Jeremy Laura: Wings reassign Holl and Watson. Half of a good idea

I posed a response with what I believed to be corrections but I now am pretty sure I was mistaken, so post removed for now. I apologize for the error.

Anyway I would guess paper transaction to bank cap space in the short term, which could make it easier to acquire salary via trade later or put as much of Kane's performance bonus on this year's cap as possible.

Hoping Holl is back on Thursday. He played well and deserves to stay up for a while.
7-11 would put Gus back in PP action, give Petry a longer rest. Otherwise, Kasper deserves a look as well. He could be the spark to get this team going offensively!

Holl deserves to keep playing as he has played well both games no reason to take him out. Kasper also deserves to play as he was best player in every preseason game he played. Yzerman had his team already decided in August and the preseason meant nothing. We will have a hard time with continuous poor player management. Two more examples. Ghost should have been resigned as he ran the power play and trading walman and a second for nothing is mind boggling

I posed a response with what I believed to be corrections but I now am pretty sure I was mistaken, so post removed for now. I apologize for the error.

Anyway I would guess paper transaction to bank cap space in the short term, which could make it easier to acquire salary via trade later or put as much of Kane's performance bonus on this year's cap as possible.
- Sven22

No worries at all. You’ve been here from the start and have helped me to understand a lot of things better as I keep working at this. Believe it or not, we’re in year 5 since I was allowed to jump in. You may be right on the paper transaction. It is a headache with all the juggling. Honestly, I’m fine if Watson is reassigned but it feels like Holl has been (thought early on) a better fit with Edvinsson. Can put Petry on the 3rd line when he’s ready. Not sure what to do with the logjam

Holl has surprisingly played very well. Everyone is watching the guy, and he has done well. Hoping to see another awesome Talbot performance in the next game!

Holl deserves to keep playing as he has played well both games no reason to take him out. Kasper also deserves to play as he was best player in every preseason game he played. Yzerman had his team already decided in August and the preseason meant nothing. We will have a hard time with continuous poor player management. Two more examples. Ghost should have been resigned as he ran the power play and trading walman and a second for nothing is mind boggling
- saintdog19

Kind of answering you and Henry Hockey at the same time. I agree that Holl has been a pleasant surprise. If this is about playing the better option he should have grabbed that spot.

I miss Ghost, for sure. Never heard what happened in terms of the player and the team. He may have wanted a change in scenery, but if not it was a brutal loss. For Walman, I’ve spoken to one person who knew a little about the situation but it’s not really something that has legs enough to type up. Apart from speculation, so much revolved around Raymond and Seider and those deals took way too long to finish up (opinion). Edvinsson is starting to stand out on how he jumps into the play and skates. Enjoying watching him grow into the game

Kind of answering you and Henry Hockey at the same time. I agree that Holl has been a pleasant surprise. If this is about playing the better option he should have grabbed that spot.

I miss Ghost, for sure. Never heard what happened in terms of the player and the team. He may have wanted a change in scenery, but if not it was a brutal loss. For Walman, I’ve spoken to one person who knew a little about the situation but it’s not really something that has legs enough to type up. Apart from speculation, so much revolved around Raymond and Seider and those deals took way too long to finish up (opinion). Edvinsson is starting to stand out on how he jumps into the play and skates. Enjoying watching him grow into the game
- Jeremy Laura

GhostBear wanted a raise and a multi-year deal from the Wings. He was making $4.13M at the time. He went to FA and ended up in Carolina with 3 x $3.2M
He did have his 2nd best season here with 56 pts!

Jakub Vrana scored on his first shot in his return with the Capitals.

Holl (corrected) back on Detroit’s roster. Posting update that says it was a paperwork way of resetting the clock. Watson on the other hand not seeing the same recall:

Oct. 16: Detroit announced Holl has been recalled back to the NHL roster today, suggesting his brief demotion yesterday was solely to delay his waiver exemption expiring and to bank a bit of cap space. Watson wasn’t part of the announcement and remains on assignment to Grand Rapids, so his demotion may be more permanent.

*correction, Watson still heading to GR at this point. Only Holl was brought back

Both guys back on Detroit’s roster. Posting update that says it was a paperwork way of resetting the clock:

Oct. 16: Detroit announced Holl has been recalled back to the NHL roster today, suggesting his brief demotion yesterday was solely to delay his waiver exemption expiring and to bank a bit of cap space. Watson wasn’t part of the announcement and remains on assignment to Grand Rapids, so his demotion may be more permanent.
- Jeremy Laura

"Let's go Justin!"

Jakub Vrana scored on his first shot in his return with the Capitals.
- HenryHockey

Incidentally, it's kind of noteworthy to me that we traded for Vrana, then got rid of him, then signed basically his off-brand Dutch equivalent (Sprong), then walked away from him too.

