Bill Meltzer: Quick Hits: Flyers Daily, TIFH

I'm obviously a Flyers fan, but I honestly don't track the young, up-and-coming players before or after the draft. So, I probably don't know as much about them as most everyone else here on this board.

However, what I think I can speak to - just like everyone else here - is the team's track record. When I was growing up during the 80's, the Flyers made the playoffs every year, won their division a number of times, and got to the SCF or conference finals a few times. No Cups, but they came damn close a couple of times. That's a competitive, contending team. If the GM of that team tells us what his mindset is on drafting or not drafting a certain player, then I would be more inclined to trust his judgement.

But the Flyers in the last 10+ years have not been contending. Only 4 playoff appearances in the last 12 years, and a current streak of 4 years and counting w/o making it. Only one playoff series win during that time. To my unexpert, fan eyes, that's nothing short of dismal, especially considering how consistently contending the Flyers *used* to be. So that means that the GM now has to prove to me that his drafting logic makes sense by actually getting the Flyers back to respectability. And yes, it means I won't know if DB was right/wrong about the 2024 draft until 2026/2027 at least... but because the track record hasn't been good lately, I just don't trust them (and it's not DB's fault what he inherited, but it is what it is). And I don't think I'm being unreasonable or over-critical... just build a good team now dagnabit - the Flyers are out in the wilderness - get 'em back to civilization for goodness' sake.

Sorry for ranting so long.
- copelal

There's been plenty longer and I understand what you are saying but a big part of the Flyers problems stem from holding on to the pre-salary cap era.

Almost 25 years ago John LeClair was making $9 mill/yr, or the equivalent of more than $15,487,095 in today's money. Better than the best players in the league make today. Quite simply they outspent other teams .. every .. year. to win every year. That was an option in that era but that method of competing is long gone.

The Flyers went 7 years without a 2nd round draft pick (1999-2005) because if they needed someone they would buy them from someone else, every year.

Keith Jones played during that era before the salary cap and Briere was almost 30 when it came into effect. Think about that, the first time Keith Jones ever had to seriously think about the Salary Cap in 55 years was last year, as one of the men in charge.

Think about that. Heading into Briere's 2nd full season, overseeing 2 offseasons already, the Flyers remain the 3rd worst cap situation in the league at -803,000, refusing to fully rebuild because they want to win now.

They have been bad for a long time and for the fans who see other teams be become bad and come out the other side it looks like they are rebuilding but they continue to plug holes in the boat instead of letting it sink so it can be rebuilt.

The Flyers have not changed their ways, at the core, since the cap came about which is why Holmgren had a few successful years until he spent every cap dollar and every draft pick and left Hextall a wasteland. Hextall cleaned it up but hadn't built a winner so in came "bias for action" where they spent every resource to win, every year like in glory days, and when that failed, here we are.

They need to be honest with themselves and the timeline before being able to get back to contender status and they won't do that.

There's been plenty longer and I understand what you are saying but a big part of the Flyers problems stem from holding on to the pre-salary cap era.

Almost 25 years ago John LeClair was making $9 mill/yr, or the equivalent of more than $15,487,095 in today's money. Better than the best players in the league make today. Quite simply they outspent other teams .. every .. year. to win every year. That was an option in that era but that method of competing is long gone.

The Flyers went 7 years without a 2nd round draft pick (1999-2005) because if they needed someone they would buy them from someone else, every year.

Keith Jones played during that era before the salary cap and Briere was almost 30 when it came into effect. Think about that, the first time Keith Jones ever had to seriously think about the Salary Cap in 55 years was last year, as one of the men in charge.

Think about that. Heading into Briere's 2nd full season, overseeing 2 offseasons already, the Flyers remain the 3rd worst cap situation in the league at -803,000, refusing to fully rebuild because they want to win now.

They have been bad for a long time and for the fans who see other teams be become bad and come out the other side it looks like they are rebuilding but they continue to plug holes in the boat instead of letting it sink so it can be rebuilt.

The Flyers have not changed their ways, at the core, since the cap came about which is why Holmgren had a few successful years until he spent every cap dollar and every draft pick and left Hextall a wasteland. Hextall cleaned it up but hadn't built a winner so in came "bias for action" where they spent every resource to win, every year like in glory days, and when that failed, here we are.

They need to be honest with themselves and the timeline before being able to get back to contender status and they won't do that.
- Flyers_01

I agree with this.

They need to be honest with themselves and the timeline before being able to get back to contender status and they won't do that.
- Flyers_01

There is no doubt that they won't do that. The question is really why won't they.

