mean, it is humbling.

It is no surprise to anyone that Q will roll out a Rosival, Brunette and my favorite JJ descriptive, 3 wheel jewel carts, instead of bringing along a younger player. You have to bring them along or you will not get where you want to go in the playoffs. And yes, JJ is right, maybe the cast we have the Forslings, Kempny's ADB's etc...may not get us to the promised land, but they have a much better chance then the shopping cart brigade.

We have to have patience and stick with some of these younger guys and let the group gel. It is a different league. Younger players are far more mature than they were generations ago. The game is 100 times faster than it ever has been, and all the young players are able to move at high speed, that is not a preference in the league any more, it is pre requisite. Think I am wrong, re watch the 4 and out vs nashville last year, or any number of games early this season.

So maybe we give them another couple of weeks to work things out, but if things do not change, adios Q. Like Pittsburg, who meandered for a few years after Bylsma, rejuvenate the program with someone new.
- TrueGrit

Look who the cat dragged in??!!

Ok, so vinny and highmore are gonna turn this team around?kids, whom tsj constantly rails against, are gonna save this hot mess?
Ur mailing it in brother... 2 words...
Greg fox
Don't go away mad.....
- dpard

Am I the only one that never understands a damn thing you say???

Maybe, just maybe, the Hawks miss Hossa on the ice even more than we could have expected. Seabrook simply cannot keep up right now and Toews looks like a $6mil 2C in terms of playmaking with the puck and agility/speed with his feet.

Whatever, it's been a damn good run. Hopefully this is the low point of the year for the Hawks and they realize that they aren't the more talented team on the ice every night...so they have to work hard and work smart to get wins.

It's just baffling to me seeing the play of this team the last three weeks compared to games 1+2. That seems to come down to effort and execution. Typically, it's the coach who goes first in this type of scenario. Two more weeks of play like this and the Hawks will dig themselves a big hole in the division. Something's gotta give....