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of valid reasons (both on-ice and, in at least Vrana's case and maybe both, off-ice) why the team may have decided to go another direction. But also, like -- if you think one-dimensional rush chance finishers with no other noteworthy skills aren't a good fit for the team, why keep acquiring them?

Anyone see that Dmitri Buchelnikov hit 24.54 mph skating acceleration this year in the KHL? That's almost a half mph faster than last year's fastest NHL player (Pospisil). That's a good sign!

Incidentally, it's kind of noteworthy to me that we traded for Vrana, then got rid of him, then signed basically his off-brand Dutch equivalent (Sprong), then walked away from him too.

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of valid reasons (both on-ice and, in at least Vrana's case and maybe both, off-ice) why the team may have decided to go another direction. But also, like -- if you think one-dimensional rush chance finishers with no other noteworthy skills aren't a good fit for the team, why keep acquiring them?
- Sven22

Sometimes when I think about how bad some trades been by the Wings (and Ilitch family), I'm reminded that the Tigers (and Ilitch family) sent Justin Verlander to Houston for Franklin Perez, who never made it to the majors, Daz Cameron (played < 3 years and a career .201 hitter, and Jake Rogers, a career .202 hitter, though he is a very good defensive catcher. To sweeten the pot to get these three future halls of famers, Detroit paid $10 million of Verlander's salary for the Astros.

No matter how bad some of the trades by the Wings have been, the Ilitch family can never top dumping a top 10 all-time starting pitcher and $10 million for a good defensive catcher.

Incidentally, it's kind of noteworthy to me that we traded for Vrana, then got rid of him, then signed basically his off-brand Dutch equivalent (Sprong), then walked away from him too.

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of valid reasons (both on-ice and, in at least Vrana's case and maybe both, off-ice) why the team may have decided to go another direction. But also, like -- if you think one-dimensional rush chance finishers with no other noteworthy skills aren't a good fit for the team, why keep acquiring them?
- Sven22

Just a quick add on Vrana, he went on waivers and no one took him. He had to go for a PTO. Whatever the issues were (I have a source but again, no first hand) he had to prove he could come back. Sprong asked for 3 x 3, Wings said no, spent the money elsewhere and he ended up taking sub 1 mil in VAN. There are bizarre situations around both players. In Sprong’s case, he misjudged the market. In Vrana’s case, everyone passed on him until he got that PTO

Sometimes when I think about how bad some trades been by the Wings (and Ilitch family), I'm reminded that the Tigers (and Ilitch family) sent Justin Verlander to Houston for Franklin Perez, who never made it to the majors, Daz Cameron (played < 3 years and a career .201 hitter, and Jake Rogers, a career .202 hitter, though he is a very good defensive catcher. To sweeten the pot to get these three future halls of famers, Detroit paid $10 million of Verlander's salary for the Astros.

No matter how bad some of the trades by the Wings have been, the Ilitch family can never top dumping a top 10 all-time starting pitcher and $10 million for a good defensive catcher.
- bluelineenforcer

I don’t think this is any kind of secret, but Mr. I, in his final days, was going crazy to get a World Series. A lot of bad moves. The family didn’t want to keep the team and I have a feeling it will change hands at some point. If you go to his biography, Mike was a minor league pitcher who blew out his shoulder. That’s when his father in law let him put a pizza oven in a bar in Garden City. They were broke and needed income. It turned out well but the Tigers just didn’t get him what he was looking for.

Just a quick add on Vrana, he went on waivers and no one took him. He had to go for a PTO. Whatever the issues were (I have a source but again, no first hand) he had to prove he could come back. Sprong asked for 3 x 3, Wings said no, spent the money elsewhere and he ended up taking sub 1 mil in VAN. There are bizarre situations around both players. In Sprong’s case, he misjudged the market. In Vrana’s case, everyone passed on him until he got that PTO
- Jeremy Laura

Yeah, that makes sense. I had sort of forgotten about Sprong overplaying his hand as a UFA. I probably would have balked at 3x3 too but 1x$975k is great value for the Canucks.

Yeah, that makes sense. I had sort of forgotten about Sprong overplaying his hand as a UFA. I probably would have balked at 3x3 too but 1x$975k is an absolute steal for the Canucks.
- Sven22

Absolutely. If he would have negotiated down to 2m they may have worked something out (though JB would likely be gone). I do feel for the guys who never hit the payday.

ESPN just put out their Team Prospect Rankings. Wings are #4 according to Rachel Doerrie.


4. Detroit Red Wings
The Red Wings have collected some top talent in recent drafts, giving them the fourth-most-valuable prospect pool.