You know how flawed that is. So what because Briere was playing in and after the salary cap has no clue. So what than every gm in the nhl can't be legitimate. Barry Trotz played, coached and now a gm and hailed for completely revamping the Preds and having one of the best off-seasons ever.
I'm willing to let Briere find his way. The guy became a Flyer and has lived ìt since then, I get he'll atleast try to do what's best to have them good again.

There is no doubt that they won't do that. The question is really why won't they.
- MJL

You know how flawed that is. So what because Briere was playing in and after the salary cap has no clue. So what than every gm in the nhl can't be legitimate. Barry Trotz played, coached and now a gm and hailed for completely revamping the Preds and having one of the best off-seasons ever.
I'm willing to let Briere find his way. The guy became a Flyer and has lived ìt since then, I get he'll atleast try to do what's best to have them good again.
- RaoulDuke88

The issue is what they feel is best for them to be good again. It's the NHL, there is no try. In the words of Yoda, do or don't do. No participation trophies.

The issue is what they feel is best for them to be good again. It's the NHL, there is no try. In the words of Yoda, do or don't do. No participation trophies.
- MJL

I know there isn't. I appreciate a Yoda reference. Honestly next off-season is his measuring stick. Money available all the buy outs and contracts coming up.
I want to see Bonk I hope he gets a few games.

I know there isn't. I appreciate a Yoda reference. Honestly next off-season is his measuring stick. Money available all the buy outs and contracts coming up.
I want to see Bonk I hope he gets a few games.
- RaoulDuke88

You said it but you don't even realize it. Next off season, money available. That's the issue. That is the problem.

You know how flawed that is. So what because Briere was playing in and after the salary cap has no clue. So what than every gm in the nhl can't be legitimate. Barry Trotz played, coached and now a gm and hailed for completely revamping the Preds and having one of the best off-seasons ever.
I'm willing to let Briere find his way. The guy became a Flyer and has lived ìt since then, I get he'll atleast try to do what's best to have them good again.
- RaoulDuke88

I said Briere had experienced the pre-cap NHL as a player so he knew how things were done before the cap and even then most of his post-cap experience was with Paul Holmgren who spent like a drunken sailor.

I could even suggest that life under Paul Holmgren was his biggest exposure to the salary cap and the "Flyers way" followed by Chuck Fletcher. Who are Danny's positive influences?

Trotz has continuously been a coach or GM of multiple teams since the salary cap started. He's the last person you want to compare to the Flyers front office.

Keith Jones - 0 years coaching, 0 years front office exp, 0 desire to be in the front office.
Briere - 1 year of special assistant to Chuck Fletcher. The Flyers wouldn't let Briere near even the phantoms before promoting him to Chuck's gopher.

Can you not see the difference? How messed up this is? Hire people who come from successful franchises. The Flyers look for mainly alumni.

Bill Meltzer: Quick Hits: Flyers Daily, TIFH
- bmeltzer

- as far as moving up history shows that rarely happens. Also if the flyers were Truely rebuilding, they wouldn't have had to try in vain to move up. Why doesn't this ever seem to get addressed?

- perceived value of players. flyers clearly over rate their players on a bottom feeding team. the GM has already stated as much.

- to get elite talent you need to draft it. in order to put yourself in that spot you need to bottom out. flyers will never ever do that by design.

- torts will get an ext imo. unless they just flat out stink and you can see they quit.

- talking about TK. Need a direction preferably before the season or at least 1st month. Bill thinking maybe 4 or 5 year deal for higher cap hit. What benefit does that bring to the flyers who are "rebuilding"? I do not see any upside to bringing him back seeing where the flyers are at currently and the future. flyers already missed the boat on trading him.

- laughton. JM thinks he brings so much to the organization and wouldn't move him unless a great deal. both make all the excuses why he should stay. so funny for a rebuilding team. not a ton of players who brings what he does says Bill. All the flyers talking points covered.

- mentality of tanking. brings a losing mentality. culture baby. well flyers been losing for decades.

- says half in on a rebuild. there is no halfway. you either do or you don't.

- drafting a point or bergeron is all luck. cant wait around for that. best way is through the draft. need to take risks via a recchi type trade.

maybe it is me, just cracks me up how anyone can defend this organization and their philosophies in any fashion as we sit here today.

Extend Torts? I used to watch almost every game each season. The Hakstol to Torts era has dropped me down to watching at best, five games a year. If Torts would be extended, I’m not sure I’d care if the Flyers moved to a different region of the country.