Simon Edvinsson and Axel Sandin-Pelikka are both projected to be impactful top-four defenders in the next two years. William Willander and Shai Buium are two other candidates who could be depth defenders at the NHL level.

Michael Brandsegg-Nygard and Nate Danielson should become middle-six players, with Marco Kasper making the leap to the NHL lineup.

Both Sebastian Cossa and Trey Augustine are solid options in goal and provide the Red Wings with depth at the position.

Five of the players in the Red Wings pool are projected to be impactful NHL players, and three more are projected to be serviceable NHL depth. There is a lot to like about Detroit's future with the level of prospects they have at each position.

ESPN just put out their Team Prospect Rankings. Wings are #4 according to Rachel Doerrie.


4. Detroit Red Wings
The Red Wings have collected some top talent in recent drafts, giving them the fourth-most-valuable prospect pool.

Simon Edvinsson and Axel Sandin-Pelikka are both projected to be impactful top-four defenders in the next two years. William Willander and Shai Buium are two other candidates who could be depth defenders at the NHL level.

Michael Brandsegg-Nygard and Nate Danielson should become middle-six players, with Marco Kasper making the leap to the NHL lineup.

Both Sebastian Cossa and Trey Augustine are solid options in goal and provide the Red Wings with depth at the position.

Five of the players in the Red Wings pool are projected to be impactful NHL players, and three more are projected to be serviceable NHL depth. There is a lot to like about Detroit's future with the level of prospects they have at each position.
- DraftandDestroy

the future is so bright, I gotta wear shades!

ESPN just put out their Team Prospect Rankings. Wings are #4 according to Rachel Doerrie.


4. Detroit Red Wings
The Red Wings have collected some top talent in recent drafts, giving them the fourth-most-valuable prospect pool.

Simon Edvinsson and Axel Sandin-Pelikka are both projected to be impactful top-four defenders in the next two years. William Willander and Shai Buium are two other candidates who could be depth defenders at the NHL level.

Michael Brandsegg-Nygard and Nate Danielson should become middle-six players, with Marco Kasper making the leap to the NHL lineup.

Both Sebastian Cossa and Trey Augustine are solid options in goal and provide the Red Wings with depth at the position.

Five of the players in the Red Wings pool are projected to be impactful NHL players, and three more are projected to be serviceable NHL depth. There is a lot to like about Detroit's future with the level of prospects they have at each position.
- DraftandDestroy

It’s funny, outside of the different “bubbles” I actually hear some pretty complimentary stuff. We are now getting 19 and 20 year old kids on the ice that stick. Larkin was a break through under Kenny but it apparently took Z going in and telling he and babs Larkin needed to stay. I need to do some updates on ASP and MBN soon

ESPN just put out their Team Prospect Rankings. Wings are #4 according to Rachel Doerrie.


4. Detroit Red Wings
The Red Wings have collected some top talent in recent drafts, giving them the fourth-most-valuable prospect pool.

Simon Edvinsson and Axel Sandin-Pelikka are both projected to be impactful top-four defenders in the next two years. William Willander and Shai Buium are two other candidates who could be depth defenders at the NHL level.

Michael Brandsegg-Nygard and Nate Danielson should become middle-six players, with Marco Kasper making the leap to the NHL lineup.

Both Sebastian Cossa and Trey Augustine are solid options in goal and provide the Red Wings with depth at the position.

Five of the players in the Red Wings pool are projected to be impactful NHL players, and three more are projected to be serviceable NHL depth. There is a lot to like about Detroit's future with the level of prospects they have at each position.
- DraftandDestroy

To play devil's advocate:

The Wings have a lot of quality contributors in the prospect pool but do they have any future franchise players? Anybody even close to the level of a MacKinnon or Barkov or Kucherov or Makar or Fox?

We've said for years a team with Larkin as its best player is not a contender. Will any of these guys in the system today ever be significantly better than him?

My fear is that even if all of these draft picks (plus even Raymond and Seider) reach their projected ceilings our best case scenario is basically being the Carolina Hurricanes 2.0. No true stars, try to win through depth, shrewd signings, and excellent coaching.

I mean, it's not impossible to win a Cup that way but I still don't see a obvious path to being a top-8ish NHL team with the current pieces we have. I think we are going to either need a couple guys to massively exceed expectations, or Yzerman to make a massive score via free agency or trade somewhere down the line.

To play devil's advocate:

The Wings have a lot of quality contributors in the prospect pool but do they have any future franchise players? Anybody even close to the level of a MacKinnon or Barkov or Kucherov or Makar or Fox?

We've said for years a team with Larkin as its best player is not a contender. Will any of these guys in the system today ever be significantly better than him?

My fear is that even if all of these draft picks (plus even Raymond and Seider) reach their projected ceilings our best case scenario is basically being the Carolina Hurricanes 2.0. No true stars, try to win through depth, shrewd signings, and excellent coaching.

I mean, it's not impossible to win a Cup that way but I still don't see an obvious path to being a top-8ish NHL team with the current pieces we have. I think we are going to either need a couple guys to massively exceed expectations, or Yzerman to make a massive score via free agency or trade somewhere down the line.
- Sven22

I think my take has been fairly clear. To be any sort of contender we need another center at the same level as Larkin at least. I’m starting to see Seider continue to grow as he hits 22/23 into a presence that is a bit surprising as a dman. Edvinsson at 20 is skating, hitting and jumping into the plays. Raymond, though no goals, 3 points in his first 3 games with Kasper, Danielson, and Sandin-Pellikka in the wings. A reality is going to hit. When the team gets to the right point, trades are going to come into play. Florida won a cup with something like 4 homegrown picks. Vegas? Picked from a pool of players already in the NHL. We also have 2 goalies who look like they will be competing. Young. When Bert and Hronek were moved, the core age went back a couple years. Yzerman, as a player, wasn’t in top shape when the cups started coming. The surgery he had, from what I understand, is a nasty affair. We brought in Shanny, that was huge. The Russians came from all over. From insanely lucky daft to acquisition even from the military. Once the pieces are in the right place, part of this team is going to have to be bought/traded for. Tampa brought in players but had Stamkos, Hedman, Vas, Pointe etc. we get a high spot in the lottery and get knocked back. Some of the “best” of what’s in the pipeline will be bottom 6 with Seider and Eddy looking like a possible top pairing down the line. Opinion of course, but that day in this league seems inevitable

I think my take has been fairly clear. To be any sort of contender we need another center at the same level as Larkin at least. I’m starting to see Seider continue to grow as he hits 22/23 into a presence that is a bit surprising as a dman. Edvinsson at 20 is skating, hitting and jumping into the plays. Raymond, though no goals, 3 points in his first 3 games with Kasper, Danielson, and Sandin-Pellikka in the wings. A reality is going to hit. When the team gets to the right point, trades are going to come into play. Florida won a cup with something like 4 homegrown picks. Vegas? Picked from a pool of players already in the NHL. We also have 2 goalies who look like they will be competing. Young. When Bert and Hronek were moved, the core age went back a couple years. Yzerman, as a player, wasn’t in top shape when the cups started coming. The surgery he had, from what I understand, is a nasty affair. We brought in Shanny, that was huge. The Russians came from all over. From insanely lucky daft to acquisition even from the military. Once the pieces are in the right place, part of this team is going to have to be bought/traded for. Tampa brought in players but had Stamkos, Hedman, Vas, Pointe etc. we get a high spot in the lottery and get knocked back. Some of the “best” of what’s in the pipeline will be bottom 6 with Seider and Eddy looking like a possible top pairing down the line. Opinion of course, but that day in this league seems inevitable
- Jeremy Laura

One of my main underlying points here is that it's really really really hard to build a long-term contender without at least one or two players who are truly elite. And by that I mean a guy who would be considered one of the 10-15 best players in world; basically someone you would not be surprised to see finishing top 5 in Hart, Norris, or Vezina voting during their prime.

Superstars are huge for contending teams for many reasons, especially in the cap era, but two basic ones are:

(1) Talent distribution is not evenly distributed across the league; you're looking at basically the extreme right edge of a bell curve. The gap between Connor McDavid and the 10th or 15th best player in the world is probably greater than the gap between #15 and #100.

(2) Partly because of (1), the hard salary cap systematically undervalues franchise-caliber players relative to average top line players, especially when those superstars get locked in their AAVs for many years while the cap continues to go up.

Or think of it this way: A team with 6 Connor McDavids ($12.5m each) and $13m to spend on the remaining 14 roster spots would absolutely smoke a team with 9 Dylan Larkins ($8.7m each) and $9.7m to spend on the other 11 guys.

The Wings do not have an obvious franchise-level superstar anywhere on the roster or in the system. The ones with the best chance of getting there are Raymond and Seider, but neither are currently on that kind of trajectory. The team is also probably too good to be in the draft lottery anytime soon. So where is the next Red Wings superstar going to come from, and how long will it be until he arrives?

This is not to throw shade on the current prospect pool. I'm higher on MBN than probably most of the quasi-doomers here. I'm genuinely excited about ASP, who I think has first pairing potential. But is MBN going to be prime Henrik Zetterberg good? Is ASP going to be a serious Norris candidate? Will one of Cossa or Augustine be Shesterkin good? Never say never but those are all long shots.

If not, you're looking at basically the Carolina Hurricanes. And even the Hurricanes have Sebastien Aho, who none of the Wings' prospects currently project to be as good as.