Extend Torts? I used to watch almost every game each season. The Hakstol to Torts era has dropped me down to watching at best, five games a year. If Torts would be extended, I’m not sure I’d care if the Flyers moved to a different region of the country.
- Shrike

that is just my opinion as of today.

If they re-sign TK instead of getting some asset for our best player, the naysayers are proven right.

Bill Meltzer: Quick Hits: Flyers Daily, TIFH
- bmeltzer

2022 (2021 actually) : In need of salary cap space, the Flyers trade defenseman Shayne Gostisbehere and both second-round (Artem Duda) and seventh-round (Miguel Tourigny) draft picks to the Arizona Coyotes. The only return to the Flyers is Philadelphia not having to retain any salary on Gostibehere.

---------------

To be fair, you should include why he was traded, Risto, or are you saving that for tommorrow?

https://phillysportsnetwo...for-ristolainen-bad-idea/

or as one article put it :
https://www.nbcsportsphil...ristolainen-trade/186232/

A little stronger of a take came from The Athletic's instant draft grades:

"Finally, a win for Buffalo. A MASSIVE win for Buffalo.

"[...]

"You’ve got to be bad and illogical to make an F trade. And my friends, guess what we have here? The Flyers provide."

Here's the thing, this isn't hindsight. This was an oncoming train that anyone who was looking saw coming. This is Flyers thinking in a nutshell. Get a big body who hits somebody, win. It doesn't speak well of DB's mentor.

There is no doubt that they won't do that. The question is really why won't they.
- MJL

I think the answer is they don't have to.

The mighty Broad Street Bullies were once a well respected, even feared franchise. They've taken a bit of a tumble, landing in the region of somewhat of a laughing stock of the NHL.

Locally here in Rocky land, the company has a well-established marketing team and will continue to sell and market the team effectively. People are still buying season tickets, jerseys, and the rest of it. Essentially the Philadelphia Flyers are a successful business.

I think the answer is they don't have to.

The mighty Broad Street Bullies were once a well respected, even feared franchise. They've taken a bit of a tumble, landing in the region of somewhat of a laughing stock of the NHL.

Locally here in Rocky land, the company has a well-established marketing team and will continue to sell and market the team effectively. People are still buying season tickets, jerseys, and the rest of it. Essentially the Philadelphia Flyers are a successful business.
- Pixote Andolini

A successful division of a major multinational telecommunications and entertainment conglomerate that doesn't need the Flyers to win, just people to tune in and buy merchandise.

They aren't selling hockey, they are selling programming for a time slot.

I just don't get being satisfied with just making a profit. You have a product that has loyal consumers. You could make a lot more money if the team was better. In my opinion the asset is poorly managed in both a business sense and a hockey sense. It is propped up by a loyal fanbase.

The company needs to get their s%$t together and support the fan.

A successful division of a major multinational telecommunications and entertainment conglomerate that doesn't need the Flyers to win, just people to tune in and buy merchandise.

They aren't selling hockey, they are selling programming for a time slot.
- Flyers_01

BINGO!!! Business as usual for Comcast's ownership of the Flyers.

Not only do I not see them trading Laughton, I fully expect them to extend this critical core player next summer.

You said it but you don't even realize it. Next off season, money available. That's the issue. That is the problem.
- MJL

Ding, ding, ding, exactly!

I can’t wait until they pick 12th, trade one of the later firsts for a player in his late 20s and then go on to massively overpay a 2C and a 2/3D in free agency.

It’s the Flyers way and, spoiler alert, it’s not going to work.

Not only do I not see them trading Laughton, I fully expect them to extend this critical core player next summer.
- BiggE

along with RP, said that a while ago as well.

IMO Comcast would make A LOT more money if the team was a juggernaut and competing for the Stanley cup every year.
I think Comcast wants to win the cup but they don’t know how.
Instead of hiring hockey people to run the flyers they hire business CEO’s then hire a hockey team president to rebrand and market the team.
I think Keith Jones and DB could be successful if they hadn’t got caught up in the hype.
It’s not the flyers players fault they were winning games earlier in the season and end up exceeding expectations. For me therein lies the problem.
The or thinks the team is now better than they actually are and a few additions and changes and they will be right there.
The problem is most fans who pay attention know better.
The old hardcore fanbase is going to dwindle year by year and the team will be seen as the NHL franchise in the dollar bin at a second rate yard sale.
People were hoping Hextall was finally the guy to bring some stability to the team. That regime had its problems but honestly cleaning up the cap mess and not trading Jake and Giroux in hindsight hurt Hextall moving forward.
Being in Fletcher who was from the good ole boys club who was a patsy and was a willing participant in the bias for action club.
Bring in Briere and Jones. Say the right things guy Keith Jones pulls out his inner politician and tells each group what they want to hear.
If I was a player on the flyers you better believe I know the team isn’t even close to be a Stanley cup contender.
So when Keith Jones tells them don’t listen to what I tell the fanbase we aren’t rebuilding we want to make the playoffs I have to ask myself what good does that do?
Then the final nail in the coffin is the coach yanks the chain of guys he doesn’t like.
Any thought of extending torts needs to be squashed by season ticket holders. The front needs to be told emphatically that if Torts gets extended we walk.

I really want to see DB be successful but his actions show him as walking the thin red line. Try and be successful and reach the playoffs without making the tough decisions.
TK needs to get traded. I don’t care how great Laughton is in the locker room. Someone else needs to step up and be great in the locker room because he is gone.
I would tell torts if he keeps yanking the crank of Couturier, Frost, Farabee etc then he will be demoted to film reviewer popcorn maker in the team suite.
I’m with some of you other guys. I’ll tune in here and there to watch Michkov but that’s about it.
This offseason really put a bad taste in my mouth.

We talk about this like it is super hard. But really it is not that hard of a plan.

- Move Konecny and Laughton to gain more assets

- Put team in position to draft in top 5 for 2025 and 2026 where there are top centers who could be top line guys.( Hagens and McKenna)

- Do not tie up money into any long term deals right now

- If you do move Farabee or Frost it needs to be a good hockey trade, not just a trade for the sake of a trade

- Listen on pretty much everyone but Michkov.

- At TDL reevaluate team and look to see what assets could be guys to bring more assets or pieces.

I really don't think it is that hard. Just takes the right person to execute it. With all the picks, if they could gain maybe some prospects or young close to NHL players, this team could reshape their core and start to look like a team with promise.

IMO Comcast would make A LOT more money if the team was a juggernaut and competing for the Stanley cup every year.
I think Comcast wants to win the cup but they don’t know how.
Instead of hiring hockey people to run the flyers they hire business CEO’s then hire a hockey team president to rebrand and market the team.
I think Keith Jones and DB could be successful if they hadn’t got caught up in the hype.
It’s not the flyers players fault they were winning games earlier in the season and end up exceeding expectations. For me therein lies the problem.
The or thinks the team is now better than they actually are and a few additions and changes and they will be right there.
The problem is most fans who pay attention know better.
The old hardcore fanbase is going to dwindle year by year and the team will be seen as the NHL franchise in the dollar bin at a second rate yard sale.
People were hoping Hextall was finally the guy to bring some stability to the team. That regime had its problems but honestly cleaning up the cap mess and not trading Jake and Giroux in hindsight hurt Hextall moving forward.
Being in Fletcher who was from the good ole boys club who was a patsy and was a willing participant in the bias for action club.
Bring in Briere and Jones. Say the right things guy Keith Jones pulls out his inner politician and tells each group what they want to hear.
If I was a player on the flyers you better believe I know the team isn’t even close to be a Stanley cup contender.
So when Keith Jones tells them don’t listen to what I tell the fanbase we aren’t rebuilding we want to make the playoffs I have to ask myself what good does that do?
Then the final nail in the coffin is the coach yanks the chain of guys he doesn’t like.
Any thought of extending torts needs to be squashed by season ticket holders. The front needs to be told emphatically that if Torts gets extended we walk.

I really want to see DB be successful but his actions show him as walking the thin red line. Try and be successful and reach the playoffs without making the tough decisions.
TK needs to get traded. I don’t care how great Laughton is in the locker room. Someone else needs to step up and be great in the locker room because he is gone.
I would tell torts if he keeps yanking the crank of Couturier, Frost, Farabee etc then he will be demoted to film reviewer popcorn maker in the team suite.
I’m with some of you other guys. I’ll tune in here and there to watch Michkov but that’s about it.
This offseason really put a bad taste in my mouth.
- bird_dog_pa

I told copelal that his/her rant wasn't really that long, comparatively speaking

Branding and marketing are Comcast's core competency. That makes them money. That's what they are good at and have some of the best people in those fields (who are not Flyers alumni). Makes sense that's what they would lean into.

Nobody at Comcast get's fired or misses a bonus if the Flyers don't win the Stanley cup. I doubt it's even a line item on an agenda in a meeting. Unless someone in corp is a hockey fan all that matters is the ink at the bottom red or black.

Briere even came out after the deadline and said his personal focus was on making the playoffs.

The Flyers are already bargain bin. They are overpaying 3rd pairing d and 4th line 30+ players to be their core.